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Can We Have a DISCUSSION on Veigar?

A Tall Joke·2/13/2015, 5:42:56 PM·3 votes·425 views

As we all (hopefully) know, positive feedback and proper discussion are much better ways to get responses from the Riot community regarding changes. As a Veigar main, I have my own grievances with the changes; that said, I think the best way to address them is to have a discussion. Not pitchforks up raging like I'm seeing on the boards but an actual discussion.

That way, we can hopefully get a real discussion going. For those of you who do not know, these are the changes slated for PBE:

Q - Baleful Strike

  • Changed to a skill shot that stops on the second unit hit

  • Grants 1 AP for each unit killed

  • Range increased to 850 from 650

  • Cooldown changed to 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 from 8/7/6/5/4

W - Dark Matter

  • Mana Cost reduced to 70/75/80/85/90 from 70/80/90/100/110

  • Cooldown reduced to 10/9.5/9/8.5/8 from 10 at all ranks

E - Event Horizon

  • Has a 0.75 second delay with a warning particle before the walls appear

  • Mana Cost decreased to 80/85/90/95/100 from 80/90/100/110/120

  • Cooldown reduced to 18/17/16/15/14 from 20/19/18/17/16

  • Range increased to 700 from 650

R - Primordial Burst

  • AP Ratio reduced to 1.0 from 1.2 (Ratio on enemy's AP unchanged)

  • Mana Cost flattened to 125 at all ranks from 125/175/225

  • Cooldown reduced to 120/100/80 from 130/110/90

And some (paraphrased) explanations of Riot's changes (I don't necessarily agree with these points but these are the arguments):

Essentially, Q in practice farms much better than it did before. Which makes sense given the increased range for safer farming and being able to hit two targets. So, to compensate, we nerf R ratios to keep his burst approximately even in the late game. And the E changes gives more opportunities for counterplay than an undodgeable stun that lasts forever but they are compensatory buffs to come with. This way, E is more about the sort of play where opponents have to choose whether to be stuck in the circle of his stun or to just take the stun and then flee.

8 Comments

GummyBearWookiee2/13/2015, 5:53:14 PM1 votes

Everything is fine...with the exception of the stun change. I understand the need to change it...however, there needs to be some compensation that goes with it. The W change means nothing if you have no way to hit them since the chance of landing a stun vs the in vogue mobility champs are about 5%. The change to the ult makes perfect sense with the Q change for added AP farm.

My suggestion? Keep the .75 delay on the stun...but make it so if you get caught in the cage particle before it goes off you get a slow for that same 2.5 seconds on that stun and make it increase with levels. That way...they can't just jump out with mobility champs like Kat or LeBlanc and not have a penalty. Say a 15/20/25/30/35% slow based on level of Event Horizon.

It's an Event Horizon after all...it just makes sense. Forget about the silences etc people are throwing about...that's way too powerful. A small to moderate slow would help with landing the W's inside the cage as well making that ability actually viable again and not just for wave clearing only. The slow doesn't have to be huge...the amount I stated sounds like it would be extremely fair.

Raxicor2/13/2015, 6:49:25 PM1 votes

I'm excited to see how this change works out. I'm one of those that has to play to really get a feel on if I like something or don't. Though I did cry a little on the inside to see the Q turn into a skill shot. But it bounces once so that's kind of neat. I wonder if it'll prioritize nearby champions on the bounce or not.

SmokingPuffin2/13/2015, 6:58:50 PM1 votes

I think new Q is a really really good button. We shouldn't underrate the advantage of being able to farm from 200 more range, or hit two targets with each Q.

R change seems like it's only about making R not completely insane with new Q. Probably about neutral for damage, up slightly more often.

New E got absolutely kicked in the teeth, though, which makes W way harder to use. This is the part we'll have to play with to see whether he's at all usable.

DrCyanide2/13/2015, 7:01:05 PM1 votes

Event Horizon is the one ability that has me worried. Baleful Strike I'll adapt to, Dark Matter and Primordial Burst are basically the same, but Event Horizon...

Dark Matter won't hit, because Event Horizon won't stun. Someone compared it to Thresh's box, but the underlying difference is that Thresh has two ways to hold foes in the box while it sets up.

Before you relied on Veigar to mess up not to get stunned, but now Veigar relies on his opponent messing up to stun them.

The way everything is described is that if Veigar is lucky, he will trap someone in his Event Horizon. He'll then try and drop a Dark Matter, but they'll be able to dodge it with ease, since it still falls at the same slow rate. He then has to try and hit them with Q as they move to dodge the W, then he follows up with R. You have to land Q, and you have to kill them with R, because you have literally nothing left in your kit.