How the hell did 5.22 get out of PBE like this?

Meserion·Nov 12, 2015·82 votes·4,085 views

AD is so broken right its not even funny. Its not the ADCs who are the problem actually, its melee carrys that are the nightmare between and it doesn't matter how much hp or armor I build; I still lose 1/2 my hp in two hits. The items like are to cheap in price, the value of AD to AP is not the same.

40 AD always has 100% ratio with a 1 second or less cooldown. 60 AP has variable ratio that is usaully not 100%, it less. the cooldown varies but its usaully 5 seconds or more.

I'm comparing (1300 gold) and (1250 gold).

AD items need a nerf and honestly AP items should have only gone up 25 gold in price because we only got 25 more starting gold.

Jeezus Riot this is the worst patch I've seen in a long time. How the hell did these changes make it out of PBE?

63 Comments

TheSeltzerBaronNov 12, 201534 votes

These masteries are absolute shit. They're about as worthless now as the rune system. Meaningful choices my ass. It's left or right, one or the other, no variety. Why don't you just pre-make set masteries and let us click a single button, that's how stupid it is.

Sona PingNov 13, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spiritus Noctis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9wGyTdQc,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-11-12T06:26:38.237+0000)

Meaningful choices my ass. It's left or right, one or the other, no variety.

I won't say I am a fan of the new masteries or anything but... That's pretty much the way it was before.
You just took left or right on the offense tree, depending on what your champion is, AD or AP. Otherwise, for each champion and role, for the question of "What masteries do I take?" you could take the option of Choice A or you could take one of a few other options consisting of "the wrong answer". It was like that for like over 90% of the picks.

El Condor PasaNov 12, 201519 votes

The PBE isn't the best environment to test balance. The preseason is their only chance all season to test changes that can completely fuck up balance.

Hyrum GraffNov 12, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=KK Cruisin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9wGyTdQc,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-11-12T05:45:40.976+0000)

The PBE isn't the best environment to test balance. The preseason is their only chance all season to test changes that can completely fuck up balance.

So much this. We all remember how the PBE (note: I'm on it) said that Skarner felt weak..

HawkefireNov 13, 20158 votes

I really hate comments like this as they really do not paint the full picture of that situation.

The largest complaint that the Skarner fanbase had towards the rework was not lack of power. It was the fact that it was a focus on conditional power, which previously had nothing to do with Skarners kit (objective control? Really? If I was going for objective control I would pick Nunu, the king of objective control, why in the bloody hell would I ever pick Skarner for objective control? Note that I am referring to this from a stance of pre-rework Skarner players, as pre-rework Skarner really had nothing to do with objective control, at least not anything more than any other average run-of-the-mill jungler did).

So what happens? Riot misinterprets the feedback and thinks that players are saying that Skarner is too weak (which wasn't really the case) and _massively _ buffs Skarner across the board (while missing the entire picture), with fairly incredible number buffs to just about everything in his kit, all while keeping the conditional power at exactly the same ratio. So Skarner initially on the PBE was relatively slightly underpar outside of his conditional zones, and while inside his conditional zones he was very strong, borderline overbearing. After the buffs he was very strong outside of his conditional zones, and completely broken while inside of them. This is because Riot didn't make his conditional zones weaker while making him stronger outside of them, no, what they did was both make him stronger outside of his zones and massively stronger inside of them.

Riot then rushed the patch to live without really giving anybody a significant chance to test out the new changes and formulate an opinion of them. And naturally he was broken as all hell.

Fast forward to now, and we see that the original complaint still stands, with pretty much all of Skarners power tied up in a conditional passive. He is incredibly strong (borderline overpowered) inside of his zones, and very lacking when he is outside of them.

hobomann2Nov 13, 20152 votes

WOOOOOOOOOOOO! thanks for giving me something to copy-paste for other twat-blasters that toot the same horn

Packun FlowerNov 12, 20158 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/jdcE8ruL-all-these-complaints-about-crits-yasuo-graves-etc-etc

I tried, I really did.

I tried and failed.

redniwediSNov 12, 20156 votes

This is your first preseason, isn't it?

MCBiggah99Nov 12, 20154 votes

It's my second one, actually, preseason 5 does not even compare to this abomination. I'd rather face an instagib Warwick every game than Yasuo and Trynd.

Sneakyy XDNov 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

This is your first preseason, isn't it?

It used to be that Riot fucked over just the jungle and one or two items during the preseason.

ValentenNov 13, 20151 votes

you clearly havent been around for a while. Season 5 preseason was the most tame. season 4 preseason we had the HUGE vision and support changes. most preseasons have had huge changes like this season 5 was the exception.

AnidanNov 13, 20152 votes

Pre-Season 3...

item 3071 WELCOME Talon TO Pantheon THE Zed LEAGUE Garen OF JarvanIV CLEAVERS Riven , BOYS

Pantheon and Talon legitimately had a purchase rate of over 100% with Cleaver and both had around 55-60% win rates.

