The best way to fix yasuo/assassins: fix the mages!

DW Diana·May 31, 2018·4 votes·1,132 views

Hi all,

So just my opinion, but remember when some mages used to counter assassins? Remember how Malzahar was the go to counter for Yasuo/Zed? Now imagine if they reverted him to be this again. Imagine Lissandra, with a new passive and buffed abilities, being able to lock down these hypermobile hyper carries. Think of all those mages that used to stop these champions for having free farm/snowballing. Wouldn't it be good to have them back? It's not as if they didnt have counters themselves, so just bring them back.

8 Comments

Handy Sandy May 31, 20182 votes

you can't just buff malzahar his kit is toxic and needs a full rework. When he's strong, all he does is push the wave harder than anyone else and then ult you if you try to fight him, no interaction and feels terrible to play against.

I haven't seen Lissandra when she was strong but I imagine it'd be similar, she needs a small rework imo.

Assassins need nerfs instead of buffing mages

DW DianaMay 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

you can't just buff malzahar his kit is toxic and needs a full rework. When he's strong, all he does is push the wave harder than anyone else and then ult you if you try to fight him, no interaction and feels terrible to play against.

I haven't seen Lissandra when she was strong but I imagine it'd be similar, she needs a small rework imo.

Assassins need nerfs instead of buffing mages

Pffft, who said to buff him? His kit used be designed around his ability to shut down hyper-mobile champions and was balanced by him losing to any mage with poke. His push also used to be far worse because he relied on just his E and Q to push (which is why poke mages used to do so well against him).

Now he just spams spells to get the voidlings out to try and clear the wave before they get 1 shot. His kit is only "toxic" now because riot changed him. Revert is far easier and will resolve the issues in his kit for both my post and yours (though a rework later would be nice :P).

Edit: Now the kids have stopped fighting! Here's a list of champions that used to counter Malzahar. You'll notice most of them are rarely played anymore!

Anivia Fiddlesticks Karma Karthus Lissandra Lux Morgana Orianna Syndra Swain Taliyah Viktor Velkoz Xerath Veigar Ziggs Zilean AurelionSol

All of these used to go even if not win out against Malzahar because they had ABILITIES that could kill his voidlings and/or poke him out of lane while clearing faster then him. They all used to be able to farm from range safely while also poking at him.

These in turn could be countered by champions the were designed to close such gaps/tank the damage/poke back like TwistedFate Vladimir Katarina Ekko Ahri Diana Fizz Galio Jayce Kassadin Mordekaiser Yasuo Zed Talon Akali Leblanc

These were of course countered by Malzahar Lissandra Vladimir while being skill matchups against most of the others.

See this is how league used to be balanced. Take away champions like Malz and Lissandra and champions like Yasuo and assassins will run rampant meaning a large number of mages don't get played which means their counters don't get played which means you end up with only being viable if you CAN fight assassin's/Yasuo meaning you play an assassin/yasuo.

Bring back Malz and the other hyper mobile champion counters and then the balance is restored.

Beacon AcademyJun 1, 20181 votes

Current Malzahar: EQ + Voidlings = fast push due to bonus minion damage via voidlings and E resets.

Old Malzahar: E + Auto attacks = slow push due to having to bounce one at a time using autos

His spells were not low mana spammables pre-rework, so he couldn't just use Q all willy nilly just to push.

Even if he had his old Voidling out, there was no bonus damage to minions and because the damage scaled with level and bonus AD (Which he didn't usually build), the damage to minions early game was not high enough to push fast.

Current Malzahar: Shield and easy wave clear makes him near impossible to gank if he isn't stupid.

Old Malzahar: Lacked shield and therefore the laner simply had to let Malzahar push and he'd be exposed to jungle ganks or lose exp.

Current Malzahar: 4% Playrate (2% according to champgg) with a 49-50% Winrate Still hated for his "toxic" kit

Old Malzahar: 4% Playrate with a 52-53% Winrate He was a mid range burst mage with DoT properties capable of being passive or aggressive while slowing down snowball champions by forcing them to play at his pace and therefore was a recommended champ along with Annie for beginners if you wanted to learn how to lane.

Being the easy shutdown for Yasuo/Katarina/Leblanc/etc. helped make him a bit more likable as well.

Please don't confuse the two for each other just because they are similar.

And î oopJun 1, 20181 votes

in any way lissandra needs some MAJOR changes

DW DianaJun 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=mordred darktrop,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ou5eWUsG,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-01T21:48:17.394+0000)

in any way lissandra needs some MAJOR changes

Her kit is actually pretty good, but the scaling and that passive...

And î oopJun 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ou5eWUsG,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-06-01T23:42:42.347+0000)

Her kit is actually pretty good, but the scaling and that passive...

yeah passive can change anything but its gonna be hard to make such interactive passive and some added stuff to her spells would give her more space for different plays and eventually a chance to be seen once in 1239819023 years on competitions and championships. Imagine just adding this to e: you leave a sculpture after recasting e and if someone shatters enemies around are brittled and damages, this small change gives such diversity to e you can use it and imediately recast it in hope of enemy trying to hit you etc

DW DianaJun 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=mordred darktrop,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ou5eWUsG,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-02T14:50:29.744+0000)

yeah passive can change anything but its gonna be hard to make such interactive passive and some added stuff to her spells would give her more space for different plays and eventually a chance to be seen once in 1239819023 years on competitions and championships. Imagine just adding this to e: you leave a sculpture after recasting e and if someone shatters enemies around are brittled and damages, this small change gives such diversity to e you can use it and imediately recast it in hope of enemy trying to hit you etc

Tbh I would like to see her passive work alongside her engage kit/cc kit. Something along the lines of doing more damage to slowed/cc'ed champions.

Her abilities themselves aren't actually that bad, they just lack actual damage. Much like Malz she has to take electrocute to have kill pressure with her ult combo, and even then you tend to also require ignite and them to be below 1/2 hp for the kill unless ahead by a couple of 1000 gold.

I do like the idea of her E leave an area of chilled ground behind it when you activate the teleport (heard the idea somewhere, can't remember where) but tbh for the most part her kit does exactly what it's mean to minus the damage and a decent passive.

And î oopJun 3, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ou5eWUsG,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-02T17:13:55.353+0000)

Tbh I would like to see her passive work alongside her engage kit/cc kit. Something along the lines of doing more damage to slowed/cc'ed champions.

Her abilities themselves aren't actually that bad, they just lack actual damage. Much like Malz she has to take electrocute to have kill pressure with her ult combo, and even then you tend to also require ignite and them to be below 1/2 hp for the kill unless ahead by a couple of 1000 gold.

I do like the idea of her E leave an area of chilled ground behind it when you activate the teleport (heard the idea somewhere, can't remember where) but tbh for the most part her kit does exactly what it's mean to minus the damage and a decent passive.

agreed, a different passive could change everything and make her amazing. the funny thing is she is supposed to be burst mage but she needs to cast all spells ( sometimes q multyple times ) to burst someone XD. most people forget that and think she is like a battle tank