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TBH tank champions are mostly fine, it's Resolve rune path that drags them down.

Sherogarth·7/30/2018, 11:58:11 PM·76 votes·18,003 views

Let me clarify few thing first:

  1. When i'm speaking about tanks i have in mind champions like Rammus, Alistar, Nautilus : heavy CC oriented, disruptive dudes, frontloaded with resistaces and some form of hard engage or peel. I DO NOT think about champions like DrMundo, Garen or Warwick who are more sustain and damage oriented and bring little to no cc.
  2. All values for gold efficiency of stats are taken from LoL Wiki page.
  3. This is a wall of text. There are conclusions at the end but I recomend reading it all.

With those two things out of the way lets take a look at why I think that Resolve tree in its current iteration is really bad for tanks.

1. Resolve's trait

Few patches ago Resolve's trait was chaged from 65 bonus hp (130 with Inspiration) to 15 - 135 (based on level) (30 - 270 with Inspiration). At a first glance this may look like a fair trade or even a buff, we traded -50hp at 1 lvl for +140hp at lvl 18 (-100hp at lvl 1 and + 140hp at lvl 18 with Inspiration).

Now let me ask you a few questions: How often do you even reach lvl 18 in your games? What is more impactful: +50hp at lvl 1 when your total hp is around 500 - 650 or +140hp at lvl 18 when your total hp is somewhere around 4k - 4.5k? Is this trait even good compared to traits from other rune paths?

Let me answer the last one: tl;dr = it sucks. MATH TIME! Lets asume that our TANKY DUDE went to the top lane with Resolve/Inspiration setup (because he loves bisciuts :D). On the other hand his enemy: SLASHY-FLASHY LASS went with Domination/Sorcery setup.

TANKY DUDE starts with bonus 30hp. SLASHY-FLASHY LASS starts with bonus 20ap or 12ad (Adaptive). 30hp is worth whopping 78 gold (30 x 2,6) 20ap is worth 435 gold. (20 x 21.75) 12ad is worth 420 gold. (12 x 35)

In other words: just by going with Resolve path TANKY DUDE handed around 350 gold of advantage to SLASHY-FLASHY LASS at lvl 1.... Feels bad. But wait, there is still hope for TANKY DUDE. His trait is based on lvl, All he needs to do is to wait 'til his bonus gets even or better than his enemy's bonus... The sad part is that it gets even around lvl 10 - 11 with 157 - 171hp (worth 408 - 445g) and, by this time, he got his ass handled to himself few times already.

Few additional notes:

  • In comparison to Precision's 18% attack speed Resolve looks even worse (18% attack speed is worth 450 gold (18 x 25)).
  • Pevious 130hp bonus was worth 338g.
  • Picking other path than Inspiration somewhat offsets this disproportion but we are still looking at 100 - 180 gold disadvantage.

2. Weak or simply bad runes

(TBH I dont mind keystones, they are fine by me but the other runes provided by Resolve path are at best questionable.)

Lets start form the top; Strength tier:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/3/3a/Demolish_rune.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/55?cb=20170926025614 Demolish While on paper this rune looks really good or even op there are few things worth of noting:

  • Currently turret are joke and they crumble under thier own weight.
  • Tanky champions that are good with pushing/splitpushing (Nasus, Trundle, Yorick) are already able to destroy your turret with 1 - 2 minion weaves.
  • You should never send a tank to splitpush for your team, he/she is too valuable in teamfights and too easy to kill if left alone.
  • This rune proviedes you with no combat bonus versus champions making your already hard lane (thanks to your trait) even harder.
  • item 3512 exists.

Tl;dr: Demolish rune is often either an overkill or a rune that will never be used to its full potential. Solution: Imo this rune should be removed. (The effect is nice and i think i could find it's niche as an item's passive. item 3056's rework? )

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/f/f6/Font_of_Life_rune.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/55?cb=20170926025627 Font of Life On the other hand this rune is somewhat good (in constant Teamfight enviorment aka ARAM it can heal up to 2k). The problem with Font of Life is just that: it's a teamfight only rune that scales with teamfight's duration. In current meta of Burst City this rune is almost worthless. Also this rune provides you with nothing in solo lane, so you are playing without a rune for half of the game... meh. (side question: how is Font of Life fitting into a tier called Strength?) Solution: Let Font of Life affect the user (even for 1/2 or 1/4 of the effect) so it is viable in solo lane.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/7/75/Bone_Plating_rune.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/55?cb=20180209233224 Bone Plating The most popular rune in this tier. This one must be good, right? To be fair its quite hard to figure out the true value of Bone Plating but I decided to do i anyway. The math behind all calculations is at the end of this post. It turns out that Bone Plating is worse than 6 point of either armor or mr (based on type damage taken) on a champion with ~100 armor or mr... 6 armor is worth 120g, 6 mr - 108g... item 2419 is worth 600g or 250 + saved life (probably) if u decide to sell it after using. Its also worth noting that there are champions and items that scale with both armor and mr making those resistances even more valuable to them. Solution: It could use a slight buff.

