I'm sick of Zed

Derfel·Jan 22, 2016·46 votes·3,791 views

I'm sick of his manaless non stop spam that does 40% of my hp. Fuck this champion. Fuck him. You wanna rework someone? Rework Zed.

70 Comments

colesyJan 22, 20166 votes

wow imagine if you just bought a zhonya/qss and actually dodged his shurikens

oh wait that would mean not sucking at the game

but stay bad and complain, its ok, it makes you feel better rather than acknowledging you're fucking bad

DerfelJan 22, 20166 votes

I'm better than you kid don't kid yourself

colesyJan 22, 20161 votes

[deleted]

Woook3rJan 22, 20166 votes

{quoted}

lmfao. some plat shithead thinks he's better than a diamond, funny guy.

guess why I got diamond and you didn't? because I'm better than you. now stfu and learn how to play against zed rather than talking shit because you're too fucking awful to learn how to play against him.

this person is also in plat and believes that victor jinx and leblanc all have the same playstyle.

Very Hard EngageJan 22, 201618 votes

{quoted}

wow imagine if you just bought a zhonya/qss and actually dodged his shurikens

oh wait that would mean not sucking at the game

but stay bad and complain, its ok, it makes you feel better rather than acknowledging you're fucking bad

wow, its almost like his 900 range ability can be cast over 80 times from level 1 onwards until your first back at around the 8~9minute mark

i wonder how many times an AP mid laner with mana (who has less base damage on their ability) can cast theirs? (hint, its close to 18(including all mana regen from start to 8~9minutes) pending which champion you play) before going totally oom and defenseless!

its almost like zed is just melee range.... but i go to auto to last hit at 550 range? im autoing? OH LOOK A FREE ZED Q because 900 range to my 550range....

so im FORCED to use abilities to last hit or i take free damage just for last hitting.

how do you not see how blatant and gross zeds laning phase is?

colesyJan 22, 20163 votes

you realise zed's q deals reduced damage if it goes through another target first right? if you're not confident enough you can dodge them, just stand behind your creeps and you'll take reduced damage.

yeah, sure, zed's laning is strong, but the fact of the matter is, zhonyas and qss honestly just shit on him so hard (like, I don't even know why people play zed when you can pretty much remove any of his assassination potential by like 25 minutes in to the game) that he needs to have a strong early so that he has a window of opportunity to actually do something in game besides endless split push, ulting an adc to bait their qss and then just running away.

Very Hard EngageJan 22, 201611 votes

like i dont understand how such a highly ranked player still fantasizes that those items hard counter him. because in reality zed waits until you're in kill range, zhonyas/rod make it easier for sure, but at the end of the day hes still going to pressure you down, and then kill you.

and rushing zhonas destroys your build, your team fighting, your waveclearing, in favor of just not dieing

i want you play against zed, and rush zhonyas for 10 games, i want to see how many you win/lose and how many kills the enemy zed still racks up anyway, hes going to crush you in farm too.

if you win 6/10 of your games against zed by rushing zhonyas/qss/roa, then come see me and educate me on how great it works and what i just have to do. but if you just so happen to go under 5/10, then were gunna have a problem.

and dont pick a direct counter like annie/liss/kayle/malzahar, pick anyone else other than those 4.

colesyJan 22, 20163 votes

so why are you letting yourself get in to kill range? problem solved.

Very Hard EngageJan 22, 201610 votes

{quoted}

so why are you letting yourself get in to kill range? problem solved.

sorry i wasn't able to dodge 100% of zeds shirkens, only 95% of the ~50 he throws directly at me, not cs =/

im just going to level with you, the only champion ive had success on against trashing on the zed and coming out ahead, was old veigar. i could land my stun, get a gank, FORCE HIM to take all of my burst damage, and then there was nothing he could do about it. not many champions have stuns to do that. most of which are skill shots and general travel time, and dont hit behind minions.

sure it was a volatile lane, but hey, the better player always came out ahead.

colesyJan 22, 20161 votes

so you literally just admitted the problem is you can't dodge skill shots.

so:

step 1: get better at dodging shurikens step 2: go recall when you get in to zed's kill range (factor in ult pop, damage amplification, damage from abilities, ignite and an auto attack) step 3: the unfed zed will do fuck all

Very Hard EngageJan 22, 20168 votes

its fine, ill dodge 50 of his skill shots instead of 48

meanwhile he only has to dodge ~ 8 before i can no longer kill him.

