Malzahar has a 1% play rate mid
This is less than pre rework
[zombie-brand-clap]
Thanks Riot
Thanks
This is less than pre rework
[zombie-brand-clap]
Thanks Riot
Thanks
TK lost major amounts of playrate (and winrate, for that matter) both top and support after his nerfs in 6.13 and his jungle is no longer doable
it's the cycle of life and death - Jhin is allowed to have 55% playrate / 52% winrate and be called balanced, or Janna/Ahri/Vi/etc. can have extremely bloated winrate and playrates as well, but the moment a niche champion becomes strong they get blasted out of orbit
fuck generalists and fuck this game's balance team
[deleted]
Your op.gg says it all
Ye i miss the old Malz as well, you was able to oneshot everything be it an adc or a tank. Now he's like a "ranged" version or Aurelion Sol. Put down 2 poro-like things, press E, watch. Usually nothing happens. Before and after the shitty rework, ther's a hell of a nerf.
I miss playing Top Kench [zombie-nunu-bummed]
People playing against it don't.
Yah the slow health reliant tank who cannot interact with you within a minion wave who requires a telegraphed setup to even win a trade is unhealthy compared to poppy/fiora/camille/Mao etc.
It's mostly his broken Q hitbox, E, and R passive.
Tfw one of his first nerfs was cutting his Q hit box down
Anyways you're one to talk about obnoxious Q hit boxes
Cough Orb of Deception cough
And his R passive got moved to his innate in 6.13 and requires him to stack the damage he doesn't get it all at once anymore
Did you see that recent Tahm post where he legitimately threw his Q 90 degrees the wrong way and still hit the Kayle?
Ahri Q is mostly fine, just it expands slightly at the when it reaches its apex.
I still hate offensive power scaling with defensive stats.
Then show me the clip, if that's true it's not Tahm's fault its a glitch, same can be said of any skillshot being thrown out '90 degrees the wrong way'.
Are you kidding? Ahri's Q has one of the most infuriating hitboxes in the game. If you're anywhere near the end of the hitbox it does both procs of damage instantly and there's nothing you can do about it. Its wide and goes through minions as well, which Tahm's doesn't.
If Tahm didn't have his passive damage he'd be one of the most useless champions in the game and would need massive buffs to his base AD and Q and W damage. The only reason he can even go top is because he can duel other champions in a melee fight.
I feel like its a visual glitch, but nothing confirmed nor denied.
I mean, if you get hit at its apex, that means you had the most time to dodge, sooo...
That has nothing to do with Tahm Kench that's some sort of glitch. The same glitch could happen on any linear skillshot.
I mean, good luck every getting close to an Ahri, because she has 3 ways of deterring an engage, soo.......
It's one of the fastest projectiles in the game.
Why do we butt heads over this when neither of us will submit to the other?
Can we just go back to hating the state of Jhin together again?
Ayyyy I thought you'd never ask
He can't build lethality -> garbage champ.
Strangely enough, malz was a hell of a counter to things like zed back in the good old days. He would be played right now for counter meta if he hadnt been gutted.
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/scsc.gif
Thanks Riot.......#reverttherework
And
is played mid so infrequently that champion.gg doesn't even list mid as one of her positions.
This is despite Riot promising that they wouldn't leave behind her mid lane playstyle for her rework :^)
But he's certainly more popular now than he has been in a long time. Champions moving from one lane to another is common. Morgana started in the mid lane, then got sent bot as the meta shifted just like Malzahar. Diana was intended to be jungled, and Nautulis used to be there too before he became a support.
[{quoted}](name=l Kairos l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fuild051,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-19T14:24:52.278+0000)
But he's certainly more popular now than he has been in a long time. Champions moving from one lane to another is common. Morgana started in the mid lane, then got sent bot as the meta shifted just like Malzahar. Diana was intended to be jungled, and Nautulis used to be there too before he became a support.
