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New Materies ideas for our support friends.

Sherogarth··56 votes·3,166 views

This time I want to propose less radical changes to support gameplay in form of two new masteries for our poor friends:

Tier 1 Resolve Tree

Wards of Wisdom Every time you place or kill a ward you are granted small amount of EXP (placing wards at your base give no exp). This amount is increased based on diffrence between average lvl of your team and your lvl. Ranks 1-5 increases amount of EXP.

Some notes: Point of this mastery is to reward playeres (not only supports) for warding and "dewarding". It's bad for solo laners and i'm ok with that. It's placed in tier 1 of Resolve tree so it can be easily picked up by almost everyone who is not fully dmg oriented. I'm ok with other roles picking it up because it can finally encourage them to participate in vision war and thats a wet dream of every support main xD.

Tier 6(last) Resolve Tree

Warding Bi... i mean "Tactical Visioner" Increases maximum amount of charges on your sightstone items by 2 and increases all ward duration by 30s. Also alows you to place up to 4 (5 after 12 lvl) stealth wards on map. (Optional, not sure in not overloaded) Killing your ward allows your team to see it's area for 5s after it's destruction.

Notes: The reason I placed it into Resolve Tree is to lower possible abuse by dmg orinted champs in pro play. For utility supports it really not big deal if they are 0/18/12 or 0/12/18 in masteries. Im ok with utility junglers and some tanks picking it up. The only problems i see with this are that it can become a mandatory pick for every support and LeeSin because he is Lee Sin and he can pick masteries from every tree an be K (I'm sure he see no problem at all in this).

So thats it. Thanks for reading, leave some thoughts and see you :D.

40 Comments

Ruin Lance17 votes

"wards of wisdom" would have to have a cooldown or something because someone could just buy a sightstone and spam wards for free xp

FastAsHeck6 votes

yea needs a cooldown on ward placing, like up to 3 every minute

not for ward destroying though

morris118 votes

I think I have another idea for this.

Experience gain increases the further away you are from base.

This way, spamming sightstone from inhibitors to spawn give next to no experience, and taking risks to deep ward into the enemy jungle gives high rewards as well.

Ruin Lance1 votes

that's a good idea

Voluug137 votes

Also giving it charges like FQC's gold passive could be good too.

Actually both.

  • No exp by warding in your base
  • more exp for warding farther specially on their jungle
  • 2-3 charges with Xs of recharge time
  • Sightstone increases the exp for destroying wards?
ExhibitD2 votes

I think you could just make the mastery run on a charge system and it would be just fine, no need to the stipulation of warding further from base.

Doing that would really hurt you for warding defensively in your jungle mid game and really hurt you if you ever fall behind because the enemy's support will gaining much more exp than you will for the same mastery, further increasing the snowball effect.

I do agree that there shouldn't be any exp for warding inside your base though.

Sherogarth1 votes

Not really. Just make that sightstone sells for 50%. This way if u bought sightstone and spam wards and u are not underleveled then u just traded 400g for exp value of 3 minions... great deal :D.

Ok, now i get it. I feel really dumb... I forgot that fountain recharges sightstone.

Added "(placing wards at your base give no exp)."

LankPants10 votes

Warding Bi... i mean "Tactical Visioner" Increases maximum amount of charges on your sightstone items by 2 and increases all ward duration by 30s. Also alows you to place up to 4 (5 after 12 lvl) stealth wards on map. (Optional, not sure in not overloaded) Killing your ward allows your team to see it's area for 5s after it's destruction.

That's not an optional mastery, it simply outclasses everything else if you can build a sightstone.

At high levels (mostly competitive) that mastery would be mandatory on not only supports, but also junglers. Between the duration and extra wards you're more or less doubling the amount of warding possible from a sightstone, which is insanely powerful.

Sherogarth1 votes

So?

We already have 100% crit Yasuo after item 3087 and item 1018, tank/bruiser MasterYi with item 3930 + item 3124, Zed with ult on top of his ult item 3147, 5.0 as KogMaw and so on...

I'm absolutely fine with something "insanely powerful" for more utility oriented guys. Also vision wars are most exciting things in current pro games xD.

