why buff leblanc

DogshítPlayer·Dec 11, 2015·72 votes·3,493 views

I honestly do not understand why buff the champion that can take you from 100 to 0 with just q and w but Nerf swain who does the opposite and has room for counter play but you know do you rito.

71 Comments

Baron of BreadDec 12, 201518 votes

That is some serious hyperbole you got there.

LeBlanc simply is having a hard time right now. There are too many damage dealers per team so even if she takes out one enemy damage source it won't make much of a difference because her cooldowns will keep her from contributing for a bit. Making it so she can at least get that one person killed more reliably may help her out a bit.

BottleCapsterDec 12, 201513 votes

But isn't that the issue with reactive buffing right there? A champion doesn't do as well in a certain meta, so they get buffed. Once the meta that wasn't favoring them is gone, and they're back in their element, They get to be just like they used to, but with more perks and consequently run the risk of getting nerfed in other ways.

Baron of BreadDec 12, 20153 votes

Yes, but at least they are going slowly on this one. A bit more projectile speed on the chains will add a bit of reliability in getting her damage off without increasing the potential damage. If/when the meta shifts again it might not be a change that needs to be reverted because LeBlanc has always been reliable, she is just a little more now.

DogshítPlayerDec 13, 20151 votes

GLockChime lets make babies man!

MohawkBirdDec 12, 20152 votes

[deleted]

Baron of BreadDec 12, 20152 votes

LeBlanc is not supposed to. There are some assassins that are (Katarina, Akali) and most that don't tend to have a lot of AoE (Zed, Talon, Diana) or have a way to stay alive in a fight with sustained damage (Rengar, Diana). Leblanc however is almost all single target damage and has no resets or durability, once she kills one person she has to wait for a while (possibly the duration of a team fight) before she can contribute again.

Her job is to reliably kill one person and then twiddle her thumbs until her cooldowns are over. Most other assassins contribute more than that but aren't as reliable or safe.

DogshítPlayerDec 13, 20151 votes

doesn't a good lb sit back and try to aim her chains to peel and catch people out after she has done her job? (and waits for her cd)

TransgressorDec 12, 20152 votes

Is hyperbole the new FOTM word for the NA Boards? I remember a couple of months ago it was "ad hominem".

I have to keep up with the newest fads god damn it.

IcyPepperJan 11, 20161 votes

Keep in mind that ad hominem was the FOTM arguing tactic awhile ago.

I mean, why have a discussion at all when you can just call the other person bronze? :/

fééd l0rdDec 12, 20159 votes

Leblanc has counterplay. You can dodge the chain or the w. I admit it's hard to pull off but it is possible. There are tons of good items against her. Hexdrinker as AD carry is an option or if you play something like Zed. Zhonias will save your ass multiple times if you play something like Lux.

I can explain why Swain needed the nerfs. If he could manage to land his w one time you were almost guaranteed dead. three dots are just way too much. Dots and stuns are hella toxic when combined.

Earthlord JazzDec 12, 201511 votes

Not sure if this is a troll bait or not but I'll bite.

Everything you said for Leblanc's counterplay can be said for Swain's, EVEN MORE SO since his damage is DoT. 'You can dodge the circle.' And I won't even admit it's hard to pull off, there's a good second for the enemy to move out of the circle, but fails to do so cause of Swain's positioning. Admiral Ackbar is spinning in his grave right now. Zhonya's is even easier to pull of with Swain's DoT combo as you have ample time to invulnerable yourself.

You mention that Swain's DoTs are too much. Let me break down the damage for you:

Pulling off a perfect LeBlanc combo maxing W first, level 6 100 AP over around 1.5 - 2.5 seconds 190 + 225 + 180 + 320 = 915 magic damage 70 + 80 + 80 = 230 mana spent

Pulling off the perfect Swain combo maxing E first, level 6 100 AP over around 4 seconds, 3 of which in his ult this means that the enemy has to stay in range for 3 seconds of his Q tether and his bird form 165 + 150 + 235 + 210 + 85.4 (14% damage amp meaning he'd have to E before Rooting) = 845.4 magic damage 60 + 80 + 75 + 90 = 305 mana spent

This is not including LeBlanc's much more single target bursting route of maxing Q first instead of W.

So notice how even though Swain's damage should be quite significant due to his abilities being DoT, it still doesn't match up to LB's raw damage.

Granted, there are other things I'm neglecting to mention when it comes to a champions power budget but I have seem to have refuted the points you have mentioned.

And please don't ever say Swain's W is a stun.

My Waifu VanillaDec 12, 20152 votes

In all reality if you are melee or get outranged by swain (or just trying to run from him in general) it might as well be a stun.

