Is Minion Block a meaningful mechanic to keep in the game?

DrCyanide·May 17, 2016·75 votes·7,355 views

Generally speaking, I don't hear or see people intentionally playing around Minion Block.

What happens more often is that you get caught unexpectedly on some minions, which causes the pathing to freak out, which leads to you standing still for a second or two instead of closing the gap for the kill (or making your great escape), and ultimately leads to frustration for the person snagged rather than a feeling of skill for the other player.

I could see minions walking out of the way of ally champions being used skillfully, to move minions out of the way of skillshots to deny last hits by mages, but I'm just not seeing how the current mechanic adds anything meaningful to the game.

48 Comments

Vistha KaiMay 17, 201623 votes

If blocking worked like it should, then sure, why not.

But it's not working.

I mean, until some time ago(or is that still a thing?) you could trap somebody with a fucking pink ward placed next to a wall.

YfrappefortMay 17, 201614 votes

I am ok with getting blocked by enemies minions. They are meant to cause you trouble. Getting blocked by your own creeps makes no sense tough. Aren't they our allies?

Darkslayer85May 18, 20164 votes

6.11: Report Minion Option

Next game the offending minion will not be on your team, you will have a different minion instead which looks like Draven.

President Swa1nMay 18, 20162 votes

Rito pls, I've had too many offensive minions on my team and it's keeping me in Bronze IV :(

Mecha MaIphiteMay 18, 20161 votes

Preemptively denying your next opponent CS

SykeElevenMay 18, 20162 votes

Then you could just stand on top of your minions and deny the enemy cs?

Gnart Even CloseMay 18, 20161 votes

you'd be taking lots of damage for it, and there are other ways to work around it. for example, you could push minions out of the way so that they wouldn't block you but you wouldn't be able to stop cs

MrBuffingtonMay 18, 20161 votes

It's supposed to be so you can't go hyper aggressive in lane and just retreat back through your minions without any harm. It's still pretty wonky though.

Nameless VoiceMay 17, 20169 votes

Ghostcrawler talked about it on his ask.fm:

It creates a lot of potentially interesting situations. A great League player should be able to quickly analyze the situation on the screen at any given moment, including the position of minions. Will they keep you from reaching a target? Will they keep you from escaping? Will they block a skill shot?

The game would be a lot easier if you could just ignore the tactical implications of minions and just worry about the strategic implications (i.e. are they going to push their lane or take a tower), but we like that manipulating or responding to minion position adds an extra level of mastery. We don't want the game to be mastered too easily, or you guys might get bored. :)

http://ask.fm/RiotGhostcrawler/answers/138349119115

However, he's really talking about minions blocking pathfinding in general, rather than the bugs that cause pathfinding to totally glitch out and make your champion immobile.

KVbqbFsC8eMay 17, 20168 votes

Yes, People could just stand directly on top of minions and deny CS if minion block didn't exist.

Remlap1223May 17, 20164 votes

Oh I get it. Standing on top of Thresh's lantern to keep his ally from dashing to him is perfectly acceptable counterplay, but standing on top of minions to deny farm while taking damage is crossing the line.

LemurKickMay 18, 20167 votes

Blocking one ability is very different from denying farm.

Chaotic ReksMay 18, 20163 votes

but that comes at the cost of taking damage, even tho it seems very little at first, the damage will add up quickly unless you have decent sustain

KVbqbFsC8eMay 18, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Oh I get it. Standing on top of Thresh's lantern to keep his ally from dashing to him is perfectly acceptable counterplay, but standing on top of minions to deny farm while taking damage is crossing the line.

Thats not even remotely comparable.

Gnart Even CloseMay 18, 20161 votes

they could have it push minions out of the way instead. win win

lilpokflufMay 17, 20165 votes

Because they would have to give fizz and kassidin real passives. Is that what you want?

DrCyanideMay 17, 201615 votes

Fizz already has reduced damage from physical attacks as his passive, Kassadin takes 15% reduced magic damage.

Supreme Senpai69May 18, 20164 votes

Janna would lose a small amount of power on her W, but honestly I don't see that as a problem considering her performance in games.

billxxMay 18, 20162 votes

Gee great passives. Kassadin would be played less than ur got

Crazy ChatterMay 17, 20164 votes

It forces you to be aware of your environment.

MotrColtMay 17, 20161 votes

This is really the main thing, minions are already pretty much ignored in fights past level 9 or so when you can fight someone even in a large creep wave without noticing it too much. Creep block makes it so you still have to focus them somewhat

DrCyanideMay 17, 20164 votes

I heard someone suggest that instead of blocking movement all together ally minions could slow you. In my opinion, that would feel significantly better, while still having players need to be aware of the minions.

XeroKimoMay 17, 20162 votes

If allied minions slow you, chasers would be able to catch up to you much easier should you be running through minions.

DrCyanideMay 17, 20164 votes

It'd still be much better than the current implementation, which is ally minions completely stop you.

XeroKimoMay 18, 20163 votes

They redirect you not completely stop you, and enemies also get redirected too

DrCyanideMay 18, 20161 votes

No, your character tried to walk around them, the minions themselves completely block you. This creates situations where you're stopped in your tracks because the minion AI moves them in a way your characters auto pathing can't figure out. Rather than completely stop you in those instances, it would be better if it slowed you.

Fondling GemsMay 18, 20161 votes

Well enemies would still get blocked by your minions, so it is similar to now but the negative impact of allied minions is reduced.

