So what's the plan with Koggy?

Rebonack·Nov 22, 2015·1 votes·464 views

He's still languishing over on Rift. What does Riot plan on doing to address that scenario?

16 Comments

SlytherinUmbreonNov 22, 20151 votes

He probably doesn't need buffs, Riot just needs to fix the god damn pacing of the game so that there's an actual late game for him to scale into.

RebonackNov 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He probably doesn't need buffs, Riot just needs to fix the god damn pacing of the game so that there's an actual late game for him to scale into.

To risk 'lolwinrates' Kog still only has about a 49% win rate in the deep late game if champ.gg is to be believed. Nearly all the other so-called Hypercarries all have fairly solid early/mid game presence.

Salt Miner 49 ErNov 22, 20152 votes

{quoted}

To risk 'lolwinrates' Kog still only has about a 49% win rate in the deep late game if champ.gg is to be believed. Nearly all the other so-called Hypercarries all have fairly solid early/mid game presence.

Part of that issue is that Kog'Maw's ultimate went from a fairly competent poking ability to one that you'll only really use as an execute on fleeing enemies since instead of doing the bonus flat damage it deals triple damage if they're < 25% health. The other problem is that while he does get a 10% DPS boost on autos (with 2.0 attack speed, which is easily achieved), the fact that he's only hitting for 55% of his total damage without it being on-hit items is kind of bad.

That and you have his atrocious mana costs and the fact that his ultimate STILL scales up in mana cost like Kassadin for some inexplicable reason, as well as a ton of Assassins being popular right now.

RebonackNov 22, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Salt Miner 49 Er,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O8e4H0Y2,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-22T21:18:50.344+0000)

Part of that issue is that Kog'Maw's ultimate went from a fairly competent poking ability to one that you'll only really use as an execute on fleeing enemies since instead of doing the bonus flat damage it deals triple damage if they're < 25% health. The other problem is that while he does get a 10% DPS boost on autos (with 2.0 attack speed, which is easily achieved), the fact that he's only hitting for 55% of his total damage without it being on-hit items is kind of bad.

That and you have his atrocious mana costs and the fact that his ultimate STILL scales up in mana cost like Kassadin for some inexplicable reason, as well as a ton of Assassins being popular right now.

A bit more to it than that.

Koggy previously had an amazing mid game between his potent W base damage and his Ult combined with Sheen procs.

Losing all that damage has delayed his first real power spike from 'hit 6 and have Sheen' to 'rush Rageblade and pray Riot doesn't nerf it too hard.'

Salt Miner 49 ErNov 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

A bit more to it than that.

Koggy previously had an amazing mid game between his potent W base damage and his Ult combined with Sheen procs.

Losing all that damage has delayed his first real power spike from 'hit 6 and have Sheen' to 'rush Rageblade and pray Riot doesn't nerf it too hard.'

Yeah pretty much. It's kind of disappointing because as Kog even if I rush Rageblade in alot of my games, he's completely irrelevant until you get Runaan's because he's supposed to be the 'Giga-Carry'. My friends and I have started calling him Shit Worm, and looking at his win rate and nobody having a clear cut build for him, as well as all the problems he has I can't help but think it's a fitting name.

And the sad thing is I actually like Kog's playstyle.

Pierce The VealNov 22, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Salt Miner 49 Er,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O8e4H0Y2,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-22T21:18:50.344+0000)

Part of that issue is that Kog'Maw's ultimate went from a fairly competent poking ability to one that you'll only really use as an execute on fleeing enemies since instead of doing the bonus flat damage it deals triple damage if they're < 25% health. The other problem is that while he does get a 10% DPS boost on autos (with 2.0 attack speed, which is easily achieved), the fact that he's only hitting for 55% of his total damage without it being on-hit items is kind of bad.

That and you have his atrocious mana costs and the fact that his ultimate STILL scales up in mana cost like Kassadin for some inexplicable reason, as well as a ton of Assassins being popular right now.

Now that you mention it I don't really think gating his ult manacost does anything. AP kog wouldn't really be broken even if it had a flat 50 mana cost. I mean, I understand a barrage if ultimates is horrifying, but then what really is the point of kog?

Salt Miner 49 ErNov 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Now that you mention it I don't really think gating his ult manacost does anything. AP kog wouldn't really be broken even if it had a flat 50 mana cost. I mean, I understand a barrage if ultimates is horrifying, but then what really is the point of kog?

To melt people with your W that's mana gated. Honestly at this point in time, Kog'Maw's design is a giant clusterfuck of whatever because you can't max your W in lane due to it only adding additional range and a lower CD, nothing more. Then if you max Q while you do get alot of attack speed you're stuck with the +90 range until roughly level 8. By that time, alot of ADCs are hitting their mid-game power curve and you still just kind of exist unless you've been doing good and already have Rageblade.