A 2 second form of hard CC at rank 1 should never be allowed. Imagine if Morg Q rooted for 2 seconds at level 1. Yes, both are "easy" to dodge but you can miss 99/100 as long as that 1 you do hit matters and being able to max your CC ability LAST since it's effectiveness will stay relatively high all the way from level 1-18 is a bit of a problem.

To be fair though the nerf didn't even hit Swain THAT hard since he now loses out on like an extra auto or a tick of Q compared to before when he catches someone out early one which is not a huge deal or will make or break you getting a kill or getting out of a tight situation since the duration is still rather long.

Earthlord JazzDec 12, 20159 votes

Morg Q does root for 2 seconds at level 1 and scales higher with level up to 3 according to the League wiki.

Same with Lux ('cept no scaling). Both of these skillshots have just as much range if not more than Swain's W.

And can't your 'root might as well be a stun if you outrange' be applied to every snare in the book? Most mages with a snare have a larger range than Swain as well.

I feel like if Swain's kit really needed a nerf, they could've changed the root to a solid 1.5 seconds to make it more balanced for a skillshot root or actually nerfed the problem (which is his point-and-click DoT harass damage amp that makes him so good with Deathfire Touch).

3TWarriorDec 12, 20151 votes

if riot wanted things to be balanced, they would use flat values instead of complicated formulas, then the champion's damage would be much easier to balance around a mastery if a mastery were the problem

PoskeDec 12, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Earthlord Jazz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OUqtbFqf,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-12-12T03:32:15.600+0000)

Not sure if this is a troll bait or not but I'll bite.

Everything you said for Leblanc's counterplay can be said for Swain's, EVEN MORE SO since his damage is DoT. 'You can dodge the circle.' And I won't even admit it's hard to pull off, there's a good second for the enemy to move out of the circle, but fails to do so cause of Swain's positioning. Admiral Ackbar is spinning in his grave right now. Zhonya's is even easier to pull of with Swain's DoT combo as you have ample time to invulnerable yourself.

You mention that Swain's DoTs are too much. Let me break down the damage for you:

Pulling off a perfect LeBlanc combo maxing W first, level 6 100 AP over around 1.5 - 2.5 seconds 190 + 225 + 180 + 320 = 915 magic damage 70 + 80 + 80 = 230 mana spent

Pulling off the perfect Swain combo maxing E first, level 6 100 AP over around 4 seconds, 3 of which in his ult this means that the enemy has to stay in range for 3 seconds of his Q tether and his bird form 165 + 150 + 235 + 210 + 85.4 (14% damage amp meaning he'd have to E before Rooting) = 845.4 magic damage 60 + 80 + 75 + 90 = 305 mana spent

This is not including LeBlanc's much more single target bursting route of maxing Q first instead of W.

So notice how even though Swain's damage should be quite significant due to his abilities being DoT, it still doesn't match up to LB's raw damage.

Granted, there are other things I'm neglecting to mention when it comes to a champions power budget but I have seem to have refuted the points you have mentioned.

And please don't ever say Swain's W is a stun.

Deathfire touch

ITS BECAUSE OF FKING DEATHFIRE TOUCH

do the math again with deathfire touch and you ll see

Unlike swain le bl requires skill

Swain can be a monster with freaking 50 farm

And no good le bl ll ever max q firs so....

Swain has sustain which makes him tanky Swain has insane aoe damage Swain has everything point and click beside w ... and hiting that w can be a kill since it is a high range zone spell ..

Swain was Hidden op once deathfire touch came. You could even go lyandri on him and make that deathfire touch touch enemies for a long time

What buffs is Le bl getting ? I dont even know As le bl main I am 100% certain she doesnt need a buff.. could give my opinion if I knew what da fak the buff is in the firstplace

BetaDude40Dec 12, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OUqtbFqf,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2015-12-12T11:44:38.318+0000)

Unlike swain le bl requires skill

And this is where I stopped reading.

Seriously, the last time I played her, I quite literally mashed the keyboard to kill people.

I'm not even fucking joking, either. Most people tend to think of it as a joke. I didn't. I actually just beat the QWER buttons like a fucking monkey and got some kills. Given, it was an ARAM match, but It still stands.

The skill that she requires is mostly just "Memorize and successfully execute a very specific combo". Not much play decision is required when you can instantly teleport back after unloading your burst. And yeah, she's squishy, but so is every other assassin, yet somehow, she's safer than almost all of them because of the W recast.

Swain, admittedly, is pretty strong given he can get his regen and he knows how to play Swain. Swain can contribute a lot more to teamfights than Leblanc's almost exclusively single-target damage can do.

Does Swain need nerfs, though? I don't think so. Does LeBlanc need buffs? No, she probably just needs a minor rework (preferably not on the Mordekaiser level...) because her "skill cap" is negated by just playing her for a couple minutes and managing a combo.