Second tier: Resistance (To be fair most of the runes in this tier is decent, but this does not mean they are without flaws)

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/5/55/Conditioning_rune.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/55?cb=20170926025654 Conditioning

  • 8 armor and mr is decent and + 5% to max armor and mr is also somewhat nice, but as always there is room to improve. First and foremost the fact this rune in on a 10min timer combined with per lvl nature of Resovles' trait makes you feel like you are playing without runes for half of the game. +5% armor and mr is not bad but one must remember that resistances are affected by diminishing returns, so while on paper +15 armor bonus with 300 armor looks nice it's the same amount of protection as +5 armor bonus with 100 armor, hp bonus would be much better in late game. (Proved wrong, see comment section.) Solution: Split the rune into early and late game component: +5 armor and mr from lvl 1 and +2.5% max hp after 10min.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/6/65/Second_Wind_rune.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/55?cb=20171025041008 Second Wind There is not much to say about this rune. Second Wind heals decent amount throughout the game. The only problem is that it is simply sustain only rune and it provides no true tankiness whatsoever. Solution: Small buff like +25 hp at lvl 1 or + 1.5% max hp or leave it as it is.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/0/06/Chrysalis_rune.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/55?cb=20180310102632 Chrysalis To be fair this rune feels like Riot is trying tell me that i picked the wrong tree: "Hey kid, u don't need defences, maybe u want some damages insted? Damages are gooooood.". Anyway its a decent rune for bruisers or even assasins that are not so sure about thier early game. Gold value is also decent (130g for 50hp and 315 / 326g for ad / ap). Solution: Leave it as it is even if it feels somewhat wierd :D.

**Last tier: Vitality **

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/4/42/Overgrowth_rune.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/55?cb=20170926025717 Overgrowth Simple math: Lets assume thet throughout the game 400 minons died near me, therefore Overgrowth gives me 10% bonus health. Lat assume that i have 4.5k hp at this point, so i gained 450hp from this rune. 450hp is worth 1170g, thats alot for a rune. This rune is really strong in long games on the other hand its really bad in short games and in early game where is provides almost nothing. Solution: Leave it as it is but add another early game oriented rune (for those games with really intense laning phase) or slow down the stacking (ex. form 0.2% per 8 minions to 0.2% per 10 minions) but add small flat hp bonus form the get go.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/0/0c/Revitalize_rune.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/55?cb=20170926025724 Revitalize Decent Rune, simple as that. Easy to get value from and almost necessery for any healing champion. On the other hand not really a rune that a tank would use as it dont provide any upfront tankiness. Solution: Leave it as it is.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/8/81/Unflinching_rune.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/55?cb=20170926025600 Unflinching To be honest I dont even know what to write about this one. In my opininion it simply outclassed by Legend: Tenacity from Precision tree which is active all the time. Tenecity is somewhat strange stat on tanks, on the one hand you want it while on the other hand the tankier you are the less you are bothered by cc. A 1sec. cc for an ADC can be equal to death, for a tank 1sec cc is just annoyance... We also need to remember that displacements are not affected by tenacity. Solution: Remove it, or make it into pure slow resistance rune.

Conclusion: The main problem with Resolve tree for tanks is that it provides very litle upfront defensive options in early game compared to other trees packed with upfront damage options. It's really unfun for a tank player to go into the lane knowing that you are already behind your oponent up to 700g worth of stats.

Short therm solution: Rework some runes into more early game friendly versions and remove pointless runes that only fill the space.

Long therm solution: Rework entire path and make it focused on sustain, life, and adaptation. Add new defensive path, focused on resistances, cc and hinderance of your oponent to allow players pick thier playstyle and allow players go full defense mode similar to current double offensive setups like Domination/Sorcery.