The difference though is that they maintained/still maintain some viability in those respective roles. Morgana can still be played mid (doing a ton of damage with that ridiculous scaling), diana/naut can still be played jg (or mid, or top). Malz can literally only be played support now, as his clearly horribly worked kit (why did rito think giving him a banshees veil for a passive would make his kit "fair"?) has caused plenty of nerfs, none of which involve replacing his passive with something less game-breaking and buffing the rest of his kit around it.
"malz can literally only play support now" No he's still an above average mid according to riots statistics
"malz can literally only play support now" No he's still an above average mid according to riots statistics
Yeah, I don't actually trust rito's statistics anymore. After they tried to constantly force everyone to have a banshee's veil on them (whether it be through malz's passive, or making eon available to literally every AD character), I'm kinda suspicious of their behavior now.
If we're talking behavior, I find it hard to trust the company that went out of their way to bash their parent game for advertisement while they were starting up - Riot's behavior was always suspect.
Their statistics always seem wonky and that's what happens when you balance through that kind of medium without taking game health into account as much. Edge of Night was not an item made by considering game health. Spell shields can be plenty healthy, but I'll be damned if Edge of Night was going to be good for the game from the very start.
[{quoted}](name=l Kairos l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fuild051,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-19T14:24:52.278+0000)
But he's certainly more popular now than he has been in a long time. Champions moving from one lane to another is common. Morgana started in the mid lane, then got sent bot as the meta shifted just like Malzahar. Diana was intended to be jungled, and Nautulis used to be there too before he became a support.
NO, STOP THAT! I WANT MALZ MID, NOT MALZ SUPPORT!
NOT

[{quoted}](name= Maddened King ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fuild051,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-02-19T14:36:31.447+0000)
NO, STOP THAT! I WANT MALZ MID, NOT MALZ SUPPORT!
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
NOT
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
and i want
top mid and support not jungle.
but since when does riot care about screwing over the people who main the champ...
I actually think the jungle role fits nidalee's character very well.
Even before riot changed her to make her the best jungler in the game for some time, I was trying to make it work. It didn't go very well, but I tried.
I actually think the jungle role fits nidalee's character very well.
Even before riot changed her to make her the best jungler in the game for some time, I was trying to make it work. It didn't go very well, but I tried.
yes it does... I was actually the person who begged riot to let her jungle. (yes its my fault). and like a monkey's paw they did...
but i was going to "let her jungle" to try to "give her a 4th role"...
not to "let her jungle screw over every other role, then screw over her jungle after i made her a monster" so she cant do ANYTHING
AD bruiser Nid top was her most balanced role, imo, as sure she could kinda poke you, but she was very weak to all-ins pre 6, and needed the cougar form damage (particularly Q) to ever have kill pressure 1 v 1. Her rework was a goddamn disaster that completely butchered a character by first making her OP pick/ban in competitive for quite a while, then made her garbage when they nerfed that.
AD bruiser Nid top was her most balanced role, imo, as sure she could kinda poke you, but she was very weak to all-ins pre 6, and needed the cougar form damage (particularly Q) to ever have kill pressure 1 v 1. Her rework was a goddamn disaster that completely butchered a character by first making her OP pick/ban in competitive for quite a while, then made her garbage when they nerfed that.
i actually high disagree, first off, her rework was AMAZING. her rework was done in 4.11 she wasn't put into the jungle until 5.2, that was completely separate and had NOTHING to do with her rework, and happened in a completely different season AND YEAR.