KONO RUBICK DANov 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Pre-Season 3...

WELCOME TO THE LEAGUE OF CLEAVERS , BOYS

Pantheon and Talon legitimately had a purchase rate of over 100% with Cleaver and both had around 55-60% win rates.

the think is in this season, only black cleaver was broken

TDubHNov 13, 20151 votes

But amusingly Every single champ who bought it was broken as well... so BC was not the only broken thing was it?

AnidanNov 13, 20151 votes

As bad it seems, comparative to the amount of things changed up this pre-season, this is actually the most tame in terms of 'broken' things. More seemingly minor things have thrown much more out whack than this, cleavers being probably the best example.

FarmedUrMomNov 12, 20156 votes

what ever team gets a kill lead early game starts a snowball effect for that team and makes it to where the opposite team has no chance of even catching up

7ha7guy777Nov 12, 20152 votes

And the minion buffs on level/turret advantage aren't even live yet due to a bug

ZephyrDrakeNov 12, 20155 votes

i have officially stopped caring, pretty much over half the games i've seen and played are pretty much a 10 min farmfest and then one team gets the slightest of advantages and then completely stomps the other team with said other team having practically no chance of winning. I'll start caring again when they actually do something about the stompfest that is happening right now. Turrets might as well not exist and the extra armor/mr they are supposed to get (not like it would help at all since it caps at 30) i swear it's glitched since 30 mins into the game and i still don't see a single bonus armor/mr in them just the same 200/0

Phuc Dat BichNov 12, 20154 votes

its the preseason THAT EXACTLY what riot wants to TRY things and that why ELO atm mean nothing no matter how much testing riot do 1 hour in live servers with over 65 million players play that game would give them 1000% more data than the test they do at PBE for the last 3 months in 1 hour

THEY collect data atm so they can balance the game complete till season 6

THAT what preseason mean yeah many stuff sucks and others are complete broken but it would be balanced out in the next 2 patches that would be the last patches for season 5 simple stuff

FatalitýNov 13, 20154 votes

If they can't get enough data from the PBE whats the point of having it any way?

warpenguin555Nov 12, 20154 votes

Because riot doesnt care about PBE feedback. I was on it. You may now murder me. (No really please do, this meta is trash)

ikillutwiceNov 12, 20154 votes

I don't think riot listens to PBE

DreadlocksNov 12, 20153 votes

I think a lot of people underestimate the power of item 3812 . If you are dying quickly, seriously, pick this item up.

AsphodelNextNov 12, 20159 votes

You know he's complaining about AP champions not being able to deal with AD champions, right? And that item 3812 is an AD item?

MLDzXnRRRNov 12, 20153 votes

I thought that melee carries were supposed to melt anyone who walks near them. At least they are squishy. Garen/ Darius could do the same thing while being unkillable. Ranged ADCs can do the same thing from a long distance (I died yesterday from a Caitlyn's Rapid Firecannon crit - what is the counterplay to 800 range crit?)

The PatriachyNov 12, 20153 votes

Riot does this shit on purpose. They release broken shit to change up the champion picks and add "variety".

They don't care about balance. It isn't even the crit. It is the fact that ad champions are basically running around with 40% lifesteal with just 3 items + the keystone mastery.

ZT XperimentorNov 13, 20152 votes

Sad thing is, they used to back in season 1 & 2, but once they got into the 'esports' they focused on their greed instead.

DehornNov 12, 20153 votes

have you tried picking Jax Malphite or Rammus into them? its freelo.

Mahou LuluNov 12, 20153 votes

The game is literally in the most unfun state I've ever seen.

Graves is ridiculous. Hell, ADCs in general are ridiculous right now. Soraka is making teams unkillable since Grievous Wounds is complete garbage against anyone that doesn't effectively self-sustain. Mages feel lackluster in comparison to just about everything else. 3-4 ADC teams are WORKING somehow and that should never be the case.

Here's to hoping change is coming because we really need it.

DarkRitualNov 12, 20152 votes

Yup, as a Support main, It took me about two games to realize I needed to be loaded down with peel/engage. The team who can make better engages wins, since your front line tanks are useless now.

KMS BismarckNov 12, 20153 votes

{quoted}

40 AD always has 100% ratio with a 1 second or less cooldown. 60 AP has variable ratio that is usaully not 100%, it less. the cooldown varies but its usaully 5 seconds or more.

Talon ?

I'm comparing (1300 gold) and (1250 gold).

Didn't item 1058 was 1'600 gold will item 1038 was 1'500 gold one year before?

