This game is more about picks than skills

z63XnLCMwX··37 votes·1,823 views

Now with the smallest pick advantage, you're guaranteed a win in that lane instead slowly evening out with the enemy laner. That small advantage in champion kit will snowball into a large gold advantage by five minutes because there is absolutely no counter play. I can guarantee if the enemy is a Yasuo and I choose J4 to counterpick him, I'd win the lane 9/10, but if I pick J4 and enemy pick Zed, I'd lose the lane 8/10. Not because our skills our different, just because of how fast it is to snowball from having a kit advantage.

Before I hear the usual excuse of "If you main a champ, you'll beat someone first timing a counter-pick" I'd have to say that is extremely biased. In the scenarios of laning, this would be the most common outcome

You're a main - Enemy is a counter pick main -> You lose lane You're a main - Enemy is adequate at counter pick -> It's a fifty-fifty You're a main - Enemy is first timing a counter pick -> You win lane

You're adequate - Enemy is a counter pick main -> You lose lane You're adequate - Enemy is adequate at counter pick -> You lose lane You're adequate -Enemy is first timing a counter pick -> It's a fifty-fifty depending on the skill floor of champion

You first time - Enemy is a counter pick main -> You lose lane You first time - Enemy is adequate at counter pick -> You lose lane You first time - Enemy is first timing a counter pick -> You lose lane

Where you can see the lane is lost 6/9 times with 2/9 being a fifty and the final 1/9 where you would win the lane. Anytime the 4/5 member of the team was counter-picked, it's better to dodge than to play and hope your teammates skill surpasses the champion advantage of the enemy.

45 Comments

MadViking14 votes

I miss old league of legends.

UnboundHades8 votes

you do not miss dodge jax

nGio11 votes

I do. I miss him, 5 BF Kat, ap Sion, boomerang Shen, pre nerf ap and tank items, and everything else that gave us fun choices or unique abilities. Now, we just get streamlined meta stuff built for LC$, because we aren't playing League anymore, we are playing LCS simulator.

ImTheSideKick4 votes

agreed, I miss building what I felt like, long as it worked for me. now its build only one build every game because all other items are so subpar

Who is Taliyah2 votes

rip 6x sunfire evelynn

DuskDaUmbreon8 votes

I mean...most counterpicks are extremely minor, though. There are very few crushing counterpicks, and I could count them on my hands (Kassadin into Akali, for example, is one of the rare counterpicks where it's a giant "Fuck you" to the opponent). Most are instead closer to a 40-60 winrate against each other. And then there's counter picks at different stages (Ahri crushes Kat in mid-late game, but pretty much nobody beats Kat early on, for example).

Counterpicks are nothing. Hell, Echo Fox did an entire game where each of their picks was a counterpick to their opponent. And then they lost the game.

Cowseed2 votes

Even if an Akali plays into a God tier Kas they can just play pussy for the early game and roam later on.

Yenn5 votes

{quoted}

I mean...most counterpicks are extremely minor, though. There are very few crushing counterpicks, and I could count them on my hands (Kassadin into Akali, for example, is one of the rare counterpicks where it's a giant "Fuck you" to the opponent). Most are instead closer to a 40-60 winrate against each other. And then there's counter picks at different stages (Ahri crushes Kat in mid-late game, but pretty much nobody beats Kat early on, for example).

Counterpicks are nothing. Hell, Echo Fox did an entire game where each of their picks was a counterpick to their opponent. And then they lost the game.

Uhh what?

Counter picks are major, especially as you get to higher levels. If you can't win the 1v1, it becomes hard/impossible to follow your lane's roams if they keep clearing your vision. If you're top lane, the counter picks are even more major, to the point that you can often end up being dived from 100% health.

koshkyra1 votes

I was turret dived at 100% health by a level 5 vladmir today

Penns8 votes

losing lane doesnt matter anyway tho unless youre bot because thats the only role that matters heh

Jesus Is My King7 votes

you know whats killing this game? crowd controll on every single champion. RIP mid lane.

Mordepool2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The 1st Angel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OVkm8z9r,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-10-18T23:39:28.396+0000)

you know whats killing this game? crowd controll on every single champion.

Mordekaiser Been trying to show you bastards a better path for years.

