Is damage too high?

Sherogarth·Aug 28, 2016·98 votes·4,976 views

So lately I noticed that players are just exploding in this game.

It's hard to call it even dying, one cc and BOOM you are erased form existence.

Maybe thats just me, but its like this game is "too dynamic". Assassis are jumping left and right. Carries with 80-90% crit. Stacking armor reduction from items. Capped cd reduction on every caster be it ad or ap.

No wonder that everyone is building this "bruiser/tank" build if it's necessery to even survive initial dmg exchange at the beginning of team fight.

It's almost identical to those fighting games where u smash all keys in hope for some sick combo xD. Personally I always prefered strategic portion of this game, but thats just me.

So what do you guys think?

137 Comments

MarshbouyAug 28, 201631 votes

Keystones did that + infernal drake.

SaiannaAug 28, 20162 votes

And most weapons with 75 AD or 100 ability average.

Thank God Riot decided not to buff armor or magic resist in the slighest. Otherwise it'd be insane!

Downvoting me won't fix the powercreep you derps ;)

MarshbouyAug 28, 201610 votes

Yeah... noooo... only handful of items give 75 AD, and only 4 give 100 ap... EDIT: i stand corrected. Rabadons and archangels can give loads of ap, but it's not "most". especially with the nerf to ROA and the last two ap items added giving 80 and 60 AP respectively.

SteelflameAug 28, 20168 votes

I mean, Archangel's can give an insane 160+ AP on the best builds for it, which just happen to be filled with RoA (another 100 AP item), Morello (Oh look, 100 more AP), Lichbane (80! this time. Also, we are already at 30% CDR), and then you can pop all of that into a rabadon passive. Now add Blue buff for the remaining 10% CDR and +15% AP.

Starfish HAug 29, 201610 votes

Except your sacrificing early game for stacking potential. You'd have to buy tear then roa which will set you back in damage for about half the entire game. Probably by the time you get Sephra, RoA, and a Rabadon's your team would have surrendered. Also if you're gonna buy a morello you need to buy it early which counteracts the point of your build. So you'll buy a tear, a RoA and a Morello. You'll have around 160 AP with a 6200 gold build. It's not worth it as it sucks when you're underfed and it won't be effective if you're ahead compared to one Luden's and a Morello which offers more damage and helps you hit an early game powerspike.

I am RazgrizAug 29, 20162 votes

You're insisting the implication that tear+roa is an automatic defeat for your team which just isn't true at all.

SpoofghoulAug 29, 20164 votes

only 4 give 100 ap?

item 3089 item 3003 item 3285 item 3165 item 3027 item 3116 item 3041

And a handfull of 75 ad items sure only a handfull but some items have a few things which makes their damage go waaay up like LDR for example if an opponent has 500 more hp then you then at 180 total AD and beyond it gives more flat damage worth then the next highest ad item

Toplane FencerAug 29, 20162 votes

Items have been giving those stats since forever.

SaiannaAug 29, 20164 votes

item 3508

70 AD = OK'ish 20 CRIT = OK'ish 10% CDR = Too much 20% bonus CDR based on CRIT = Retarded overload 3% mana per CRIT damage = The main stat we wanted and asked

item 3812

75 AD = OK'ish 10% CDR = ... too much 15% spellvamp = that is the main stat of weapon 15% DMG taken as bleed = Too much

item 3147

75 AD = OK'ish 5% MS = OK 10 ARM PEN = Too much Nightfall ability = Main "thing" of the weapon.

item 3156

55 AD = OK 40 MR = OK 10 ARM PEN = Too much Shield = main stat of item 10% LS/SV = Too much

item 3036

50 AD = Too much 45% ARM PEN = The main stat we'd buy this item for 15% bonus physical DMG based on enemy HP = OK'ish

item 3033

50 AD = Too much GW = Main stat of weapon on top of armor penetration. Imo Overloaded usefullness 45% ARM PEN = OK

I've skipped AS / CRIT items. They are just as overloaded as those ones. I haven't added item 3072 and item 3031 cause those items hve only 1 meaning: GO FULL HAM. And both of them are pretty much a must on any ADC.

Anyways.. Well.. You have to be either blind or stupid not to see something obviously wrong with those items. In case you haven't seen anything wrong so far, check again. At bolded points, okay?

All of those bolded points mean those stats are power creep'ed Their only goal is to make you, ADC, feel ridiculously stronger. Why do I say so? Because TANK items had not underwent heavy power creep buff as AD items.