SpeedphoenixNov 12, 20153 votes

Riot doesn't look for feedback on the pbe boards. You have many feedbacks on gameplay and balance, but they are eigher ignored or the oposite is implanted into the game

Zair UmbrasNov 13, 20152 votes

The gameplay feedback is ignored for a reason. >> There's a few good posts here and there, but a good chunk of it is utter garbage complaining about 'Waaaaaah, my champion is so crap' or 'Waaaaaaaah, Yasuo/Riven/Fiora/Juggernauts/Fizz/Veigar/InsertAnyFotMChampEver is too OP Rito nerf nao!'

ExtviaNov 12, 20153 votes

It got out of PBE by lacking any critical bugs, Preseason is for discovering needed balance changes to their ideas, PBE is for bugs. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

FatalitýNov 13, 20153 votes

"For the time that testers have PBE access, they’ll be able to test and provide feedback on upcoming champions, features and other content in order to help make sure it’s ready for release."-https://pbesignup.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/pbe

Not just for bugs, this is why people don't understand the PBE if riot doesn't even take feedback from it in the first place.

Linna ExcelNov 12, 20152 votes

Riot had to start preseason on a schedule and bugs/balance issues/sucky mastery system isn't enough to stop them.

Son Olivia HyeNov 12, 20152 votes

rip. Riot should do some hotfixes though.

Romax13Nov 12, 20152 votes

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Market_Brawlers I just want these items to be added to add more variety to gameplay.

CatastropNov 12, 20152 votes

The preseason is basically what Riot uses to balance the upcoming season. The PBE doesn't play much of a role in this because it's scheduled and that means that not all bugs/problems are rectified before it hits live. Just bare it, a lot of things will be fixed by the next patch.

Tentacle LoveNov 12, 20152 votes

We don't get to test balance on the PBE, just bugs.

WeatheredNov 13, 20152 votes

Sir, I dont think you understand. The PBE is not some magical place where everything is fixed, everything is dandy, and heaven will be released next patch. See, we here at the PBE have a set job. We find bugs, we give constructive criticism. Riot, fixes those bugs, and maybe tweaks one thing by 3 AD. We do not decide what goes through, we make sure it isn't ACTUALLY broken (bugs).

Arch Mage MagnusNov 13, 20152 votes

I personally made a number of important discussions on the PBE board, and it looks like Riot listened to none of them. Even the bugs went through (Like new AP ring not listing the AP plus you get after getting glory kills". Lissandra can also still be smited while in her ult form.

Shroom JunkieNov 12, 20151 votes

To add, crit doubles that ratio, and Infinity edge multiplies it by 2.5! In fact, I think its 300% now because it says it multiplies it by 50% which 50% of 200% is 100%, so it might be 300%, not to mention crit damage runes.

AntiSkillshotNov 13, 20153 votes

{quoted}

To add, crit doubles that ratio, and Infinity edge multiplies it by 2.5! In fact, I think its 300% now because it says it multiplies it by 50% which 50% of 200% is 100%, so it might be 300%, not to mention crit damage runes.

It's additive 50%. It only adds 50% to the 200% (Making it 250%). It's not a multiplicative 50% (Which would make it 300%, IF it was multiplicative).

Edit: In reality, it multiples the bonus. Which is 100%. As such, it just adds 50% to the bonus, which makes it a 150% bonus. Ultimately, it's still 250%.

{quoted}

I think a lot of people underestimate the power of . If you are dying quickly, seriously, pick this item up.

I actually really like that item. Works great on MF.

Shroom JunkieNov 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's additive 50%. It only adds 50% to the 200% (Making it 250%). It's not a multiplicative 50% (Which would make it 300%, IF it was multiplicative).

Edit: In reality, it multiples the bonus. Which is 100%. As such, it just adds 50% to the bonus, which makes it a 150% bonus. Ultimately, it's still 250%.

Yeah, thanks. But I already figured that out yesterday like an hour after I wrote it. xD I was calculating it to see if it was and then I noticed... "Bonus" and I'm like "OOOHHHHH" But yeah, it is a bit more now because crit damage runes can get multiplied too. Still, not nearly as much as I thought.

ZT XperimentorNov 13, 20151 votes

Simple; riot ignores the pbe & doesn't playtest.

FastAsHeckNov 13, 20151 votes

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/platinum/by-winrate

Rammus 60% winrate, followed closely by DrMundo at 57%, this is what tank players like me have been waiting for all this time

ManwalrusNov 13, 20151 votes

It made it out because Riot doesn't listen to it's testers, we literally posted about all of these issues and more on the PBE boards but Riot doesn't seem to care about those...

LOL SpammerNov 14, 20151 votes

Because they are trying new things, they wanted to see how the majority of the population liked the changes, the PBE is a very small percentage of the people in the game. The people obviously don't like it (Although my prediction is that they will get used to it JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER THING THEY HATE) so some of the changes will likely get reverted or nerfed.