Swollwonder6 votes

{quoted}

You're adequate - Enemy is adequate at counter pick -> You lose lane

Are...are you not supposed to lose the lane in which you're both even skill but their champion is a better counter to yours? Don't you come back and work with your team to fix this later in the game cause this game isn't about 1v1ing although it helps? Isn't this why "1v1 me bruh" is the dumbest shit you hear in bronze?

Yeah picks matter. They're not game breaking IF you work with your team and play as safe as possible while you're vulnerable.

z63XnLCMwX2 votes

{quoted}

Are...are you not supposed to lose the lane in which you're both even skill but their champion is a better counter to yours? Don't you come back and work with your team to fix this later in the game cause this game isn't about 1v1ing although it helps? Isn't this why "1v1 me bruh" is the dumbest shit you hear in bronze?

Yeah picks matter. They're not game breaking IF you work with your team and play as safe as possible while you're vulnerable.

I thought teamwork was a myth in soloque. I'm not saying it's limited to your lane, it's everyone. You can play safe. Can you guarantee your team play safe when they get countered?

Bobovich3 votes

If playing safe vs a counter means you give up lots of cs, then your counters gets stronger vs you, and you will become weaker for your team.

At some point this can become game changing.

For example - you need to tank, but you are not tanky enough you need to do damage, but you don't do damage

Jet Sett2 votes

Not to mention that if your counter can freeze the lane away from your tower you're essentially just there doing nothing. Winning lane is very important in most cases, and if you can't do that then you need to help other lanes. But if you're too far behind then you can neither of those things.

Blåbæret5 votes

Called it ages ago, but Rito wants to let Ghostcrawler continue on his destructive path, so I say let them. There are more games out there.

BigBellBrute4 votes

Counter picks have always been a part of lol. Even in non draft, someone might get lucky and counter you.

But the game has changed. When lol was much more sit back and farm up, counter picks didn't quite matter as much as they do now that it's a let's push and roam while they're stuck under their tower cleaning up minions.

Quepha3 votes

Not below Diamond. One tricks climb faster than anything else in low elo. You improve as a player much faster than if you hop around other champions.

Cowseed2 votes

five minutes because there is absolutely no counter play.

Are you one of those dudes that say "gg wp, top can't cs" when a player misses a minion and blames the jungler when you get ganked? Seriously can you be anymore pessimistic?

yoshi27902 votes

I don't feel like this is true at all. If you're better than your opponent it will show, the game isn't only laning phase, it's WAY more than that.. It is true, some champions counter other champions, but you're always able to outplay them, always.

Niaphim1 votes

Your complaint has some substance, but the argument you are presenting is not very convincing. It was almost always like this.

First of all, why are you considering first time yourself vs an enemy counter pick? If it's normals - ok, you are there to learn how to lane as said champion. If it is ranked, just stop first picking champions. Don't. It's bad. The only valid scenarios are either when you can play a champion adequately or when you main them.

Second, laning is just one part of the game. You can't say lane=game, it's low elo mentality. I've seen so many "I won my lane but lost game, why Rito?" posts that it became annoying. All those players had horrible macro skills past laning phase and didn't see how it was their issue, only paying attention to their KDA in the laning phase. The game is about two main phases: laning and teamfighting/splitpushing. While some strategies may not be valid right now, some champions come online AFTER laning phase, so you basically need to survive your lane to become useful later.

So it all boils down to the current meta and whether it allows to use different strategies or it is only hardcore snowballing. While the game is very snowbally and is often decided in first 10-15 minutes, I'd argue that this is not the case except for the botlane.

MuffledGarbage2 votes

uhh if the game is decided in the fist 10-15 minutes...

and laning phase takes up most of that 15 minute period...

wouldn't that effectively make you winning lane, make you win the game?

After all if you have more teammates that win lane phase, you have a bigger change of winning the game...

Niaphim1 votes

This is how it used to be - if you had more winning lanes you had more chances to win game - although still not guaranteed. However, right now except for botlane your lead is still a subject to throwing if you play top/jungle/mid. Only botlane can snowball so hard that it makes other lanes irrelevant - and it does. So what I want to say is in current meta you either make early game plays after winning your lane to secure bot lane lead or you survive lane to peel them later - and this will remain true until the botlane influence is nerfed.