LankPants6 votes

All of these are terrible analogies because you're comparing champion and item power to masteries. None of those things come close to the potential for an extra 4 wards on the map anyway.

Hell with item 2301 being an item I could even see midlane mages opting into sightstone in competitive play and I really see no reason why top laners wouldn't too.

Introducing a mastery like this would kill mastery diversity at the top level, because the mastery itself is not only the most powerful keystone, it's a keystone so absurdly powerful that it outpowers entire trees. Specing this keystone alone would be more powerful than the entire cunning tree.

Sherogarth2 votes

Ok, you are probably right. I hate this balancing around pro players but i know how valuable vision is to them and how easily they adapt thier picks to abuse everything that is not abuse-proof even if that means having only adc that deals dmg and 4 warding dogs in thier team :(.

Anyway as I stated those are only ideas. I really think that "warding keystone" is, in its core, good idea but probably it needs toned down implementation.

Thanks for comment anyway.

theArtifacts2 votes

I think giving experience for warding might be an issue. Giving bonus experience for killing wards is a great idea though and would work well with the 5 seconds of vision following.

Rozair1 votes

I think it's great because supports are always the lowest Level

theArtifacts1 votes

{quoted}

I think it's great because supports are always the lowest Level

Yes but other champs will abuse it and as such it will become OP and get nerfed. However - not many champs aside from supports take the sweeper. So giving bonus exp on that seems better than on both.

Seenan1 votes

{quoted}

Yes but other champs will abuse it and as such it will become OP and get nerfed. However - not many champs aside from supports take the sweeper. So giving bonus exp on that seems better than on both.

Could give a mastery that's deeper in the right tree (Resolve?) for getting exp from warding/killing wards

RisenDarkKnight2 votes

I like "Wards of Wisdom," but "Tactical Visioner" is a mastery that every high elo support would have to take and would feel terrible about. No one really wants to give up Thunderlord's or Windspeaker's for a warding keystone, but team player's would.

The Rewritten2 votes

Or how about this:

Wards give a small continuous stream of exp while they are actively placed on the map. Wards inside your own base do not give exp (or alternatively, wards give continuous exp based on how much fog of war they eliminate)

Destroying an enemy ward grants some exp.

what you deserve1 votes

I actually like the idea of a mastery that adds charges to sightstone items. I'd exclude Tracker's Knife from that just because of Lee Sin, the Blind Monk.

Sherogarth1 votes

Tracker's Knife is already excluded because it's not a sightstone item.

mike in the box2 votes

but why? support jungles would love the mastery. poor Nunu :(

MyTeamIsAwsome1 votes

New upvote for this great idea.

JVP151 votes

I like some of it. It definitely helps vision control and some XP gain, but it doesn't really work with the gold problem. Also, wouldn't that make four keystones on the resolve tree? I feel like something would have to change on the tree. I also feel like there should be better masteries for supports, but this is a bit too extreme, especially because not all supports will be level 30 (and I feel like those people could use some help as well, just so that they learn to love support at a young level). I think I will make a post detailing my ideas for support itemization changes that will also make the Eye items seem more desirable (in certain situations).

Sherogarth1 votes

I'm sure four keystones on the resolve tree are not a problem as Rito stated that they want to introduce more keystones in future. Thunderlord and other keystones are already extreme for players under 18 lvl :(.

JVP151 votes

I meant to put this is my post, but I also loved your jokes, so when you post in the future, I just want to let you know that your jokes don't go unnoticed.

Sherogarth1 votes

Yay :D. Mom get the camera i'm funny at internetz!

FistOfSharkiesha1 votes

I like a phantom ward sort of thing. "Destroying an enemy ward creates a shadow ward in that location for 30 seconds. It has slightly reduced radius and does not contribute to your ward cap."

Too old for this1 votes

If I am granted XP (no matter how little) for every ward that I place what is to stop me from spamming my sightstone wards in my fountain? Item keeps refreshing charges and I keep spamming. Even if they would make the mastery not work within the fountain (or base) it could still be abused.

I love the idea in general as support main but +1 or 2 wards on sightsone and + time the wards actually last would be a significant buff all on its own. The only issue with talents like this is that they are not choice talents. This turns into a must have when playing support so it loses meaning. Again, I am all for more support talents and I like your idea in general but more thought would need to be put into it if it is to get implemented.