Sunfire Deadmans Plate Thornmail Tabi Boots

They are the same as they used to be (with some tiny touchup balances, like 50 HP).

ADC in older seasons had LESS AD, CDR, CRIT, AS in their builds. That much should be obvious, when for example just 1 item, Reaver, adds 2 items worth of stats.

So.. Maybe even items indeed gave those stats before, they surely gave alot less of them.

It's kinda funny because I still remember unrest and unhapinnes caused by ADC items overhaul. Most of people were saying "it's too much".. Well.. This thead is perfectly corelated to ADC update explaining why everyone (ADC) deals shitton of DMG.

Toplane FencerAug 31, 20162 votes

The lastwhisper items got nerfed in the ADC overhaul. IE has lost 10 Damage. Death's Dance is basically the same as bloodthirster, except it trades a shield and 5% lifesteal for that passive and 10%cdr. It's really not more powerful than before. Maw has been nerfed quite a lot and while it was op before it certainly isn't now. Duskblade of Draktharr is only bought by 2 adc's which shows you it isn't too much. Also, 10 ArPen on an item is too much? Reallly.. You want it to have 1 arpen or something?

Essence Reaver may sound overloaded, but it gave other adc's a chance to shine, and not just traditional ones. Many adc's don't build it.

I'm not really seeing the huge powercreep since the overhaul. Items have been nerfed back to where they belong. At the moment of the overhaul adc's were op, but I don't feel like they are now.

SaiannaAug 31, 20161 votes

Ok, I tried to reply to you seriously, but it's pointless. You do not understand what I mean. Or maybe you simply don't give a fuck.

I'm tired replying to trolls, idiots and sheeps.

Toplane FencerAug 31, 20161 votes

I said items have been giving these stats for forever. You responded to me by showing that you think items are op. They might be, but that doesn't change the fact that they have been giving these stats for forever.

Essence Reaver is the only item that gives an insane amount of stats.

SaiannaAug 31, 20161 votes

They aren't OP. You power creeped. There's a small difference.

You just don't see that 70-75 AD on so many items is simply BAD. It allows ADCs to build ridiculous amounts of AD while getting other, secondary stats as perks.

And then we have items sich as last whispers. Their only objective is to reduce armor. Then why the fk do they also have so much AD AND on top of that usefull perks built in like versus HP stacker or Rgen? Dude.. That's simply fking unfair to deal with.

Toplane FencerAug 31, 20161 votes

I'm guessing you are just riding the bandwagon here and not actually playing the game and then thinking about if adc's seemed op in your games.

SaiannaAug 31, 20161 votes

Actually, not really.

I was against ADC weapon power creep update the second I saw it (seriously. I'm not sheep here. I really believe that 5 or more AD items with 70+ AD and other stats is bad idea).
I do not mind updating weak ADC items that weren't used (even though Riot either didn't touch them or actually buffed them to stupid levels)
Me not playing the game...sigh.. I've stopped cause of DQ. But I know almost everything there is in LoL. Ofc I miss some small things.
I love "poking" champions. Varus, Jinx, Jhin, Sivir. I enjoy playing them, truly.

Lastly, I am tired of every META being "what stops ADC the best".

Toplane FencerSep 1, 20161 votes

Sorry if I was a bit salty there or insulting in my previous comment.

I personally don't feel like ADC's are disproportionally strong, but to each his own opinion. ADC items are strong, true, but they are also quite expensive causing many adc's to be useless until mid game, when they get 2 or 3 items. Ones that are strong early fall off late compared to other ADC's, ie Lucian or MF. Many other classes are already strong before that, which is why I feel that ADC's should have strong items.

It's hard to not make a meta about what stops adc's the best, because late game, they simply deal the most damage when they are protected by their teammates. You'd have to substantially change league to change that. Also, if they didn't clearly deal the most damage, they wouldn't be picked, because they don't bring anything to the team except for damage. Some of them have utility, but would be outclassed by mages.

Yeah, Jhin is a really fun champ to play. Can't argue there haha.

SaiannaSep 1, 20162 votes

ADC items are strong, true, but they are also quite expensive causing many adc's to be useless until mid game

You can't expect me to have straight face after hearing this one..

Each lane struggles Each lane has some expensive stuff ADCs, as others, farm for gold. Also they usually have the most kills, cause they are ADCs.. So they aren;t starving like Junglers or Supports..

Ones that are strong early fall off late compared to other ADC's, ie Lucian or MF.

That is totally different issue. Cause you know.. We talk only about weapons..

