Things Ryze needs

Meserion··3 votes·942 views

Ryze wiki page

Since his rework Ryze has been very "MEH" in terms of potency. Now of course Riot are tweaking numbers but I think its more than just numbers that are the problem; well atleast more than damage numbers. His whole kit feels kinda sluggish in delivery, I have a hard time doing "tons of damage" with him because his E Spell Flux feels like it barely does any damage, and then at random it does absurd damage and I haven't a clue as to how it happened. His Q doesn't do enough damage, whether you go AP or Mana based it still feels wimpy. His W is ok, but unless you rank it up 1st, the root duration leaves much to be desired.

His passive has an unclear explanation of how it works:

Ryze's spells grants a stack of Arcane Mastery for 12 seconds, stacking up to 5 times. At 5 stacks, Ryze becomes supercharged for 3 + (1 × Desperate Power's rank) seconds, gaining a shield that blocks 「 20 + (5 × Ryze's level) 」(+ 8% of his max. mana) damage For the same duration, Ryze's spellcasts reduce his other spells' cooldowns by 「 Overload's cooldown 」, able to be brought to a minimum of 0.25 seconds.

To translate: Every 5 spellcasts, Ryze gains a shield of 25/30/35/40/45/50/60/65/70/75/80/85/90/95/100/105/110/115 (+8% of max mana) for 3 seconds (+1 second per rank in your ultimate) and gains arcane mastery buff. While Arcane mastery is active your spells' cooldowns are reduced by the cooldown of your Overload Spell.

the whole cooldown part only takes place while you have arcane mastery, in essence its a slower version of Ryze whose Q hits weaker than ever. Another oddity is that if you do the math, having cooldown reduction is actually bad with this passive, because the cooldown effect with the arcane mastery buff is diminished the more cooldown reduction you have, but you don't have a choice because his ultimate gives a free 10/20/30% cooldown reduction. Yipee! Our kit actually ends up screwing itself over and we don't have to build a thing... Its as if our ultimate and passive are working against each other without us there to do anything about it.

~~ Here is what I think his kit needs:

-The splash range on his E Spell Flux or missile speed needs to be increased so it either hits faster or its easier to hit multiple targets to do increased damage. Right now the mana cost of spell flux does not justify the hit or miss nature of it if your target happens to move away from other targets.

-His ultimate should only give 10/15/20% cooldown reduction because of the fact of item inefficiency

-His passive's cooldown reduction mechanic should only apply the base cooldown (unmodified by cooldown reduction) of his Q skill Overload. Riot has said before they don't like negative stats and this is basically without an actual negative sign there. With this change, all his skills would lose 4 seconds every spell cast and the text the passive mentions about no lower than 0.25 would have much more relevance as it would prevent the spaming of his Q. Also to avoid issues I would make it so his Q would only get 25% of the effect (1 second instead of 4) to prevent endless Q spamming. at 40% cdr his Q would have 2.4 second cooldown so it would take two spellcasts to finish it's cooldown enough and his other skills have much longer cooldowns already.

a proper rotation would be with 4 stacks of arcane mastery: R,Q,W,E,Q

13 Comments

lB2kGRlc8y2 votes

Yea, the CDR itemization nerf has really made Ryze bad against AD champions. I used to take ryze as a good Zed counter, but now he's absolutely crap against AD champions because the only decent armor item for him is Zhonya's. I do think incresing spell flux's missile speed would greatly increase his potency, as people reflexively move away from creeps when he casts it, so its usually only hitting with the base spell. I've found the best way to fight champions is to stand in their creep wave, so if they close the distance, you always have targets for spell flux to hit, but with the lowered effectiveness of armor items, ryze takes a lot of damage from minion autos.

NorthernDruid2 votes

What he really needs:

The PBE buffs. As well as making his passive stacks drop one by one instead of all at once, letting you hang around at 4-3 stacks until you get an opening to go in.

What he could also really use:

Range increase on E (and/or W) and/or bounce range increase on E.

One of his main weaknesses is lack of control of his own passive, there's no way to pace it once you're already going, and one of his core items (item 3070) relies on spamming spells as much as possible, which triggers his passive pretty regularily.

Let his passive decay one stack at a time every 4-5 seconds, instead of all at once.

This lets him be in control over his own lane presence, instead of having it bounce wildly according to how well he's stacking his tear.

In short, let's not have two core mechanics of playing Ryze at odds with each other.

Wobly2 votes

Ryze needs some help, but all he really needs is to be less pathetic in lane. Give him a little more damage or mana / mana regen and he'll be solid. They're increasing the base damage on Q and the duration of his passive super mode and ult to 6 seconds at all ranks (from 3/4/5/6 and 4/5/6), so that should help. Now he'll actually be able to all-in and get a kill with his passive at level 3 if he plays it right. They might need to do more. We'll see.

Reducing the CDR on his ult does nothing for him. You can still build Frozen Heart, it's more than gold efficient even without CDR. Having the CDR just means you don't HAVE to build FH, you can instead built Thornmail, or Randuins, or GA, or Zhonya, or an offensive item.