2nd.. between patch 4.12 and 4.16 nidalee top was a monster. she had no counters period. right fixed her in 4.17 to be more ap and rightly so. which is why every time i as for a revert.. i ask for a 4.17 revert. because between 4.17 and 5.1.. she was balanced. in three roles.. in EVERY elo. you could lock her in first pick and the enemy had no idea what lane to counterpick you in, and at the same time i could just lock in and say "top mid or support" and then if they tried to counterpick you. you can have you teammate that that role instead and counterpick them. she was like the best flex pick her
Actually, not to be overly pedantic, but her rework was in 4.10, 4.11 was a set of buffs to her, like 50 more range on her w, 33.33% more width on her Q projectile, 10% more movement speed towards hunted targets, etc
V4.10
Gameplay Update General Basic attack timing updated New ability icons New Effect: Death Recap differentiates between human and cougar abilities Prowl.png Prowl In-brush bonus movement speed reduced to 10% from 15 New Effect: In-brush bonus movement speed increases to 30% while moving toward a visible enemy champion within 5500 range New Effect - Hunt: Damaging enemy champions with Javelin Toss.png Javelin Toss and Bushwhack.png Bushwhack marks them as Hunted for 4 seconds, granting Nidalee sight of them. Nidalee ignores unit collision and gains 30% bonus movement speed while moving toward marked targets, and her next cougar ability against them consumes the mark for an enhanced effect New Hunted particle Javelin Toss.png Javelin Toss Visuals updated to be more readable (lowered height on Z-Axis) Removed: Visually extending way far beyond actual hit range Maximum bonus damage range reduced to 1300 from 1500 (maximum travel distance unchanged) Minimum damage reduced to 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 / 150 (+ 40% AP) from 55 / 95 / 140 / 185 / 230 (+ 65% AP) Maximum damage 「 increased to 300% from 250 」 Projectile width reduced to 30 from 60 Bushwhack.png Bushwhack New Effect: Team color indicators Ground visual indicator updated to be more noticeable Trap targeting changed to single from area-of-effect Damage changed to 20 / 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 (+ 12 / 14 / 16 / 18 / 20% (+ 2% per 100 AP) of target's current health) from 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+ 40% AP) Damage over time duration increased to 4 seconds from 2 Duration reduced to 2 minutes from 4 Cost reduced to 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 from 60 / 75 / 90 / 105 / 120 Cooldown reduced to 17 / 15 / 13 / 11 / 9 seconds from 18 at all ranks Sight duration reduced to 4 seconds from 8 Removed: Reducing target's resistances Removed: Revealing stealthed units Primal Surge.png Primal Surge Heal changed to 45 / 85 / 125 / 165 / 205 (+ 50% AP) from 50 / 85 / 120 / 155 / 190 (+ 70% AP) Cost reduced to 60 / 75 / 90 / 105 / 120 from 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 Cooldown increased to 12 seconds from 10 Takedown.png Takedown Enhanced attack damage changed to magic from physical New Effect: Enhanced attack gains 75 bonus range New Effect: Prowl.png Hunted targets take 33% bonus damage Minimum damage changed to 4 / 20 / 50 / 90 (+ 100% AD) (+ 24% AP) from 40 / 70 / 100 (+ 100% AD) Maximum damage 「 reduced to 250% from 300 」 Pounce.png Pounce Targeting changed to cursor direction from where Nidalee is facing New Effect: Targeting changes to single if cursor is near a Prowl.png Hunted target within 700 range New Effect: Visual and audio cues when Prowl.png Hunted Pounce is available on a target New Effect: Killing a unit in cougar form reduces current cooldown to 1 second if higher than that when unit dies Damage changed to 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 (+ 30% AP) from 125 / 175 / 225 (+ 40% AP). Swipe.png Swipe Targeting changed to cursor direction from where Nidalee is facing New Effect: Hitting Prowl.png Hunted targets reduces Pounce.png Pounce's current cooldown to 1 second if higher than that when doing so Damage changed to 70 / 130 / 190 / 250 (+ 45% AP) from 150 / 225 / 300 (+ 60% AP) Cooldown reduced to 5 seconds from 6 Aspect of the Cougar.png Aspect of the Cougar New Effect: Available at level 1 (can be ranked up 3 times) New Effect: Cougar abilities scale with rank-up New Effect: Vision is granted as standard Removed: Granting 20 bonus movement speed while in cougar form Cooldown reduced to 3 seconds at all ranks from 4
The huge, huuuuuuuuge problem the update gave her was giving her double her previous movement speed steroid and giving another condition to trigger it, a better, lower cooldown, longer ranged resourcesless untargeted dash, with not one, but two different reset mechanic that then also became a 700 (750 post 4.11) range targetted gapcloser on a champion whose gapcloser you could previously juke or avoid. Oh, and that gapcloser, escape? It is now available at level 1 (most Nids in that time period, especially top started w first) so now Nid entirely lost one of the few weakness she had in that she now was slipery and hyper mobile, for free, for the entire game, instead of having an abusable early game which hyper mobile champions should have imo.