Many other classes are already strong before that, which is why I feel that ADC's should have strong items.

Well.. Melees do need something to be worth playing. So they usually have some stronger aspects. Even though I do remember times where AFK graves/kalista/jinx could have won 1v1 at level 1 with just anything.

It's hard to not make a meta about what stops adc's the best, because late game, they simply deal the most damage when they are protected by their teammates.

That's.. We have created this ADC META by doing everything to keep ADC alive. Riot then used this and started to enforce te META untill it all became crap. Riot gave us power creeped tools to bold ADCs importance even more than before.

My very first post in the thread was about weapons being power creeped, right? It's because everything Riot does is making sure ADC is always #1 in team. That's why they deal most damage. Because they have tools (PC'ed weapons) to do shitton of damage and reduce about half of anyones armor. Unfair like all hells.

You'd have to substantially change league to change that.

I have to disagree sadly.. Because it's impossible.. ADCs will always be most important. Still, we could remove/balance power creep though, which would work with me ;)

but would be outclassed by mages.

At this point mages are utility, secondary supports. They are picked either for: a) high burst (to kill anything that could kill ADC) b) supporting ADC (to save ADC from death)

That's kinda fking lame if you ask me.. It's fantasy game after all.. And yet bows and arrows and shit beats magic by a large margin (by importance)..

CeexSettAug 28, 20163 votes

The old 1st drake also gave stat buffs, so it's a bit older than that.

MarshbouyAug 28, 20165 votes

it didn't give up to 18% extra tho

CeexSettAug 28, 20163 votes

Getting 3 infernals is not really that common, and if your enemy has those 3 drakes over you, you are probably too behind to fight anyways.

NineTailedMysticAug 28, 20163 votes

[deleted]

LimrickAug 29, 20163 votes

Infernal is 8/16/24% increased AP/AD

Count ZubatAug 28, 201618 votes

Personally, I blame keystones, they pretty much started all those calamities of bruiser assasins, everyone dealing huge damage up their asses etc. Keystones increased damage by a lot, the biggest offenders being Fervor of Battle and Thunderlord's Decree. Although item changes are also huge factor: first sticking shit loads of crit chance into ADC items in marksman update, then sticking shit tons of CDR into AP items during MYMU (but then again, we kinda asked for more CDR options for mages, but not goddamn CDR on every possible item... we went from having difficulties at reaching 40% to even overbuilding because they sticked CDR up our asses).

Bard R FridayAug 28, 201615 votes

Playing against Anivia, at level 6 she can point and click do 600 damage to you on an 8 second cooldown. It's ridiculous.

GULAG 4 UAug 28, 20164 votes

It's not 600 but it's still a fucking lot.

DJMason88Aug 29, 20161 votes

Yea, I was just matched against Aniv (was playing Yas) and I was doing pretty well and she was like 0/5 with 40 cs but she still did 2/3 of my health with that combo

VantiaAug 29, 20163 votes

Yup, had somebody cheese Anivia top against my Kled yesterday. Probably the least fun I have ever had in league. Walk in to lane, get hit with E-R, lose 1/3rd of my health, rinse and repeat. Get pushing into tower and harassed under tower, try to engage, get walled, stuned, hit with E, have to back off.

IT WAS GREAT.

P.S. Anivia isn't overpowered, she is just obnoxious vs melee.

Feel ApathyAug 28, 201611 votes

item 3036 80% crit adcs Everyone having 40% cdr & infinite mana pool item 3065 is the new meta with gragas/reksai/trundle/ekko/zac & vlad overhealing damage Then there's the item 3085 adcs destroying everyone in ~2.5 secs regardless of defensive stats.

Champions that used to keep some other OPS in check were nerfed > now we even see Singed with 52+% w/r in most elos

DorkunedAurasAug 28, 20161 votes

Gragas and Rek'Sai have very limited in combat healing. At max level and max fury (maxing fury in a team fight isn't going to happen), she gets a 450 heal, and even with visage, is not a lot. Gragas is a little more likely with his % hp healing, but that has a long CD.

Trundle, Ekko, Zac and Vlad doing that are far more likely

Feel ApathyAug 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Gragas and Rek'Sai have very limited in combat healing. At max level and max fury (maxing fury in a team fight isn't going to happen), she gets a 450 heal, and even with visage, is not a lot. Gragas is a little more likely with his % hp healing, but that has a long CD.

Trundle, Ekko, Zac and Vlad doing that are far more likely

You're forgetting about the healing from the strength of ages? mastery giving them 6% health on a cannon minion/camp being amplified, that's easily 1k health with the visage.