MiD Enforcer1 votes

Tho mixing probability and skill is not right. 😎🤓

Semper144p1 votes

I beat a M7 Yasuo with Aurelion who Ive only played a few times. And their jg was a yi... Explain that.. I went 11/1/17 4/1/1 by 20 minutes

z63XnLCMwX3 votes

{quoted}

I beat a M7 Yasuo with Aurelion who Ive only played a few times. And their jg was a yi... Explain that.. I went 11/1/17 4/1/1 by 20 minutes

I don't know who counters who, but I'd have to say 1 game sample size isn't large enough.

Cowseed2 votes

But you're saying it's possible. A sample size of 1 is good enough to disprove the impossible. If it can happen once it can happen again. Counterpicks aren't the epitome of a winning strat.

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

{quoted}

But you're saying it's possible. A sample size of 1 is good enough to disprove the impossible. If it can happen once it can happen again. Counterpicks aren't the epitome of a winning strat.

What I said in my post is to paraphrase "the majority of the time" I never said it was impossible to win a countered lane.

MuffledGarbage1 votes

Aurelion is a 50/50 with anyone who isn't an artillery mage(on Lux Xerath Ziggs levels) , or ADCs later in the game(15 minutes in and 2 items)

Sp33d Zer01 votes

You assume that you are picking your main, and first timing a champion the same amount of times.

That sure sounds like a likely scenario.

Poske1 votes

Wait what As a yasuo Main I love playing against J4...

And shouldnt j4 be good against zed? Given that the only lane you ll face him is toplane... (zed toplane is bad)

Catastrophic1 votes

Why is zed bad in top lane?

Poske1 votes

He gets statchecked by bruisers and he cant snowball / outscale tanks

He doesnt have enough good matchups to be a good toplaner. And the matchups he is good against like Yasuo,Riven,Fiora (they have bunch of outplay potentional), yes zed counters them but in unstable way)

Hope this helps

Catastrophic1 votes

I agree with this, and also a big part of zed is his roaming potential and he doesn't have much access to that in top lane. Thanks, this did help!

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

Honestly the only time it's good to pick him top is against teemo, Gnar and maybe quinn imo.

StairCasexd1 votes

It's why I wouldn't main a champion who has like a bazillion counter picks in the laning phase. Like veiger. Especially a champion with not outplay potential, you basically lose without the junglers help.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

This is only true when both players are of similar skill level.

Any player that is more skilled than their opponent can overcome even a counterpick.

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

I just beat a teemo in lane as singed tho...

and honestly i can beat most of them that aren't lvl 7.

The Bad Touch1 votes

Lol went from a game based on building small advantages based game knowledge and build paths, CS ability, and teamwork... to one where you simple try to get first tower then babysit an ADC for half an hour so he can get 4-5 items quadra at Baron and GG paper towers.

I miss my hour+ games where no one knew who was going to win. Now you can guess at about 85-90% accuracy who is going to win by the 10 minute mark.

Hell I'm right about 75% of the time just looking at picks/bans.

Hell I'm also 75% accurate on the 5 minute window in which that team will win it...

Game feels more like fantasy football than LoL now.

Dengeden1 votes

Even when spectating games? I doubt it. You and other people give up easily, that's the problem,

Dengeden1 votes

A) That's why draft pick exists

B) Play Dota and watch how it compares

C) Aren't you the same type of person who will complain that junglers can gank 24/7? Which turns a lot of lane matchups on their heads?

D) Yasuo is a bronze pubstomper that shouldn't be taken into account in gameplay balance discussions

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

{quoted}

A) That's why draft pick exists

B) Play Dota and watch how it compares

C) Aren't you the same type of person who will complain that junglers can gank 24/7? Which turns a lot of lane matchups on their heads?

D) Yasuo is a bronze pubstomper that shouldn't be taken into account in gameplay balance discussions

I'm a jungle main so why would I complain about junglers that can gank 24/7?

Dengeden1 votes

I mean you'd complain about catchup EXP, don't you?

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

{quoted}

I mean you'd complain about catchup EXP, don't you?

I'm a jungle main. Catch-up exp benefits me so why would I complain about it?

More from Gameplay

More by z63XnLCMwX