They massively boosted her mobility, greatly increased the range of her options, then added even more shit for her opponents to have to dodge and avoid, like making her traps into a 20%+ current hp shred (as well as re-classifying it as single target for purposes of rylai's and liandry's so AP Nid started actually dumstering bruisers and tanks with what used to be primarily a vision tool) oh, and it also now triggers a 700 range gapcloser on to your face, plus resets some of her other cooldowns.
This rework was the basis of the destruction of the character that was Nidalee. Notice how I never mentioned in that comment anything about the jungle? That's because I never made any claim about her jungling, and I know her patch history, apparently better than you, despite your assumptions to the contrary. With all the design problems introduced with this rework, Nid was a fundamentally busted laner that was not fun or really interactive in any way, while being far too safe, versatile and seemingly always having a response to everything her opponents could do. Felt great as a Nid player, but was absolute shit to play against-- I reffer to this as Lee Sin syndrome, see also Yasuo. They shoehorned her into the jungle because of her stupid, broken kit due to this rework, but it took them a while of trying and failing to balance it first. I would much rather have this Nid fight against monsters half the game than have some poor, unlucky soul have to lane against that monstrosity.
I actually think the jungle role fits nidalee's character very well.
Even before riot changed her to make her the best jungler in the game for some time, I was trying to make it work. It didn't go very well, but I tried.
it does make more sense and fit her its just that i bought her for her mid lane and i cant rlly jg
i still play mid Morgana. She is much stronger on mid lane than she is on bot lane.
Reasons: On mid lane, her passive ACTUALLY WORKS. You know, her passive actually heals her a lot when she gets to do constant damage to minion waves and build AP to improve her damage. Her W actually deals damage due to maxing it first and building AP.
No bad match-ups. Literally there's no counter. Look at the bottom of the page: http://champion.gg/champion/Morgana/Middle Morgana's win ratio on mid is around 50% mark (apparently 58% vs zed loool). She can just farm in every match-up. And her all-in provides a very solid lock down. Starting with a slow, into a stun into a snare for over 4 seconds lock down time. Her roams are more deadly due to the fact that she has the AP to improve her damage besides her already quite high amount of CC. And on mid lane, there's only you and the enemy. Your black shield can target only 1 player. And on mid lane, you don't sacrifice anything for using blackshield on yourself (while on bot you either blackshield the adc or yourself).
Also on the page above. You can see very well my point. Look at Mid Morgana's win ratio when the player used her a lot. 62% on 125+ games. Also look at Mid Morgana's win ratio compared to the game time. Good early, mediocre mid, beautiful late game. Now lets look at Sup Morgana's starts. Even "mains" of sup morgana only have ~57% win rate on her at 125+ games. And her time ratio is. Good early game, ok mid game, terrible late game.
You are maxing Q first, you are more reliant on that skill shot than Mid Morgana. And you have very big counters in: Sona, Janna, Nami, Zillean and Brand as far as the support position goes.
And all of this makes sense. Support Morgana, even tho she counters some tanks (Leona, Thresh, Blitz, Braum) with her blackshield. She only gets to effectively utilize 60% of her kid (QER), while her W and passive are basically worthless. Meanwhile, Mid Morgana takes advantage of everything in her kit.
There are actually a small amount of Bad match ups for Morg Mid,
for one. and black shield only stops his E's damage.(Not counting any of the CC you can block).
