Just wondering why is Janna not being looked at for nerfs

Frosted Tips··3 votes·979 views

Janna is consistently above a 52% winrate with a 10% or higher playrate which is high also. She is never really a bad pick and doesn't have any counters in lane. Her playstyle is completely reactive unlike most defensive supports like Morgana, Lulu, and Karma. She is an extremely frustrating champion to play against because she makes lane extremely farm heavy and she is very hard to gank. I was just wondering if anyone else felt this way or could explain why she is allowed to stay like she is?

Edit: I would like to hear from both people that agree and disagree with me so feel free to comment your opinion I would like to discuss.

27 Comments

HeilHiem2 votes

Personally the way janna is is fine. there are no reasons for her to be nerfed and there are no reasons that there should be a nerf.

I would expect them to rework her to be more then what she is so she can be more of a support like lulu, morgana and karma,(and i would not call those three defensive for how offensively dangerous they are.)

Every so often you will see janna in the patches with something they did to her which is more a joke then anything because it doesnt make playing her an different then now.

janna just happens to be in a good spot.

Frosted Tips2 votes

I mean I personally want her to get reworked. Also I don't know how you can call the other three not defensive. Maybe in lane they may not be 100% defensive, but for the most part when grouped they are used defensively if the game is even Morgana may go for a pick but that is the most offensive she will usually go if her team is even.

HeilHiem1 votes

{quoted}

I mean I personally want her to get reworked. Also I don't know how you can call the other three not defensive. Maybe in lane they may not be 100% defensive, but for the most part when grouped they are used defensively if the game is even Morgana may go for a pick but that is the most offensive she will usually go if her team is even.

the other three are not considered defensive like janna is, since they all have a good ap scaling and they can output alot of damage even with only support items.

i play them alot and never play them defensively unless i want to lose the game.i know that alot of gold 5 players and below play like that and it never turns out well.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Aside from lane phase those champs do negligible damage unless they build sub optimally and Karma after lane phase is a shield bot with a slow. Karma and Lulu offer almost zero damage mid to late game and are utility supports which utility supports are mainly defensive or have good crowd control. I have played a lot of Karma and she does significantly well mid to late game being played 100% defensively.

HeilHiem2 votes

{quoted}

Aside from lane phase those champs do negligible damage unless they build sub optimally and Karma after lane phase is a shield bot with a slow. Karma and Lulu offer almost zero damage mid to late game and are utility supports which utility supports are mainly defensive or have good crowd control. I have played a lot of Karma and she does significantly well mid to late game being played 100% defensively.

dont take this the wrong way, but how much experience do you have in league because i never have to worry about the damage when playing those three at all, and my karma and lulu end up with good damage all game instead of just the laning phase.

so sorry but i know more then just me are disagreeing with your decision of putting three of the highest damage supports on the defensive, nami and janna are the only two squishy champs that are seen as defensive.

so i dont know where you are getting your information, but its wrong.

Frosted Tips2 votes

I have played this game since thresh release and I have 75000 mastery score on Karma she was one of the two supports that I used to get to diamond the last two seasons so I would say that I am well versed on what she can do.

HeilHiem1 votes

{quoted}

I have played this game since thresh release and I have 75000 mastery score on Karma she was one of the two supports that I used to get to diamond the last two seasons so I would say that I am well versed on what she can do.

i still have to say you are not since i have been playing for much longer, i may be using a smurf, but karma can still get you to diamond pretty easily.

there is a reason that morgana,lulu and karma are considered kill lane in the bot lane not farm lanes

Frosted Tips1 votes

I did not say they are not kill lanes I have said multiple times that after early game (lane phase) they do very little damage. Also I did not say they could not get you to diamond. I actually believe any champion has the capability to get you to diamond since diamond is not that hard imo to get into.

HeilHiem2 votes

{quoted}

I did not say they are not kill lanes I have said multiple times that after early game (lane phase) they do very little damage. Also I did not say they could not get you to diamond. I actually believe any champion has the capability to get you to diamond since diamond is not that hard imo to get into.

again i will have to tell you, you are wrong that so called little damage they do is not little.

you say you know karma really well, yet when i play her, full support items and max level in game, im still hitting any of the enemy players,(including tanks) for half their health in one or two shots, same goes for morgana and lulu.

the only thing defensive about them is how you play them not most people.

Frosted Tips1 votes

So if what your saying is true than you must be outleveling the enemy team drastically or you are just lying she does not do much damage especially to tanks if she builds full support.