Bone Plating math (bonus, boring content). I decided to play few games to gather the data (mostly arams as they provide almost 100% up time of this rune and a nice teamfight environment). I focused at amount of damage blocked by Bone Plating and self migated damage. game 1. 65695 SMD, 633 BP game 2. 42485 SMD, 640 BP game 3. 25438 SMD, 636 BP game 4. 64031 SMD, 458 BP game 5. 68770 SMD, 840 BP game 6. 56705 SMD, 862 BP game 7. 7940 SMD, 148 BP game 8. 34682 SMD, 205 BP game 9. 35.223 SMD, 771 BP After that i calculated the average values: ~44500 SMD and 577 BP Then I calculate what % of self migated damage is the damage blocked by Bone Plating. 577 x 100 / 44500 = 1.3%

Well thats bad...

Now lets compare this to the armor.

I went to the training mode with lvl 1 Varus and tested 2 builds:

  1. item 3006, item 1043 , item 1043 , item 1043, item 3072, item 1037
  2. item 3006, item 1043 , item 1043 , item 1043, item 3072, item 3134 and Resolve/Inspiration runes (no bonus ad or attack speed) The only difference in those builds is 10 lethality which at lvl 1 penetrated 6 points of armor. I used lethality to simulate gain of armor on target dummy. I auto-attacked the target dummy (100 armor) with both build for 3 min. In that time Normal Varus dealt 22286 total damage and Lethal Varus dealt 22909. This means that 6 points of armor reduced damage by 623. Then i calculated % of Lethal Varus's damage is reduced by armor. 623 x 100 / 22909 = 2.7%

In other words Bone Plating is either really bad or I did some stupid miscalculation.

At the end I just wanted to thank anyone who was brave (or bored) enough to read it all. You are the real MVP!

72 Comments

PopcornBunni7/31/2018, 2:15:40 AM29 votes

That, and tanks are missing 180 health and ~30 armor early compared to the old runes and masteries while damage classes get 20+ AD and 28+ AP from the start.

Bob the Toastr7/31/2018, 5:58:36 AM19 votes

Honestly, it's not just runes; their full build items are pretty gold inefficient compared to those of other classes. Some examples:

item 3001 87% gold efficient without its aura (which doesn't do much for a tank)

item 3194 89% gold efficient without it's passive (so this one is actually decent, probably close to 100%)

item 3143 78% gold efficient without special bonuses, closer to 90% if they have lots of crit

item 3068 80% gold efficient without its passive

item 3065 the only good MR item, 105% gold efficient without its passive

Now let's look at some assassin items

item 3147 90% efficient, but if you count the extra burst damage, it's closer to 100%, not counting the sweeping passive which is pretty op

item 3142 106% gold efficient out of combat, 133% with active

item 3814 97% gold efficient without active

item 3812 115% gold efficient without DoT passive

Now for some ADC items

item 3031 Only 78% without passives, but with a single full crit item it jumps to 111%, then with two it jumps to 133%, not counting the true damage

item 3087 About 78% efficient without passive, but since passive is basically a Luden's proc it's close to 90%

item 3094 About the same as statikk

item 3095 130% efficient counting the movement speed but not the free crit

item 3153 140% efficient on a 1000 health target, + an extra 63% efficiency for every 1000 more health the target has

item 3072 101% efficient before shield, 128% with it

As you can see, full tank items are just inefficient when compared to most other item. Tanks' items hover around the 80-90% efficiency mark while assassin and ADC items are typically 90-100% with some up to 130% and higher

Fízz v27/31/2018, 1:31:49 AM9 votes

Tbh I dont think resolve is a big issue for tanks compared to all the true damage and armor pen. Sure some runes succ but you have good choices except maybe in the last tier where all are kinda meh unless you are a heal champ with Revitalize.
But the keystones are a pretty big part of Resolve too, both Aftershock and Grasp are pretty overpowered.

Seer of Mind7/31/2018, 3:52:56 AM7 votes

I say remove Unflinching or rework it. You only get it's effects if your sums are on cooldown (In this meta, if you were tank top, Tele/Flash this would be very reliable, but tanks aren't seen often.) I'd rather prefer more tenacity items, or items that defend against a certain type of cc (Immobilizes only? Or soft cc? [Blind, Nearsighted, ect.] idk) In reality you're only gonna be getting 10% tenacity for most of the match due to ignite being so popular and its short cooldown.

Just me thoughts.

ModKnightsKemplar7/31/2018, 3:41:31 PM6 votes

This makes a pretty strong case to me, but I think we can dig deeper about why Riot has done this.

The answer lies a bit with the old runes, again. Everyone took armor and mr runes because they were the most efficient things in that tier, and everyone was happy with that. Even assassins expected that and were balanced around it.