DorkunedAurasAug 29, 20163 votes

That's not in combat. Most battles won't have a camp/cannon killed.

Besides, if you have 5000 hp, 1k hp is 20% of max. 6% * 125% = 7.5%, which would be about 400 hp.

You'd need over 10k hp for strength to be a 1k heal

SkiasAug 28, 20169 votes

It's mostly the keystones and overloaded Marksman items warping the game. The Juggernaut items weren't exactly healthy (see Yasuo and Ekko problems), but Keystones and the Defensive stats, CDR and lifesteal being given to ADCs absolutely ruined it. It turned into an arms race to keep up with that, so now buffs are tossed out all over the place to combat the insane ADC output.

Fair mention to Rylais and Frozen Mallet issues too. Endless kite...

Voluug13Aug 29, 20164 votes

To be fair Rylai's problem is rooted on specific champions more that the item itself.

And Mallet is worthless outside Teemo and Tanksuo. But Tanksuo is the problem there, not Mallet.

General TherittAug 29, 20162 votes

Have you never Seen Gnar with frozen mallet? You think he's annoying by himself already? I main this character, and I have tilted people so hard with Gnar + item 3022

redfeenixAug 28, 20168 votes

I asked a rioter about this and they said that contributes to "fast paced gameplay"

Being able to instakill someone (100->0) with a few spells is something they value in League a lot. This probably wont change.

In other games, you have to position well, and focus fire to kill targets. And you cant really kill someone with 1 rotation alone. However in League they encourage this a lot. Why need CC when you can just have raw damage.

DJMason88Aug 29, 20166 votes

Personally I think league is more reaction based than skill/strategy based. So many people can hit you with one spell, and boom full combo and you die.

rescuedAug 29, 20162 votes

Definitely more reaction based. Thats the number 1 thing you notice from bronze to master, their reaction time difference is huge.

Maligaro SpikeAug 28, 20168 votes

remember cinderhulk meta,it was slow but at least one mistake didn't lead to 3 destroyed tower and enemy taking baron+dragon

Reaper SorakaAug 29, 20168 votes

It's hard to say damage is too high. Lower it and watch Shen walk circles around you, simply killing you with sunfire aoe. Raise it and watch him still build full tank, and instantly die like it never mattered to begin with.

Balance on this game is more fragile than the ecosystem.

KoKobotoAug 29, 20161 votes

NERF SUNFIRE

Reaper SorakaAug 29, 20162 votes

Shen will still have a perma shield because you don't do enough damage.

AnonymousPoroAug 28, 20165 votes

You know when a full-build Jinx can absorb more damage than a Shen with 200 armor, there's a problem.

CatastropAug 28, 20164 votes

Xerath's Q on a 3 second CD can easily deal up 750+ magic damage to squishies. Take that as you will.

Not that I'm complaining, I fucking love landing this thing and watching them melt.

EvewynnAug 28, 20163 votes

Sounds like how league has always been, really. But late game potential for damage is definitely higher in games where infernal drake exists, that's an objective fact. No defensive dragon counterpart.

However, item damage has been trended to go down. IE and youmuu damage nerfs, Zhonya and abyssal damage nerf (along with MR increases for BV and SV). Does it even out? I'm not sure.

ArthimetesAug 28, 20163 votes

Tbh I think crit needs reduced to 150% damage and rabadons passive needs reduced to about 15% or so.

Either that or a GLOBAL 20% damage nerf on all champions.

SteelflameAug 29, 20166 votes

Rabadon's isn't a problem, hell, I rarely see it, because there are just too many other items I want before I would consider Rabadon.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 29, 20162 votes

Deathcap is pretty much a noobtrap currently. Voidstaff will pretty much always be better.

Shrek LuigiAug 29, 20163 votes

There has definitely been a power-creep as the game has evolved--somewhat intentional in some instances to discourage overly-defensive play and prevent the late-scaling hypercarries from wiping the floor as per previous seasons. The amount of burst damage tacked on to some of the newer champions seems pretty out-of-whack, though.

I think that the problem is made 10x worse by the fact that so many people opt out of building defensive items and just roll with the carbon-copy build they saw on mobafire or something.

Son of SwordAug 29, 20163 votes

This game has been on an offensively heavy design track since the early days. Anyone remember the DODGE stat? They did away with it because it wasn't "fun" when someone dodged your last hit. LOL. That was their quote.

Now spellvamp is being deleted...