KieferrJan 23, 20162 votes

I totally agree that he is currently way overtuned and needs nerfs asap. But your mentality and approach to the game is fucking unbelievable. Colesy94 is making valid points. Zed NEEDS a good early game because come late, his play pattern reduces to "press r, button mash, press r again and hope he dies, then run away and cower like a little bitch". He already has a bad late game which is made worse with zhonyas. So if he didn't have a good early, it's just a bad champion at all stages of the game which = no point choosing him.

HI IM DAISY 83Jan 23, 20161 votes

{quoted} So if he didn't have a good early, it's just a bad champion at all stages of the game which = no point choosing him.

Yeah, that would be awful. Talon

ShwaShwaBagginsJan 23, 20161 votes

The difference between Talon and Zed is that Talon has easier mechanics (in my opinion), but, thanks to his mana pool and lack of reliable escapes (aka no free flash every 10 seconds or so), Talon requires smart decision making at all stages of the game.

Handin Out NapsJan 23, 20161 votes

Sounds pretty easy, I ussually only get hit by a small fraction of them anyway.

Spizzle9000Jan 23, 20161 votes

Have you tried Lissandra? She's really good against most Zeds depending on their skill level. Like, you have pretty good harass with your Q, E for mobility, R for if he tower dives or if you might die from his ult, and W if he tower dives or just generally gets too close for comfort. Sure, she has shit mana, but she still counters Zed pretty hard.

MorcleonJan 23, 20167 votes

From experience playing both sides of the matchup, Lissandra is pretty good against Zed, but all she really brings to the table that specifically counters Zed is a free Zhonya's active with heal and some AoE damage (or a stun, depending). It's possible to bait an ult, then E to your tower and CC lock Zed until he dies under tower, but no good Zed is going to fall for that, so it ends up stalling into a farm lane unless a jungler manages to pull off a gank (which is rather difficult considering shadow and claw).

Which is actually pretty good for you since if Zed roams to get kills, you push and wreck his tower.

Spizzle9000Jan 23, 20161 votes

Precisely. And most Zeds aren't good, which is good for all of us because he's incredibly terrifying if you're very good. And it may be a farming lane, but I'd say that's pretty damn good if anything because Zed is basically garbage if he doesn't get fed at all. Now, yeah he'll roam, but this is why you gotta ping a ton and tell bot (and sometimes top) back the fuck off and not push to the tower when Zed is mia.

FoxfeathersJan 23, 20161 votes

Lissandra is a "sort-of counter" to Zed. If her ult gets baited at any time when Zed's ult is off of cooldown she dies spectacularly soon after if Zed is good at whittling her down with the shurikens. It's a lot easier for him to land the shurikens than for Liss to land her Q if he knows how to avoid standing behind creeps and if you risk hitting him without minion bounce he will out-trade you 80% of the time.

Also consider that a Lissandra being forced to use her ult JUST to avoid being killed by a Zed means she can't use it on other things such as offensively going in on him unless she's at a large advantage, and limits its use in teamfights.

I main Lissandra and although I may go even with Zed I can't beat him without a lot of help if he's truly good. Being fairly immobile it's also hard to keep him from roaming; if he's doing it right he will always have the lane pressure too.

I've actually had more luck against him with (lol) Galio. Only champion in the game that rushing QSS after some basic mana regen isn't a bad idea and at least QSS doesn't waste an ult as life insurance.

Spizzle9000Jan 23, 20161 votes

True, true. But she can also stun Zed when he appears behind her because his ult won't do much damage if he's stunned for a third of it, then W when out of his melee range, and then Q him. He'll probably get out alive, but that's not the point. Zed is monstrous early game, and if you prevent him from getting kills, he's useless late game.

FoxfeathersJan 24, 20161 votes

That's a very specific scenario that doesn't usually play out so well hehe. You may or may not get a chance to stun him at a perfect enough time to prevent the most meaningful portion of it because it depends on his decision making skills and opportunity. If you know you're going to be against a Zed as Liss you need to run barrier on her and that alone sort of disqualifies her as a great counter since then you're already rather on the defensive.