Other then that, I agree
Yeah, I've been maining Morgana mid this season, and i think I have around 75-80% Winrate. Definitely secretly good right now.
she's been like this for as long as i can remember, and easy good to play champion most people i knew hate playing her mid because she's "booooooooooooring" and that you have to support your team. We must play Zed, Brand, Oriana, Ahri, Kassadin!!!! Then again, there's very few champions that can carry if all their lanes lose hard.
she was my first main, and probably the only hero in this game that i can just "pick and play" without much practice on her. I still lost a zed match-up when zed got changed a while ago (they made his R spawn him behind you instead of in front, missed Q and he snowballed from that haha)
[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fuild051,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2017-02-19T15:44:21.537+0000)
i still play mid Morgana. She is much stronger on mid lane than she is on bot lane.
Reasons: On mid lane, her passive ACTUALLY WORKS. You know, her passive actually heals her a lot when she gets to do constant damage to minion waves and build AP to improve her damage. Her W actually deals damage due to maxing it first and building AP.
No bad match-ups. Literally there's no counter. Look at the bottom of the page: http://champion.gg/champion/Morgana/Middle Morgana's win ratio on mid is around 50% mark (apparently 58% vs zed loool). She can just farm in every match-up. And her all-in provides a very solid lock down. Starting with a slow, into a stun into a snare for over 4 seconds lock down time. Her roams are more deadly due to the fact that she has the AP to improve her damage besides her already quite high amount of CC. And on mid lane, there's only you and the enemy. Your black shield can target only 1 player. And on mid lane, you don't sacrifice anything for using blackshield on yourself (while on bot you either blackshield the adc or yourself).
Also on the page above. You can see very well my point. Look at Mid Morgana's win ratio when the player used her a lot. 62% on 125+ games. Also look at Mid Morgana's win ratio compared to the game time. Good early, mediocre mid, beautiful late game. Now lets look at Sup Morgana's starts. Even "mains" of sup morgana only have ~57% win rate on her at 125+ games. And her time ratio is. Good early game, ok mid game, terrible late game.
You are maxing Q first, you are more reliant on that skill shot than Mid Morgana. And you have very big counters in: Sona, Janna, Nami, Zillean and Brand as far as the support position goes.
And all of this makes sense. Support Morgana, even tho she counters some tanks (Leona, Thresh, Blitz, Braum) with her blackshield. She only gets to effectively utilize 60% of her kid (QER), while her W and passive are basically worthless. Meanwhile, Mid Morgana takes advantage of everything in her kit.
I have no problems against morg mid when I play
, (his Q is on a lower cooldown than morgs shield). Pre catalyst, he has to be on his toes but once he gets ROA there's not a whole lot she can do without a jungle gank, but in truth you don't see him mid much of the time so against all but some assasins, I can see her being good.
Pretty sure that even then there isn't a lot Cho can do to Morg though is there? They also have roughly equal late games but Morg has better pick potential which can ruin the enemies chance at teamfighting. Liandries will also burn down a Chogath late game.
its not a counter, its a farm lane still in morgana's advantage as she provides better utility: snare, slow, stun, anti cc shield vs cho's knock up and silence
and as you said, pick potential is higher for morgana. As are her roaming powers. Morgana doesn't really have counters at all, but its not like she counters people either ( maybe except the likes of zed or leblank). She's still better than support version :)
Also, Cho can't do anything versus morg's R W Q all in combo, he just have to hope he has enough HP and Mr to survive. Or have a countergank happen that moment. As in, you go close to the enemy (But not melee range), you R and you start auto attacking while moving around, you W right before the stun and then Q the stunned enemy before the stun wears off for more auto attacks and W damage :)
Cho could knock her up or silence her, but, her E will remove at least one of those options, if not both for the all in duration.
Yeah I know, Morgana mid spam was how I hit gold from Silver 5 in about 3 days last season. I haven't played the matchup specifically but the outcome is pretty obvious.