Sherogarth1 votes

I know and i posted this as a general idea for new masteries. Imo Rito should allow players to post some of thier ideas, pick best from them and then let playerbase vote for one or two then at the end implement them :D.

Leafie1 votes

{quoted} The only problems i see with this are that it can become a mandatory pick for every support and LeeSin because he is Lee Sin and he can pick masteries from every tree an be K (I'm sure he see no problem at all in this).

Well duh he's Lee Sin. He can't see anything.

Lucifer1 votes

I just ended a game level 13, enemy support was level 14. Meanwhile, every carry was approaching level 18 or already there. This is NOT ok. We need better experience distribution. It feels so shitty playing support right now.

It Hertz When IP1 votes

Only downside I see is that (Warding Bi... i mean "Tactical Visioner") would compete with Windspeaker's Blessing on sustain supports for "mandatory keystone".

mike in the box1 votes

heck why not give gold as well for wards of wisdom.

i feel like a weaker version of Tactical Visioner would be more appropriate. Probably place it in the second teire of the ferocity tree next to Oppressor

"Tactical Visioner Also allows you to place one additional steal ward and increases all ward duration by 2s per level"

allos adding this passive to ruby sight stone would be cool

"gains one charge on kills or assists"

Mimy1 votes

Increases maximum amount of charges on your sightstone items by 2 and increases all ward duration by 30s. Also alows you to place up to 4 (5 after 12 lvl) stealth wards on map.

We as supports can only have 3 wards.. but I like the refill charges thing.

Might break LeeSin though lol

Perhaps it doesn't need to be a mastery, but more of a passive on the sight stone...

Assists grant +1 Change to Sightstone.. (Notice How I Left out KILLS) So it won't break Lee because he needs kills.. and it would help supports..

Nunya Bezwacks1 votes

or how bout no and they just go back to season 3 when supports were actually supports?

alistial1 votes

problem is that you can stay in base and buy a sightstone and start spaming the button you put sightstone on

MrEly1 votes

He wrote into the text that wouldn't be an option

Saianna1 votes

How about placing a ward gives u some cdr/ap/ad/hp/hp regen/mana/mana regen (not all of them, but some). And it increases for each active placed ward.

Partholonian1 votes

{quoted}

For utility supports it really not big deal if they are 0/18/12 or 0/12/18 in masteries.

Windseeker's is a big deal for the champions whose kits actually work with it. And in general they're already in a bad enough spot compared to the tanks (not that giving up Bond of Stone to sacrifice even more power to teammates is exactly going to help Alistar Braum Leona Nautilus either; pretty much all supports would be hurt by this change, their champions would be weaker and less fun in fights, while the vision benefits would be canceled by the opposing support "choosing" the same thing).

Any vision mastery should be no higher than tier 4 so that it can coexist with any keystone, otherwise it will cramp the pool of available supports.

And any vision mastery should probably be cunning, because it's the one tree that you can almost guarantee every support will have some points in. Putting a vision mastery in resolve would hurt aggressive utility/mage supports that want to go ferocity/cunning like Annie Zyra.

But really, the more I think about it, the more I dislike either items OR masteries "letting" you choose between champion power and vision. Because it very quickly becomes not much of a choice at all. What actually benefited supports (aside from item 3303 item 3301 item 3302, which have had their issues but are a huge improvement over what supports used to start games with) was the trinket system, where the opportunity cost of a vision related thing was... another vision related thing. Everyone can (and, to be optimal, must) contribute, but nobody can become the sacrificial goat for the whole team.

If there's too little vision on the map now, then vision options that are available to everyone should be buffed. Don't bring back ward botting. Ever. In any form.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

If anything, might as well bring back the scout mastery where warding range increases by very little.

Making that tier 1 would be too accessible to non supports/junglers, tier 3 is much better catered to people who actually need exp.

League of TLD is already bad enough. Adding a keystone where people are granted one extra charge would might as well delete mastery diversity altogether, because that's how powerful one extra charge of warding is.

Mandaari1 votes

I'm all for more support mastery options, but not these. They're in the direction of having supports get the majority of the warding done. That might be how it is currently, but IMO everyone should be equally responsible for vision control.

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