And then his ult is on a slightly lower cooldown than yours and he actually builds CDR first sometimes if smart. Eventually that jellybean is going to catch you with your pants down.

Granted a better option for him is to use his ult on people he has more kill potential against in other lanes if he's not sure you're either a pushover or defenseless but I guess the bottom line is there are still better options. ^_^;

I don't mean to say she's a BAD pick! But there are bettah, especially if you don't 100% trust your jungler, or are wary of theirs. Jungler diving pros, if they're confident they can at least not die to Liss, will do everything possible to bait her ult knowing her weakness to Zed when it's down. If you lack serious counter pressure after everyone realizes they know what to do to wreck your day a hard lane will get a lil' harder.

Kayle (< mmmmaybe) Anivia Galio or Fizz I think I would trust a little more. Just a weedle.

Spizzle9000Jan 24, 20161 votes

Really? I've always found Zed vs. Lissandra a freebie for Lissandra (depending on how good their Zed is).

Tbh, I really shouldn't be talking about this stuff because I'm low mmr, ergo a lot of stupid Zeds.

I mean, I went 32/12/something yesterday as Yi. It's sad man.

Handin Out NapsJan 23, 20161 votes

Might have to do with the fact that the higher you go in elo the more you begin to understand how to play vs things and generally how things work.

You talk a lot about how hard it is to deal with Zed in lane, but honestly I wouldn't mind proving you wrong again. I bet I could beat you 1v1 as Zed with Viktor. You wouldn't mind showing me how hard it is to deal with Zed right?

WalkingInACircleJan 22, 201610 votes

Muh Zhonyas.

The only thing it does is stop Zed from diving a 1v5 and still winning. Even without his ult, he easily nukes a squishies HP, and stasising yourself takes you out of a fight and sets you up for anyone else to kill you. A mage that is out of position is still dead. Even if that isn't the case, besides destroying the other team's midlaner's farm and build path, Zed just ults their jungler and kills him instead.

Zhonya's mildly inconveniences Zed.

colesyJan 22, 20162 votes

lol. zed's ult is mandatory for him to kill squishies unless he's super fed.

Very Hard EngageJan 22, 20167 votes

unless he managed to hit you twice with Q's in lane and you weren't able to sustain at all and at which point you found yourself at 60~75% health so zed just pressed R to get close to you and guarantee the damage from E -> Q -> auto and you died anyway from bork/ignite damage before the ult damage even mattered.

colesyJan 22, 20162 votes

so lets see, you got yourself low enough, took in to account all of his different sources of damage and you still didn't back?

more importantly, q is something you can juke by either dashing or flashing in an unpredictable direction (spoiler: don't dash towards your tower).

sounds to me like you're just greedy and can't be bothered to play around his kill pressure.

Very Hard EngageJan 22, 20169 votes

sounds to me like i dont want to give up my tower for free, expose myself to untold ganks and roams and just give zed a free pass to go wherever he wants on the map, because i have such confidence in my team mates they'll listen when i signal them danger and they'll understand what MIA MIA on mid lane means.

because in reality my jungler would at least cover or gank while i back. but hey, hed rather farm wolves -> raptors anyway.

colesyJan 22, 20162 votes

but you aren't giving it up for free because you have something called waveclear.

stop making excuses and learn to play, if zed was an actual issue he'd be getting nerfed but he's fine.

Very Hard EngageJan 22, 201611 votes

stop sticking up for the broken AF assassin.

see what i did there? same thing you did.

assumed i knew everything about my opponent gave no consideration into anything and assumed everything was otherwise fine and that i had to be 100% right and infallible.

stop making excuses for zed in particular, the only good thing is that hes terrible in a 5v5 setting because someone is going to be around to target him and it will be like its a 5v4 on the spot because a melee carry cant dive in without getting some form of hard cc applied where he just dies.

because in reality, zed is the peerless 1v1 king. people would rather see he gets some 5v5 potential in him and have his godly laning phase turned into something normal like ziggs, where its hit or miss, literally.

zed is spoon fed like a baby, and just given a free lead from lane because of his kit alone. there are hard counters, and then theres the other 90% of mid laners who take it up the back end just because his name is zed. and for those 90% of players, zhonyas is a bad rush item.