[{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fuild051,comment-id=0000000200030000,timestamp=2017-02-19T19:40:49.901+0000)
Pretty sure that even then there isn't a lot Cho can do to Morg though is there? They also have roughly equal late games but Morg has better pick potential which can ruin the enemies chance at teamfighting. Liandries will also burn down a Chogath late game.
Not a whole lot a morg can do against a chog once he stacks health. Early on before he can get a lot of health, morg can be tricky but once the health stack starts she just doesn't do enough damage. Not one on one anyway, one solid Q knockup on morg and she's food.
But then again, I also don't build chog AP. I build him tanky AP when I mid him. He doesn't do as much damage, but he has better endgame use and doesn't fall apart when somebody looks at him.
Seeing as there are over 100 champions, this statistic isn't that alarming. He's not a popular champion and people only played him when he was busted.
Malzahar pre-rework was at a 4-5% playrate. I especially found his adaptable kit and all its different applications fun. But then they (Riot) decided to force Malzahar to have certain combos and to forgive positioning mistakes by the bandwagoners via passive, which was boring.
When we complained, the community shoved his 6% playrate down our throats and said that he was a success.
Now we come back with his 1-2% playrate and the community tells us that isn't relevant to whether he was a success or not.
Go figure.
There are roughly 130 champions, but there are 5-10 champs in each game (Depending if we are including blind pick) For the sake of discussing gameplay in a competitive environment where the goal is to win lets use ranked as an example and say there are 10 champs in every game.
The perfectly average playrate for a champion would be 1 in every 13 games, or about a 7% playrate.
For a champion designed for mid lane, who was then reworked to make his gameplay more interesting his playrate should have stayed about the same if not rose. However he is no longer played in the role he was intended for, and his playrate is down to 1% from 4-5% in the midlane. That is a pretty huge difference.
The perfectly average playrate for a champion would be 1 in every 13 games, or about a 7% playrate.
Except that doesn't count when you consider the "meta" and how champions have counters and/or niches. If they pick a tank top, there's more of reason to pick a tank killer like Fiora. If they have a sustain bot-lane, a poke heavy lane would (in a perfect world) not be as good as a hardcore engage support/carry.
and then you have roles like jungle and mid which have the most diversity in terms of what is considered viable. AP Casters, AD Assassins, the occasional ranged ADC and even sometimes hardcore divers like Jarvan or tanks like Galio.
If there was no meta your idea might hold a bit more weight but as-is, you're neglecting too many outside factors.
Except Malzahar had a consistent 4-5% playrate mid. Since his changes there has been even more reason to pick him due to the current meta of assassins which Malzahar does quite well against since you have to poke down his passive which assassins aren't good at + his ult.
Despite that he has dropped to a 1% playrate mid, AKA 1/4th-1/5th of his previous playrate. For a champion designed to be a midlaner that is pretty clear evidence that something is wrong.
There's also more to it than that, however. Since his rework, there have been far different things in his lane. ADC mids weren't as common. QSS originally didn't have a build path. Perhaps most importantly of all, Malzahar's ult used to just gib people. Comparatively now, it's good for CC but it's not going to blow people up.
There's also the meta, where 1-2 champs can slam down damage like a drunkard with a beer. The change to Malz's ult means he's not as good at just one-and-done-ing someone. However, with support from someone, it's a death sentence. Which means Malz can either rely on the jungler -or- go bot lane and always have a buddy to rack up the DPS.
Note that I'm not saying Malz doesn't need changes (I think he'd be a good candidate for Mordekaiser-style tweaks that keep aspects of his rework but tweak/revert other parts of it) but to attribute a low playrate only to the rework ignores hundreds of other factors about the game.
(Also someone pointed it out in other places but Malz's playrate/winrate is higher on champ.gg, which accounts only for the highest level of play.)
And none of that should justify a mid laner getting a 75% drop in mid lane playrate.
thank god. Riot balance team did a fantastic job nerfing him tbh