Now, though, we get no armor and mr from the resolve tree, so even if you do spec into it, you don't get very much protection. I'm still not sure why Riot is so opposed to putting some flat mr and armor into this tree. The original runes that did that were honestly probably much better for balance (Iron Skin and Mirror plating); conditioning is fine as a late-game scaling rune, sure, but now there are no early game runes for tanks except for bone plating. Conditioning, Font of Life, and overgrowth are all only really helpful in the late game.

The upshot of all this is that you can't really spec against damage dealers in lane. They just get to bully and you have to put up with it. I suppose, as a strategy for balance, that could be fine as the game goes longer... except it doesn't work in League, because marksmen and mages get their pen late game and still dump on you. So tanks never really get a strong moment in the game; they just get bullied, start to finish, without their own carries to protect them.

So yeah, you're right. We need more power in the resolve tree, and honestly, who cares if some carries use it to help survive laning? That's what we need right now! But because it has been considered a problem for carries to "abuse" this tree, there aren't options that feel good for carries or tanks in this tree. The only people I enjoy the resolve tree on are support tanks; lo and behold, support tanks are the only tanks that are really successful in this meta. Because they have a carry next to them the entire game.

Z3Sleeper7/31/2018, 4:43:31 AM5 votes

{quoted}

+5% armor and mr is not bad but one must remember that resistances are affected by diminishing returns, so while on paper +15 armor bonus with 300 armor looks nice it's the same amount of protection as +5 armor bonus with 100 armor

I thought we debunked this a long time ago? Pretty sure the value of armor is consistent no matter how much you have. It never diminishes the return.

Edit: Yeah, it's consistent.

The formula for damage reduction is: 100/(100 + Armor)

Examples:

25 armor = 100/(100 + 25) = 0.8 (20% damage reduction or +25% effective health) 100 armor = 100/(100 + 100) = 0.5 (50% damage reduction or +100% effective health) 900 armor = 100/(100 + 900) = 0.1 (90% damage reduction or +1000% effective health)

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Armor

What this means: by definition, armor does not have diminishing returns in regard of effective hitpoints, because each point increases the unit's effective health against physical damage by 1% of its current actual health whether the unit has 10 armor or 1000 armor. However, health and armor have increasing returns with respect to each other.

Nea1047/31/2018, 11:43:27 AM5 votes

It's not only about Resolve.

True damage is out of control, with Conqueror, overbuffed Ignite, items, passives and so on. Overall damage is out of control as well, so it's just more convenient to burst enemies mindlessy, than trying to tank their (not-tankable) damage.

Season 8, awesome game.

Velasan7/31/2018, 9:09:29 PM4 votes

Pretty accurate. There are a couple of points I disagree on though.

Demolish, even if it's maybe not in the right tree, is probably one of the most OP runes that exists. Like Glacial it drastically changes the way the game is played and is essential to certain champions. It's just seen as weaker right now because there is so much damage flying around you are almost required to take every single thing that prevents that damage. If damage was lower and you could get away with taking it without as much consequence then it's strong.

Bone plating is not about reducing the total damage you take. The rune is there to reduce the amount of front loaded burst you receive in a combo during a trade and THAT'S why it's so powerful. Second wind is the rune that steadily reduces the total damage (anti poke), where as Bone plating is there to make it harder for the enemy to all in you such as when facing Zed/Talon etc. Anti burst vs Anti dps.

Also, Unflinching is an insanely good rune. It has both slow resistance AND tenacity on it and is very good for both top and JG. In the jungle you smite the enemy trying to run away and then you automatically get a bunch of tenacity and slow resist to chase them. It's really good on both Sej and Voli who just want to stick to people. Unless I'm confused about the way it works it also increases every time you use a summoner temporarily. In other words using both summoners gives you even more tenacity so if you flash after someone it increases your ability to get them instead of being crowd controlled while they run away. Personally feel it's just very underrated.

xJLx MCHammer7/31/2018, 4:27:41 AM4 votes

Don't balance an entire class around runes. It just makes them volatile to any changes.

Many tanks are bad because riot over the course of 2-3 years decided to give tanks more damage. This was an effort to stop the "Wet noddle fights". When they did that, the solved one problem. Unfortunately, by giving tanks more damage (specifically base damage and % hp damage), they toned down their defense.

It doesnt help that riot also introduced better armor/mpen shredding, better %HP damage, more true damage source..etc

Now, what I think Tanks need is an item that gives them more resistances/hp when they are surrounded by a lot of enemies. item 3193 Technically is good. Unfortunately, I do think it needs to be better but have a higher requirement. IE, it wont work if you don't have X or Y amount of HP/Armor. This would somewhat prevent some champions from abusing it like they did when Gargoyle was in meta. Champions that technically were not tanks.