so great, zed wants to solo push top? take an inhibitor? fine, well 5v4, win it, and then send 2 to defend while 3 push down mid and end the game.

you assume your jungler is competent and will be there when zed is playing overly aggressive and will get punished for it. theres your mistake, he doesnt. instead he gets to freely play aggressive and reap the benefits all the time. and once he gets his 3 kill lead all within a 5minute window after level 6. and all the cs in the world. hes going to 2v1 when your jungler finally shows up. and suddenly hes snowballing.

lets assume i only give the tower up and were even in cs, great, zed still roams and applies tons of pressure elsewhere and no1 bats an eye other than "GG mid lane feeding" zeds 6 and 2. despite myself being 0/0/0 and even in cs with zed.

Spizzle9000Jan 23, 20161 votes

In all fairness though, his laning phase is meant to be incredibly oppressive and awful for everyone involved.

AbusingMyRightsJan 23, 20161 votes

Ask the jungler for help if you have one that can gank decently, JarvanIV Kindred come to mind. As soon as he throws the shadow to attack you, he basically is asking to get ganked as that removes his only escape bar flash. Roam, focus on wave clear, take raptors, do whatever you need to do to stay relevant and then team fight later on.

NarasimhaJan 23, 20161 votes

how do you not see how blatant and gross zeds laning phase is?

Sounds about fair. See, heres the kicker. You ONLY see people complaining about his laning phase. Why? Because the second team fights start to happen, he's pretty useless. He can't dive into a whole team and get out. Well, unless he's massively fed, but then pretty much any other champion could do the same. And on the other hand, you, the AP mage, are hitting your high point. Most mages LIVE for the team fight. It's where they shine. Should we nerf that aspect of mages simply because its what they're good at?

Very Hard EngageJan 23, 20162 votes

which is what makes him a toxic and broken champ who NEEDS changing.

lane = win. snowball = cripple enemy team and win. near impossible to deal with without something like a taric stun and major team follow up.

stay even and go 50/50 during lane. team fight? most likely lose the game, split push, and cause havok for enemy team? reasonable chance at winning if they send the wrong person to defend against you if not their whole squad.

lose lane ? how high/drunk were you? or how many did they send to camp your lane.... = probably lose the game as zed.

thats the problem, zeds just not a well designed champion. his kit is fluid and works with itself, but thats it, hes in no way balanced or healthy for the game.

people need to ask themselves -

when do you see an 0/3 zed whos 50cs down and struggling to farm under tower?

Answer- you dont

^^^^^^ thats the proof.

where riot promotes champion imbalance doesn't really exist, and everyone is supposed to be able to outplay each other.

ZeraphicusJan 22, 20165 votes

Needs buffs, needs 40% play rate because lc$ big plays

DerfelJan 23, 20165 votes

I like how the Zed fanboys immediately jump to the conclusion that I can't win against Zed. Anyone can win against Zed, you literally just pick Cho and make the game as stupid for him as he just made it for you by picking Zed. The difference between me and you reddit shit posters is I can call out a champs horrible design w/o needing first to lose a game to him.

For CarthageJan 23, 20162 votes

Short, simple, to the point.

I like it.

AHeroNamedHawkeJan 23, 20162 votes

Ahri and Brand mains complaining about other champions smh

JQKAndreiJan 23, 20162 votes

You can either cry about nerfs or reworks that will never happen (at least not how you expect them) or actually use your neurons to think about how to beat him or at least ask who knows how to beat him to tell you.

PePsiLemoNNJan 23, 20162 votes

He falls late game where everyone should have item 3140 item 3157

warmcorntortillaJan 29, 20162 votes

The most annoying thing about Zed is you basically have to give him this AMAZING early game to make up for the fact that he does jack shit in team fights. Yeah, you dodge all the damn shruikens, but they're always there, zoning you off CS. If you stand behind your minions he'll just waveclear through you all, once again for free. Oh, and since he brings 4 health pots to lane, burning through his HP is basically impossible. In a game where winning lane often times wins you the game, you end up with games where Zed is totally useless and just feeds (because he lost lane), or where Zed is a fucking god who eats through your team in one rotation (because he won lane).

Because he's AD, he will always have the potential to split push really hard and take towers fast as hell, and with his free flash, he gets to do it basically risk-free.