Remlap1223May 17, 20164 votes

Smite does it perfectly. You can run through your minions, but enemy minions will still block you. Let me also remind you that Smite also has full WSAD movement and not an (extremely shitty) point and click pathing system. I see no reason why Riot refuses to change this outside of pure laziness. I guess they could also asspull "DESIGN PHILOSOPHY!!!1!"

Blue Moon WolfMay 18, 20162 votes

The only real benefits I've seen is when you are running away from the enemy who is faster than you, Minions can slow get in there way to give you a few more seconds and it gives more counter play against champs like Blitzcrank who have a strong skillshot ability which can be countered easier just by keeping at least one minion between you and him at all times. Other than that, they do seem to just get in the way mostly. One thing I wish they would do is make it so you are only blocked by enemy minions while you can run through your own no problem. Sure it would make things like summoner 6 and item 3046 a bit less useful, but in turn we would have less issues with your minion getting in the way, causing you to get caught by the enemy and killed.

BloodyTomponMay 18, 20162 votes

I actually like it. Sometimes things that are frustrating are actually good for games. In this case it creates some skill expression and gameplay.

WimbledofyMay 18, 20161 votes

how is any skill involved when my minions completely trap me and autopathing bugs out?

BloodyTomponMay 18, 20164 votes

Bugs are different

Chaotic ReksMay 18, 20161 votes

because change is good Khazix

EvilMerodachMay 18, 20162 votes

I saw a pro-play video of our bird and savior Azir do a pretty good minion block, or, wall block (same thing cause his wall is coded as minions...like everything ~~on his kit~~) and it looked fully intentional. Like you could even see a little delay in his cast while he waited for the line-up to be just right.

Seen some Rivens do some shit too.

Normal play, it's pretty much a bug and never deliberate on either side. Pro play, it makes some interesting things happen, and does actually look/feel calculated.

Unsure if it should be kept around purely for that reason though. But there's also summoner 6 item 3046 Hecarim etc that people have already said. They'd need reworked or deleted if we delete creep block..same as back when dodge was removed, with Jax Sivir item 3047 getting changed a good bit.

Hey look... item 3046 was always a problem child.... =D D:

Gnart Even CloseMay 18, 20162 votes

i feel scummy when i see people get creepblocked, but of course I don't want to lose so I take advantage of it anyways. it doesn't feel skillful, it just feels like the other person got really unlucky

Fondling GemsMay 17, 20161 votes

There is a video on this by Jeremy "Gaming" Curious on YouTube. Normally I wouldn't just link people to videos but it is very well done and makes much clearer arguments (both for and against) than I could.

Wiggle Dat ButtMay 17, 20161 votes

Well if they did remove it, they would have to change things like Fizz and other things that allow unhindered movement.

Creating extra work at Riot is a NO-NO.

ParoeMay 17, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wiggle Dat Butt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OvOE9vTI,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-05-17T18:14:26.104+0000)

Well if they did remove it, they would have to change things like Fizz and other things that allow unhindered movement.

Creating extra work at Riot is a NO-NO.

Actually, the argument for removing creep-block is only for allied creeps. so you would move through your own, but enemy creeps would hinder you. Also creep block only matters, really, if youre big and slow. Faster normal sized champions rarely have an issue with it.

World EnderMay 17, 20161 votes

I think it would be interesting if Riot turned off minion block for one patch (and announced it) and analyzed the results of how people played differently. Then maybe they could come to a more informed decision of its impact on the game.

Fondling GemsMay 18, 20161 votes

That is what pbe testing is for, not live servers

QjTHqo3RTqMay 17, 20161 votes

Abusing minion block to kite is something I abuse heavily when someone goes behind my wave, if minion block was removed, it'd remove a skill I've learned and mastered as a safety mechanism

AnielaMay 18, 20161 votes

I think it's sort of an artificial difficulty in the game in that as much as it makes sense, it doesn't really add any meaningful depth to the game. Minion damage is different, of course, but minion block sort of needlessly justifies the presence of things like PD passive, Ghost effect, Hecarim's thing, Fizz's thing, etc.

"Let's give you a way to avoid a pointless mechanic that shouldn't exist in the first place!"

If they really want it they should make it like Garen's thingo where it gets slowed when he's passing through things. Assuming he still has that, well. I don't think anyone gets proud or excited when creepblock pretty much entirely sabotages their thing, or turns a good play into something that looks fresh out of Wood5.

9 inches of loveMay 18, 20161 votes

at the beginning of the season they said they will fix it but they made it worse, their programmers are really bad like most of the people working for riot they can't do their job right so unless they fire everyone working for them don't expect a fix

Pale PirateMay 18, 20161 votes

Is Minion Block a meaningful mechanic to keep in the game?

Not if they don't fix it.

NyanzaMay 18, 20161 votes

I use it all the time to run away.

PoskeMay 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Generally speaking, I don't hear or see people intentionally playing around Minion Block.

What happens more often is that you get caught unexpectedly on some minions, which causes the pathing to freak out, which leads to you standing still for a second or two instead of closing the gap for the kill (or making your great escape), and ultimately leads to frustration for the person snagged rather than a feeling of skill for the other player.

I could see minions walking out of the way of ally champions being used skillfully, to move minions out of the way of skillshots to deny last hits by mages, but I'm just not seeing how the current mechanic adds anything meaningful to the game.

If you cant be blocked by minions then you also cant block them

As a person WHO really enjoys blocking minions (Most of high elo players manipulate waves this way)

I am one of those 1% who used to block the first minion wave

PLZ DONT TAKE THIS AWAY FROM ME TO );