Earthlord JazzDec 12, 20152 votes

Hi there,

You'll notice in my previous calculations that the LB was maxing W first, I'm not an idiot. Even when she is not focusing on her single target burst damage (which Swain does) and is going for more waveclear/mobility options, she still outdamages Swain's combo, which was the main issue of discussion.

As for your other suggestion of applying masteries into calculations

Leblanc ADDITIONAL damage with Thunderlord's Decree wih 100 AP: 60(base) + 10(ap%) = 70 extra damage in about 1-1.5 seconds

Total combo damage: (70) + 915 = 985 magic damage

Swain ADDITIONAL damage with Deathfire Touch with 100 AP: Deathfire Description: Damage over time: 1 second for a total of 2 (+12.5% bonus AD) (+5% AP) magic damage. If I'm doing calculations again, I said a perfectly executed Swain combo will span around 4 seconds of DoT 4 * (2 + 5) = 28 extra damage in about 4 seconds

Total combo damage: (28) + 845.4 magic damage

Am I missing something? I'd also be happy to factor in even the damage amp on FREAKING SWAIN'S AUTO ATTACK!

Level 6 additional damage from autoattacks with E(torment) which is 14% at rank 3, he's at level 6 remember: let's say he can get 3 in during the 4 seconds, his attack damage at level 6 is 70.04 (70.04) * .14 = 9.8056 additional damage per autoattack

9.8056 * 3 = 29.4168 additional damage

Swain total combo damage WITH ENHANCED AUTOS: 874.8168 damage which is still lacking LeBlancs damage.

I can hear your complaint that I didn't factor in Swain's AD bonus per level in the deathfire touch calculation....but I didn't do that for LB either so I think it's fair and math bores me.

As per your other arguments

Swain has sustain that makes him tanky true cause he purchases those items that run well with his kit. He's investing gold into heath and mana items that other mages do not view valuable. LeBlanc's purchases achieve her goals or massive burst damage
He does have good AoE, but it's reliant on him being nearby the enemy (since he used to max W last it was very low damage). Thus, we need tank stats and sacrifice single target burst and put ourselves in danger, thus Swain buys Zhonyas to remedy that issue.
Yeah that's true no argument there.

I can list LB's good qualities as well as her bad. I'm sure as a LB main you know them better than I, but just listing a champions good qualities does not in my mind justify an argument

Sir YamazukiDec 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Leblanc has counterplay. You can dodge the chain or the w. I admit it's hard to pull off but it is possible. There are tons of good items against her. Hexdrinker as AD carry is an option or if you play something like Zed. Zhonias will save your ass multiple times if you play something like Lux.

I can explain why Swain needed the nerfs.** If he could manage to land his w one time you were almost guaranteed dead**. three dots are just way too much. Dots and stuns are hella toxic when combined.

Uh, welcome to literally every single mage based around landing a cc, if Lux lands a Q then you die, if Morg lands a Q you die, if Annivia lands a Q you die, etc etc. Also, this applies to LB, if she lands that E you die.

TwinkieProDec 12, 20151 votes

q-w-r is enough as it is, almost no chance to dodge it as well. Only downside is that short range.

ChaosThiefDec 12, 20159 votes

Swain late game is a raid boss that stands in the middle of your team and doesn't die.

Leblanc can murder one person reliably.

Spicy RiceDec 12, 20154 votes

and then a 2nd 15 secs later, and then a 3rd, and then a 4th, and then a 5th,

ChaoticPineconeDec 12, 201512 votes

and if a teamfight lasted those 75 seconds, you might have a point

BetaDude40Dec 12, 20152 votes

I have a strong doubt Leblanc can instantly kill a tank every 15 seconds. Her burst is good, but not THAT good.

ModKnightsKemplarDec 13, 20151 votes

Build executioner's. Late game Swain isn't even that strong.

ChaosThiefDec 13, 20151 votes

He doesn't heal as much, but he still hurts.

And having zhonya's with his ult isn't a walk in the park either.

ModKnightsKemplarDec 13, 20151 votes

He is not a late game carry, though. I understand he has some power then, but let's not pretend he's some crazy late game carry with enough mobility and damage to 1v5 your team. He has to walk in.

DogshítPlayerDec 13, 20151 votes

swain is not lane dominant if you play many champion kat fizz annie lb come on fam

DogshítPlayerDec 13, 20152 votes

Chaostheif ignite and morellos and the new ad item for gw THEY GAVE HIM EVEN MORE COUNTERPLAY THIS SEASON i do not.. i dont... this whole season has been just a nerf to him but YA KNOW BUFFING ZED LB TRYNDAMERE AND YASUO is alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll fun right cause there so much fun and being crit to death at lvl 2 or 4 and being chunked at lvl 2 by lb and all in at lvl 3 by her

ChaosThiefDec 13, 20151 votes

Yes, they have more options. The key word here is "have."