I think the most toxic thing about Zed is his build path, though, honestly. He buys a Longsword and 4 health pots, you buy a Doran's and 2 health pots. You have equal HP, so right off the bat, you have to work through twice as much HP as he does in lane. Once upon a time, you could freely harass him with AAs, but now if you do that, the wave will collapse on you, and he'll get to all-in you for free, because you have minion aggro and he doesn't. Then, after he all-ins you for free, you will be 1.) low on mana (because you're not using it to sustain your wave, but instead to put damage on Zed) 2.) your wave will be pushing in on you and you'll have to CS under tower as an AP champion, which is completely impossible on some mages 3.) you will have a health disparity that will continue to zone you off CS, making it harder to push with AAs, meaning you have to use mana (which you're already low on) to get creeps.

Okay, so now you go back. Let's assume you've made it to 6 in one piece, you have equal CS, and you're looking at what items to buy. If you use mana (which you probably do) you will need some form of mana sustain to keep up with him in lane. Or, you can buy a Seeker's Armguard to start working on being able to survive. So either you forgo the defenses and item you desperately need to survive him, or you forgo the sustain you desperately need to keep up with him. Meanwhile, what has Zed bought? More fucking long swords. You see, EVERYTHING HE BUILDS builds out of a longsword. He can probably get an entire half of an item, because he OPENED with part of his first item. He doesn't have to choose between sustain or damage or survivability. He can just buy a Hexdrinker and get all three of those things (because he doesn't need sustain) and not even put his build off, or crimp in his damage output. Oh, and let's not forget that Zhonya's doesn't give you CDR, whereas hexdrinker gives him CDR, which means MORE SHRUIKENS that he gets to throw for free, outranging every mid mage, eating through your HP with no repercussions.

Because the ACTIVE/PASSIVE (the part you actually give a shit about) is in the parts of the AD items, not the fully-built items, Zed can buy a QSS or a Hexdrinker and just leave it at that, going on to finish the rest of his build, and waiting to finish upgrading it till late game. However, mid mages HAVE to rush the FULL 3000 gold Zhonya's to have the active. Not to mention he's more mobile than you, and will just go bot lane, ult your low-HP ADC and blink back onto his shadow, return to lane with a free kill, picking right up where he left off.

If he does dive you under tower, and you've been playing safe, you will still likely die. Why? Because you haven't farmed 3000 gold yet and you can't outsustain him and when he DOES dive you, he goes untargetable, then teleports to safety, leaving you to literally wait under tower to die while he is happily farming canon creeps in your mid lane.

Many of his counters don't actually counter him until lvl 6, and most of them have a pretty shit early game (except maybe annie or kayle) and thus have just as much trouble against him as any other mana-dependent mid laner.

He's all reward, no punishment. If he does badly, he builds cheap items and waits for an opportunistic moment to get back in the game, using his insane wave clear and CS handicap passive to farm under tower. If he does well, he stomps your team. The only time he is truly punished is by a well-organized, team-fight-centric team that knows when to push for objectives. That honestly shouldn't be his only counter imho.

DunkinNoobsJan 23, 20161 votes

All you have to do to beat a Zed, just like a Leblanc, is not feed. Seriously. You will outscale him so long as you don't feed him multiple kills during the laning phase. Even if you accidentally die once, you will still outscale the Zed in the not too distant future. We get it, going into lane at a disadvantage from the beginning sucks. You know what else sucks? Losing by default if you haven't snowballed hard by 20 minutes. And frankly, in terms of "win lane" champs, Zed is far more tame than most. You can feasibly outplay a Zed and even kill him. Meanwhile Chogath Heimerdinger Jayce Malphite Pantheon Teemo Trundle Volibear Darius Vladimir are all more oppressive laners, easier to play, and aren't countered nearly as easily by just building 1 item.

BelvadereJan 24, 20161 votes

Um... no. Darius and heimer maybe, but the rest are not at all as zed/lb. True they do bully the hell out of a lane, but none of them are remotely as safe to play as zed/lb. THAT's the real issue with these champions. They are given 'outplay' mechanics which really just results in those champions becoming exceptionally safe to play. You might say that 'all you have to do is wait for her to use his/her jump offensively then gank' but usually that's only happening if they're actively chunking the midlaner who then has to shrug off the fact they lost 70+% of their hp and prepare to reengage. That's a lot to ask for in soloq especially since they know that if the gank goes poorly they will lose all semblance of lane control.