HeilHiem2 votes

{quoted}

So if what your saying is true than you must be outleveling the enemy team drastically or you are just lying she does not do much damage especially to tanks if she builds full support.

well for one im not lying and two i always am the last to finish leveling with the items i do yet im still out putting more damage then most players who support with full support runes,masteries and items.

its like i said, im not doubting your playing experience just that you dont know what alot of champions can do and how they are ment to be played.

i also do my job as a support main very well which is why 90% of the time i am outleveling them pretty fast

Frosted Tips1 votes

So if you are telling the truth could you post your match history of your main account so I can see the numbers then I will believe you.

HeilHiem2 votes

{quoted}

So if you are telling the truth could you post your match history of your main account so I can see the numbers then I will believe you.

so quick not to trust anyone, how do i know you are not the only lying about it, and im not posting my main becuase that just stupid, you can choose what to believe or not, but do no go around calling someone a liar because you are too proud to accept you might be wrong.

ill feel sorry when you have to fight me in the bot lane as one of those three and you see exactly what i am talking about.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Lol you are actually a troll it is great I will atleast post my opinions on my main account and take the consequences unlike you while you are just spewing lies. Also I'm done responding to you because I just wanted to see proof that I was wrong since I don't see it from any of the games that I play with or against those champs but you do guess I will never know if the do damage.

HeilHiem1 votes

{quoted}

Lol you are actually a troll it is great I will atleast post my opinions on my main account and take the consequences unlike you while you are just spewing lies. Also I'm done responding to you because I just wanted to see proof that I was wrong since I don't see it from any of the games that I play with or against those champs but you do guess I will never know if the do damage.

you have seen proof, in all your games, and calling someone a troll because they are not going to be bullied into something from someone that wont be doing anything but being a dick when there is proof in every game that is played with those three champions.

the fact that you wont respond anymore means you already know im right and are trolling the boards to piss people off.

KawaiiShroom2 votes

She has low playrate only mains play her.

Frosted Tips3 votes

10% is not a low playrate...

TSM Sky2 votes

Hello, Janna main here with over 300k mastery points total across two accounts and level 7 Mastery on both of them. I've been playing her since Season 2, since I started playing League of Legends, and I think that makes me qualified enough to contribute to this discussion. Supports of the Enchanter archetype, like Janna, Lulu, and Karma, are strong in laning phase when played well. Any inexperienced player on those champions will struggle against strong, smart opponents who understand Janna's strengths and limitations better than the Summoner playing them. I'm not saying Janna is balanced, because there is one change that I think could be healthy for her, but I do agree that she's in a good position right now. However, her good position is not because her kit is inherently overpowered. She is very reliant on her teammates' ability to perform well. Even if you perform well and to the best of your ability on Janna, you cannot carry a match single-handed.

"She is never really a bad pick and doesn't have any counters in lane." I disagree with this. Janna's hardest counter has always been Blitzcrank Blitzcrank. She has no mobility aside from summoner 4 Flash, which makes her extremely vulnerable to his ability to chain his crowd control together and silence her. Sona Sona is another strong counter to Janna because, in terms of mana, Sona can always out-sustain her. At level 5, Janna's shield costs 110 mana and shields for 240 damage. Although Sona's Q only deals 160 damage at rank 5, it only costs 65 mana as well as hits two enemies. It also prioritizes champions. Thus, as Sona, you will always be able to efficiently harass Janna, the ADC, or both. The last strong counter I would say is Thresh Thresh. This is for the same reasons as Blitzcrank, but to a lesser extent. Thresh and Blitzcrank are able to pull Janna or her ADC out of position, and Janna can't reposition herself or her carry if they get hooked by their Qs. Unless you and your ADC are already ahead in levels or have Summoner Spells, getting hit by either of their Qs usually results in one or both of you dying.

"She is an extremely frustrating champion to play against because she makes lane extremely farm heavy and she is very hard to gank." This is true. Janna's abilities is designed to babysit her ADC and teammates throughout the game. However, she sacrifices damage in order to fulfill this role. On average, I deal 4000-6000 damage to champions as Janna. I build item 3303 Spellthief's Edge into item 2301 Eye of the Watchers. I max her Howling Gale (Q) after her shield in order to lower its cooldown and increase its base damage, and I still have difficulty dealing significant, meaningful damage to enemies. If you want to gank Janna's lane, you have to commit more than three people to the gank if she has her ultimate, a lot of mana, and most of her health. Janna can survive a 3v2 turret dive if played correctly. She and her ADC cannot against 4-5 people. Basically, you want to overwhelm her with numbers and force her to use Monsoon (R) and Howling Gale sub-optimally. Pulling off a successful gank on Janna and her ADC can equate to bottom turret and dragon.