More ADCs may still build the giant slayer because it grants more damage rather than a highly situational grevious wound. That isn't the main issue here though:

Swain is still a mage. He still deals a good amount of magic damage despite being nearly fully build as a mage and having the tankiness of a bruiser. It isn't just his healing that makes him strong. Swain is an underrated champion, like quite a few are in the league.

Maximum MordeDec 12, 20155 votes

They need more LC$BIGPLAY$, $o they buff the fla$hy champ$.

3TWarriorDec 12, 20151 votes

summoner 4

then toss in a few $'s XD

LOL SpammerDec 12, 20151 votes

Leblanc isn't even played in the LCS.

DogIsGodDec 12, 20154 votes

why buff leblanc

For having a below 45% win rate for over 5 patches being overshadowed by Swain's 53%+

why buff the champion that can take you from 100 to 0 with just q and w

No she can't. I could go into a custom right now and show you that I need at least 3 items and 10 levels over someone to do that.

Nerf swain who does the opposite

Of course he does the opposite. Since when was Swain a bursty assassin? If I remember correctly he's a DoT mage.

aperson1Dec 12, 20153 votes

Not to mention, of all the possible things they could buff they chose missile speed. Yes, give the champ who is renowned for having little counterplay even more room to hit her ONE skillshot. Whatever happened to Morello's "no such thing as too much counterplay"? Of all the champs who should get a faster skillshot, LeBlanc is the absolute LAST one I'd think of.

TransgressorDec 12, 20153 votes

100 to 0 with just q and w

This is why nobody will take you seriously.

Joe DreddDec 12, 20152 votes

Swain Counterplay

Yea, total counterplay when he presses e qw ignite at anytime for a kill. And no, you can't dodge swain w if he actually q's you beforehand unless he just straight up misses

Earthlord JazzDec 12, 20153 votes

I agree, you can't if your an immobile champion, which means you are given other tools to combat this advantage such as a larger range or more DPS or Annie. Playing against Lux as Swain has got to be one of the worst experiences of my life...that or a good Azir

If you're a mobile champion you are given tools to escape his the Q W combo with your mobile ability.

PuynsiDec 12, 20152 votes

Leblanc can still 100-0 squishies, you know, the whole point of her playstyle. She doesn't need nerfs nor buffs, shes in a good spot, honestly I don't have issues with her until late game. Also the Swain nerf was just a love tap so dumb people can stop QQing about not being able to dodge his slow ass root.

AezanthyaDec 12, 20152 votes

Every immobile mage champs will get insta nerfed if they ever get played. Every hypermobile assassin/champ/overloaded champ/broken as hell champs will get compensations buffs or straight buffs if they ever fall behind.

That's how Riot works.

Gregor GysiDec 12, 20154 votes

I'd suggest you to look into statistics before making assumptions about balance just by your perception.

Left Hook LarryDec 12, 20152 votes

Both Swain and LB are cancerous when strong. You idiots just don't use your head.

SouL1essDec 13, 20152 votes

Chains needed that buff.

Without the speed increase, its a 500 range skillshot that goes 800 range, but will never hit at 800 range because it is so ridiculously slow.

Increasing the speed just makes it an actual skillshot instead of a melee skillshot, like how it is used now.

Lady HammerlockDec 12, 20151 votes

HP+MAGIC RESIST fucks lb so hard

420 StylishDec 13, 20151 votes

They buffed the thing she shouldn't even have in the first place in my opinion, which is CC. I'd understand a slow on her, maybe something similar to Zed in terms of effectiveness. Her E should be a skill-shot based projectile that only slows and scales as follows 「 SLOW: 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40% 」(Zed's slow scaling).

Full BrainDec 13, 20151 votes

http://45.media.tumblr.com/5f8d8455e0527e68d5c443f0aff0730e/tumblr_np77a10aPM1urx8dno7_500.gif

A LiberalDec 13, 20151 votes

Because she's been shit since they removed the silence and nerfed her AP ratios on ulti.

I do think projectile speed is not the thing they should have buffed, but she does need some buffs.

hotarseDec 13, 20151 votes

I will add to the chorus of "WTF are you thinking RITO? Why are you buffing Leblanc?"

Yordle XayahDec 15, 20151 votes

Annie Annie Annie Annie Annie Annie Annie Annie Annie Annie Annie

MyNameIsFaranJan 11, 20161 votes

FUCKING CANCER

MyNameIsFaranJan 11, 20161 votes

LB main first thing is first: idk when but when lb hit that nerf with her missle speed she was compleate shit how you ask. i got 2 shoted by draven 10 time how you ask becase the w and the e were so fucking slow to hit the target it would die by autos 2ed thing the buff she got as helped me play her effectly how becase of this combo w qre why this combo in stead of qrw or eqrw or any other becase the w is fucking slow as fcuk