This is true of all 'outplay' champions. They always have extremely unfair kits that are often overloaded af to the point that they just don't have to deal with the issues that the champions they're 'outplaying' have to deal with. Its amazing watching all the cool shit that lee sin can do until you pick up that champ and realize he has amazingly fast AND healthy jungle clear, and enough combat steroids to out-duel most junglers without ANY cool moves or outplays at all. So if you wanted to invade and 'out-smart' the lee sin, good luck because he'll be @ 90+% hp for almost any given part of the jungle. YES he falls off later, but having a strong champion that has a kit to be ultra aggressive AND super safe at the same time is fairly unfun and I hope you can understand that.

This isn't meant to be a #nerfX post, but rather I'm hoping that people will realize that these bullying 'outplay' champions are straight up given a LOT of safety and the only way to beat most of them would be to ward, play smart and SLOWLY outscale.

TL;DR: The real issue isn't the bullying or pressure, but just how AMAZINGLY safe those 'outplay' champions are to play, and THAT is why ppl complain about/ban them more than the bullies you listed. The counter play just isn't there.

VoidbringersJan 23, 20161 votes

As an immobile mage main, I approve of this message.

Don't forget the other 6 lords of hell though: Leblanc Teemo Riven Yasuo LeeSin Kalista

Seriously, someone at Riot should get their community service badge for the year by finally hitting these champs with the nerf bat until they are in urgot tier, spasming on the ground, drowning in Mordekaisers' tears.

DerfelJan 23, 20162 votes

LB's kit is one of the worst designed in the game but she can be outplayed cause she has to actually go in to poke, even if it's for .25 of a second. Yasuo and Kalista are just as cancer but you can't really do anything about it it's just certainlyT's way of making the game unfun for anyone playing against his champs. Riven and Lee are too mobile but they can be outplayed cause ultimately their animations aren't instant.

VoidbringersJan 23, 20162 votes

I get that they can outplayed -- I just hate playing against them...a lot. The problem is that they are just frustrating to play against.

TenSpeedJan 23, 20161 votes

Hehehe, I know your pain as a main of both TwistedFate & Ziggs .

My punishment for those who first pick Zed is to pick Kayle and never let him CS.

I get instant rage whenever I enter game as Kayle.

Literally the other day someone said "**** you Kayle." in all chat as soon as I entered lane, when they picked Zed before me and expected me to pick a squishy mage.

It's so satisfying.

While Kayle isn't nearly as fun to play as TF for me the rage I get alone for repeatedly killing Zed and making his laning hell for him is well worth it.

cackles maniacally

Now if only I could find a champion that makes this guy's Yasuo laning phase a living hell. Perhaps Malzahar?

SnugglePuggle94Jan 23, 20161 votes

Now if only I could find a champion that makes this guy's laning phase a living hell. Perhaps Malzahar?

Annie shits on him. Morgana does very well too. Zyra is very well too just she's really squishy and skillshot dependent (her E).

Diana Nidalee can give him hell too

And finally, if you wanna make a Yasuo rage quit, take Chogath

protoss nubJan 23, 20161 votes

I've just started playing zed yea he's op

AndrionarJan 23, 20161 votes

How to win against Zed:

Lets say you picked Twisted Fate. I highly reccomend you taking armour yellows and you might also take armour per level blues, to make him feel usuless later on.

If you're wining you can buy whatever you want, you might rush even lich bane, if you're losing or equal, I highly recomend going for arm guard, second option would be catalyst.

You want to poke him early, then hes very vulnrable and make him choose between poking you and farming. Just don't stand near low health minions, becouse he will be able to last hit and poke you at the same time.

Then you know, zed has hes w up and ur going to last hit a minion, pretend that you're going to do it and make him waste hes abilitys, then last hit the minion. If zed didn't landed hes shurikanes, you will be able to zone him from farming, if he come to farm in to meele range punsish him, even if it means that u lose a minion, you will kill him or eventualy he will be forced to base. Try to track enemie jungler and ward the side of the river where from he might gank.

If you did equal against zed, you should push the lane and go roam bot or top or secure a dragon, you should avoid trading him if you don't have zhonyas or a back up from your team.