MadViking7/31/2018, 10:00:32 AM4 votes

You make a lot of excellent points, many I'm inclined to agree with you.

The Resolve tree really does suck for tanks and one can't deny the gold disadvantage you get in stats over your slashy slashy top laners that take conqueror, or electrocute.

50000000000000007/31/2018, 3:59:41 AM3 votes

Bone plating's value doesn't come from overall damage reduction, but rather a burst of tankiness. Effectively, it can be a 45-120 damage shield per fight. What you're doing is like estimating the value of electrocute by looking at how much DPS you gain.

SanKakU7/31/2018, 3:20:03 PM3 votes

IMHO it is really not only the rune page's fault. We can also blame the lack of a decent jungle item for tanks. They usually have to take the AP jungle item as it gives them the most bang for their gold. Looking for armor jungle item and maybe get a movement speed passive to the HP jungle item and the new armor item.

I can agree demolish is bad. Unflinching is okay but it doesn't suit a tank's playstyle IMO. Same for Revitalize. Chrysalis is bad. Second Wind is amazing in 2 vs 2 lanes and in ARAM. It's okay for team fighting if you're a tank. Conditioning was solid before they made Domination and Precision rune page stronger. Now it's almost always inferior to Second Wind. Font of Life is bad even if your allies are using it. It really needs a buff to reward teamwork, even if it's an insane one to hype it for cooperation in games IMO. Although if this rune was too strong it would make playing against strong groups of players feel even worse. Bone Plating helps non-tanks more than it helps tanks but it's still vastly superior to the other options even on tanks.

Grasp is better on ranged than it is on melee. If I'm playing melee, I'll consider a keystone from another rune page. That right there should send up red flags about the rune page's viability. Guardian has a long cooldown and isn't good most of the time, especially if your ally doesn't know how to play with it. Best champions IMO to take it are Janna and Orianna who you might be able to control it with much better than any other champ. Those aren't even tanks, they are supports. IMO, you're often just as well off taking Summon Aery. They need to buff the cooldown of this rune significantly IMO and reduce its shield power at least a little. Aftershock is actually pretty good because it provides an incredible burst of defense for many champs and is pretty much the defensive equivalent of Summon Aery in that you often can't use it for both purposes as much as you'd like to. Which helps keep the keystone balanced, but its long cooldown makes it prohibitive for tank playstyles IMHO. It's much better for assassins/supports than it is for tanks.

While there is a lot of room for improvement in the Resolve rune page, I can say the same thing about other rune pages, especially Inspiration.

Lil Homie busta7/31/2018, 5:18:15 PM3 votes

As long as Riot keep balancing around pro-play, Resolve will never be effective as damage paths.

Infernape7/31/2018, 10:35:43 AM3 votes

Tbh the only tank that can splitpush and could take demolish is Shen because of his ult

Breezey Boy7/31/2018, 7:47:56 PM2 votes

As somebody who plays primarily Enchanters, I think the Revitalize rune is pretty lack luster, I don't even take it anymore. It's nothing more than a down graded version of Windspeaker's Blessing.

Mecha Incognito7/31/2018, 7:13:37 PM2 votes

Bone Plating ...It turns out that Bone Plating is worse than 6 point of either armor or mr (based on type damage taken) on a champion with ~100 armor or mr...

That's hardly fair for how useful it is. It might degrade in value over a game, but starting a game with roughly 25 armor/30 mr it's very, very strong.

Śhunpo7/31/2018, 9:37:02 AM2 votes

Uhhhh just so you know, the Resolve tree is broken.....what tanks need is another update where Riot actually makes them interesting to play so they get a relevant enough pick rate to inflate their winrate.

RainXBlade7/31/2018, 7:39:13 PM2 votes

I would honestly prefer if the Resolve Tree gave scaling resistances instead of HP. Conditioning as it is takes too long to actually have an impact on the user. If it were up to me, I'd replace Conditioning with a more active defensive tool.

FixHealsRemoveGW7/31/2018, 6:45:46 AM2 votes

I think you forget that all rune trees are also used AND MEANT to be used by non-tank classes. Every rune tree is multipurpose, you can't expect them to be perfectly adapted to a specific class with the ideal benefits. Enchanters and Fighters very often use resolve secondary.

The only runes that are used only by tanks are the keystones,.... that you are not talking about.