I think she's allowed to stay like this for some of the reasons mentioned before, and for some that I've mentioned. You have to be good at her, or better than your opponents, in order to succeed in laning phase. She needs both experience as well as items in order to do her job as an Enchanter well (her cooldowns are long at early levels without CDR). She is very reliant on the competence of your teammates, but you also need to understand her strengths and limitations in order to perform effectively.

One change I would make to her kit, if I had to nerf her, is reduce the length of her shield duration at skil levels levels 1 through 4. Basically, I would change the skill from being "Shields an allied Champion or turret for 5 seconds..." to "Shields an allied Champion for 1/2/3/4/5 seconds..." This will make her reactionary playstyle more intensive and less forgiving. At level 1, her shield should be serving one of three purposes: protecting against harass; harassing; or skirmishing. If you use E at level 1 on an allied Champion without reason, the amount of safety they have is reduced from 5 seconds (5 second duration, 10 seconds cooldown) to 9 seconds (1 second duration, 10 second cooldown).

A second, stronger nerf I would consider making to her is having her Q's ability to knock up enemy champions scale with level, or only knock up the first enemy champion it hits. So, instead of reading "At the end of the duration, or upon reactivation, the whirlwind launches itself in the target direction, dealing magic damage to all enemies it passes through and knocking them up for 0.5 - 1.25 (based on seconds charged) seconds," it would read as "At the end of the duration, or upon reactivation, the whirlwind launches itself in the target direction, dealing magic damage to all enemies it passes through and knocking up 1/2/3/4/5 enemy Champions for for 0.5 - 1.25 (based on seconds charged) seconds." This change would emphasize her need to have experience (levels) in order to perform her job as an Enchanter effectively.

I hope this helps!

Frosted Tips1 votes

Thank you this is actually helpful and I like what you would change if you had to I agree with a good amount of your post I still think thresh is not that good of a counter his hook is slower than blitz hook so not to hard for Janna to dodge but I can see blitz and sona.

Buffy4321 votes

Janna excels in solo queue where she can fix her teammates mistakes. In coordinated play, she is almost never picked. Janna is actually not that difficult to gank early, due to her high mana costs and small health pool. Janna's Q is the slowest moving skill shot in the game, and if she misses it, she will have a pretty hard time kiting anyone off her carry if her ult is on CD.

If Riot were to shave power of Janna, they should start by looking at her passive. Her current win spike is due to how effectively Coin Stacks with Tailwind, and Tailwind isn't exactly the most interesting of Passives. I'd like to see her get something new there entirely.

Frosted Tips2 votes

I understand she is not great in pro play but league is supposed to be balanced around all play not specifically pro play. Janna can just hold her Q until you are on top of her and guarantee it hits. I don't know the last time she was below a 52% winrate with a high playrate.

Buffy4321 votes

{quoted}

I understand she is not great in pro play but league is supposed to be balanced around all play not specifically pro play. Janna can just hold her Q until you are on top of her and guarantee it hits. I don't know the last time she was below a 52% winrate with a high playrate.

If Janna is holding her Q until you are on top of her, the knock up isn't going to last long enough to do much of anything - additionally, it is fairly difficult to time Q negating something like a Gragas body slam.

Janna will always be strong in solo queue due to how her kit functions - it's just the nature of a peel-defined support. Janna pays for this by having high mana costs, low damage, a low health pool and long cooldowns. This is why she's balanced, regardless of her current win rate. Janna's only current problems are her ability to health stack with Redemption/Locket (Redemption should not be giving health if Riot wants it to be made for Enchanter Supports), and her incredibly strong passive that needs to be reworked to something engaging. The rest of her kit is fine.

Frosted Tips2 votes

Just curious with your thoughts on this then why besides Janna and Soraka do most of the other peel supports have low winrates?

HeilHiem2 votes

{quoted}

I understand she is not great in pro play but league is supposed to be balanced around all play not specifically pro play. Janna can just hold her Q until you are on top of her and guarantee it hits. I don't know the last time she was below a 52% winrate with a high playrate.

its not the point of holding her q or anything like that, its the point that he is right with her being great for solo q, and as much as i know about her and ganking, well lets just say its not easy to get away from a gank with her if you are ganks, since not only is her q the slowest skill shot but the slowest to prepare and least damaging as well.

also he wasnt talking about pro play, he was talking team play in general.

nm10101 votes

Her playstyle is completely reactive

That is why, she can only stop you from doing things which makes it pretty hard for Janna players to play an active role in making plays. Essentially she is allowed to be slightly overtuned since she can't actively carry games without the enemy team making mistakes.

Frosted Tips1 votes

I see what you mean but if she is consistently at a high winrate and playrate then she is overtuned too much and is carrying just in a peel way.

nm10101 votes

She punishes mistakes regardless of winrate it is hard to justify nerfing her for that. I say that as an assassin main :P

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