Otherwise you're just a useless little Shit Worm.

My thoughts are:

Remove the mana costs on his W or have the CD start when he activates it Don't mana gate his ulti since it's only an execute

Or just delete him because Riot clearly doesn't care.

Pierce The VealNov 22, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Salt Miner 49 Er,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O8e4H0Y2,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-11-22T23:34:11.415+0000)

To melt people with your W that's mana gated. Honestly at this point in time, Kog'Maw's design is a giant clusterfuck of whatever because you can't max your W in lane due to it only adding additional range and a lower CD, nothing more. Then if you max Q while you do get alot of attack speed you're stuck with the +90 range until roughly level 8. By that time, alot of ADCs are hitting their mid-game power curve and you still just kind of exist unless you've been doing good and already have Rageblade.

Otherwise you're just a useless little Shit Worm.

My thoughts are:

Remove the mana costs on his W or have the CD start when he activates it Don't mana gate his ulti since it's only an execute

Or just delete him because Riot clearly doesn't care.

Agreed.

And, since they're so scared of breaking ap kog, they should know that with his ult being an execute ap kog already need to spam like crazy to get the damage he had before and reach an executable level. So removing the mana cost on his w and increasing costs on his ultimate would be a good step forward. Also, for the live of god give his w 0.5/1.0/1.5/2.0/2.5% max health as a base at the very least. With that he can deal reasonable amounts of damage.

RebonackNov 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Agreed.

And, since they're so scared of breaking ap kog, they should know that with his ult being an execute ap kog already need to spam like crazy to get the damage he had before and reach an executable level. So removing the mana cost on his w and increasing costs on his ultimate would be a good step forward. Also, for the live of god give his w 0.5/1.0/1.5/2.0/2.5% max health as a base at the very least. With that he can deal reasonable amounts of damage.

I'm not sure what amount of base %HP damage would be balanced. I can't even begin to guess. But a base value along with Bonus AD scaling rather than total would be a step in the right direction. Then just bump his W-empowered auto-attacks from 55% damage to 50%. Really, his %HP damage is his main draw. That would be the focus of the ability along with its OnHit madness.

Pierce The VealNov 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure what amount of base %HP damage would be balanced. I can't even begin to guess. But a base value along with Bonus AD scaling rather than total would be a step in the right direction. Then just bump his W-empowered auto-attacks from 55% damage to 50%. Really, his %HP damage is his main draw. That would be the focus of the ability along with its OnHit madness.

I think they should honestly either bump it up to 60-70% of ad, or make it so w can be up permanently. What made kog powerful previously were his crits from afar, not necessarily just his % hp damage.

A good way to think about it is if we want the w to be equally powerful, we would just make it flat half of the previous value on hit (so 4%). But since riot added scaling, we can assume they want it to increase past its previous value, but start lower for better late, worse early. So a flat 2% or so plus the current scaling would be good. You could probably expect kog to have 300 ad, 350 max because there is less ad available this season,whichwould bring his % damage to 6% or so. A little too strong? Make it bonus ad scaling or reduce the scaling to 1% per 100 ad. There, 5% or so which is a small buff to his late. I'm betting though that with his current immobility even 8% might be fine.

BonipherusNov 22, 20151 votes

Kog's only real problems are mana oriented. Although I would personally like his w to start its cooldown as soon as it is activated so that the ability could be balanced to have a 0 sec cd with 40% cdr and allow you to always have it up.

Pierce The VealNov 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Kog's only real problems are mana oriented. Although I would personally like his w to start its cooldown as soon as it is activated so that the ability could be balanced to have a 0 sec cd with 40% cdr and allow you to always have it up.

I actually agree with this. It should also have 0 mana cost as well I think. It's homestly unfair to pay more mana early game when costs aren't negligible for something that deals much less damage then the previous w.

Pierce The VealNov 22, 20151 votes

Make his w quadruple his attack speed and remove cast animations. I think that's a good idea.

Big LincolnNov 22, 20151 votes

i personally think his W needs a base value to scale off of instead of just being ratios

would be nice if his ult wasn't as mana gated either; a 70 flat cost wouldn't be too bad for something that he's encouraged to spam often

PentchNov 22, 20151 votes

If you build this it works good item 3124

Sona PingNov 23, 20151 votes

They want to buff his base damages. Repertoire apologized, saying that he cut his damage potential down far too much because his performance on Live wasn't anywhere near where it was at in testing.