The change to his passive CDR reduction you suggest wouldn't really increase his power level. Mostly it would just make it so you don't have to use the correct combo to spam spells. This change would make the "Ryze is a faceroll champ hur dur" joke real, since you could cast your spells in any order in the late game and it would work out fine. It increases the power of the champ for people who don't know how to play him, but not for the people who do know how to play him, which kind of sucks.

Splash range on E, I agree, it could be bigger. I think they made the projectile slow because they wanted the ability to have counterplay in the form of moving / dashing out of your minion wave or grouped team. But I don't know if that's really necessary. This is something they could look at if they want to buff him again after patch 5.10 comes out.

Fun Fest1 votes

I believe on the PBE they just made his ult 6s at all ranks, not his passive. That would be crazy.

The PBE ultility changes are making 21 utility be a viable option for him due to the +100 mana and insane mana regen mastery.

Wobly2 votes

Check it out: http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html

Ryze

Arcane Mastery (Passive) duration now 6 seconds from 3 seconds up to 4/5/6 based on R rank.

Overload (Q) damage increased to 65/95/125/155/185 from 65/90/115/140/165 Desperate Power (R) duration increased to 6 seconds at all ranks from 4/5/6

Fun Fest1 votes

That would make Ryze hilariously OP. If those changes go live, he'll be insta-banned as soon as people figure out how to play him.

Wobly1 votes

Maybe. A 6 second long Ryze combo would for sure put Ryze 100% OOM at early levels. He'd need to get the right engage to be able to stick to his target for the whole time, and land all his Qs, or else he won't get the kill. And at the end , he pretty much has to back whether he got the kill or not. I think mana constraints will keep this from making him OP. It does, however, give him kill pressure as early as level 3, which is something he currently lacks.

OxBaker1 votes

Bumping cause he's been out for weeks and is still below the next lowest win rate champ by a couple percent. Was 39% last I checked. How many more weeks need to go by before people stop giving the excuse that "he's fine and players just need some time to learn how to use him".

Wobly1 votes

They're buffing him in the next patch, 5 extra damage per rank in Q and increased duration of Arcane Mastery super mode and ult active to 6 seconds at all ranks. Should increase his kill pressure in lane from none at all to at least a little bit. He might still need more after that, but at least they're looking into his problems.

OxBaker1 votes

Hope that's not a case of "too little, too late" as he's also now one of the top 10 least played champs and his popularity is still dropping.

Wobly1 votes

Yeah, I think they're being a bit overcautious. At least he'll get balanced eventually. Once he's balanced, people will eventually come back and play him again.

Beddlam1 votes

For me, his biggest problem is the reliability of his damage, not the numbers. His two main sources of damage are his Q and his E, each of which is extremely unreliable in its own way. His Q is unreliable because it is skillshot that can not only be juked, but also blocked. His E is unreliable because it is situational in nature, and because of its slow missile speed, even if you do catch someone in the middle of their wave or team, they can move away and only take 1 or 2 bounces, rendering it low damage, and very mana inefficient. This is further complicated by the fact that an ideal situation for his Q (on their own so there is nothing to block the shot) means his E will be bad, and the ideal situation for his E (surrounded by creeps or allies) he won't be able to connect with his Q.

This is a very real problem because it will make him even harder to balance then before. Now, if they just increase his numbers so he performs at an okay level on average, he'll have to be doing insane damage in optimal situations which will cause him to get nerfed again. So please, Riot, don't buff Ryze's damage, buff the reliability of his Q and/or E.

Possible improvements Q could use: increased missile speed, pass through units (maybe only when arcane master is up?), homing on champions affected by his E debuff. change to a ground targeted skillshot like Karthus Q.

Possible improvements E could use: Increased missile speed, increased AoE range, Increased damage if it bounces off no targets or only Ryze, Fewer possible bounces (say 4 instead of 6), but same damage if all bounces hit.

Also, as many have pointed out, the CDR on his ult not only screws with his itemization (Frozen Heart and Spirit Visage are still among the most common items on him despite the wasted stats), but also uses some of his power budget for a stat that is now extremely inefficient on him. Please replace it with a bonus that actually helps him. My vote would be for bonus tenacity during his ult.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

-The Splash range on his E definitely needs to be increased. It's like you put in a mechanic that is designed to work one way, but then it's tuned so that players can't actually use it. I do think the mana cost is justified because it's a targetted spell, but at the very least it should work as intended without being tuned so it doesn't actually work.

-In my opinion, I don't really see much of a reason to keep any sort of cooldown reduction at all. He could have a lot more power in relevant places on his kit if he had less cooldown reduction.

-I feel that the reason for having his passive reset his cooldowns to the cooldown of Overload is so that his comboes don't scale with Cooldown reduction. Making his passive reset the cooldown by the full 4 seconds at every stage of the game might either make him overpowered with CDR or underpowered without CDR, not to mention there is also a lot of value in having the same Ryze comboes at the start of the game as you do at the end for players picking up Ryze.

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