Zoe counters

Bârd··44 votes·9,585 views

Zoe relies on landing her sleep to line up her combo. Without it, she can't do her trademarked one-shot. So, right off the bat everyone who can either block the bubble or ignore the sleep counters Zoe.

>Yasuo windwalls it, so he's a gimme. Malzahar has a built in banshees, so there you go. Sivir Nocturne Fiora can block the bubble Gangplank Olaf Alistar can cleanse the sleep. Morgana can black shield it, but she has apply her shield before the bubble lands. Tryndamere can't stop himself from falling asleep, but he'll never die from it.

>On top of those champions, item 3140 item 3139 item 3222item 3102 item 3814 and summoner 1 all counter it. Just make sure you're cleansing the actual sleep, and not the drowsy effect. The two are separate. item 3157 (and Bard by extension) also helps, since you can ignore the sleep, but be mindful that going golden in the middle of a teamfight isn't always the best plan. item 3026 also deserves a mention.

The true damage on Zoe's bubble is, well, not ACTUAL true damage. It's a true damage nuke equal to the post-mitigation damage of whatever attack proc'd it (up to a cap, of course). This means that anybody with stupidly high resistances won't take much damage from this.

>Galio Alistar Braum have % reductions they can turn on, though Alistar should really be using his to ignore the sleep instead of tank its damage. XinZhao just doesn't take the damage at all. Rammus Isn't the best magic tank in the game, but his W does give him an edge for that. Malphite would obviously rather be tanking physical damage, but on the off-chance the bubble gets popped by the ADC, Malphite won't even notice. Kassadin is here on a technicality. He'll still get bursted, but I just thought I'd remind you that he has a passive. On top of those, you obviously have just every tank in the game, since they just build MR naturally.

Zoe needs to burst somebody to be useful. If her burst gets negated, she's not a happy camper. As such, every potential savior gets a spot on the list.

>Sejuani Alistar Amumu Braum Chogath Darius DrMundo Galio Garen Gnar Gragas Hecarim Illaoi Irelia JarvanIV Jax Kled LeeSin Leona Malphite Maokai Mordekaiser Nasus Nautilus Nunu Olaf Ornn Poppy Rammus RekSai Renekton Shen Sion Skarner Swain TahmKench Taric Trundle Udyr Urgot Vi Vladimir Volibear Warwick Yorick Zac XinZhao have enough raw durability to tank a paddle star without too much hastle. Annie Ivern Heimerdinger Malzahar Zyra Mordekaiser can bodyblock with their summons. Bard can make the sleeping ally invulnerable, though the timing can be tricky and it often causes more problems than it solves. TahmKench is better if you want to go down that route. Morgana gets another mention. Even if she couldn't stop the ally from falling asleep, a mid Morgana with some AP can block a good chunk of the Paddle star with the magic shield. Ivern Janna Karma Lulu Lux Orianna Sona Taric Thresh can all apply a regular old shield to the ally. They probably won't block the whole thing, but you'll probably do enough to let them live. Kayle Zilean just straight up make it so they don't die. Trundle can displace the sleeping ally to make Zoe miss her Q. Yasuo windwall pops up here again. Actually, most of the champions who can deal with the bubble can also deal with paddle star. On top of those, item 3190 and item 3401 are great. Oh, and item 3222 again. Maybe you should build it one of these games.

Next, anyone who is just damn impossible to hit with skillshots.

>Vayne Ahri Katarina Shaco Fizz and every other agile champion in the game is an absolute pain in the ass for Zoe, especially if she isn't experienced enough to predict their jukes. Because of this, two Zoe's in the same game counter each other because both of them can usually dodge each others bubbles. Fizz Vladimir Xayah MasterYi get honors for being untargetable.

Okay, moving on from people who counter her E.

Zoe is very squishy and not very mobile. As such, anyone who can get on top of her and burst her is a nightmare.

>Divers like Camille start off the teamfight by killing Zoe. Assassins like Evelynn kill Zoe every time she steps out of her base. Lissandra Malzahar just have so much reliable lockdown that Zoe can't handle it.

Zoe relies on burst damage. She's great at killing squishies, but tanky champions generally don't care about her. This is all well and good until those tanky champions are major threats to her team.

>Any juggernaut fills this role. Also, Vladimir.

In the lane phase, Zoe wants nothing more than to go gank bot or top. There are a lot of picks that shut that down.

>Xerath VelkozViktor Taliyah Ziggs Heimerdinger keep the wave shoved in. Ziggs and Heim might just take your tower if you try to roam. Galio TwistedFate also shove the wave in, but are also exceptional at countering her roams.

Be aware that this is not an all-inclusive list. It's entirely probable that I'm missing a couple good picks.

That said, hope this helps.

104 Comments

NineTailedMystic35 votes

I'm still banning her every game I'm mid.

Votable Jester4 votes

Just please don't ban her when I'm first pick and hovering her, it happens way too often (and my winrate with her is >50%, so that's not the reason).

Bjørnetjenesten6 votes

Yeah every single game actually, even if my mid can first pick it lol. Game without Zoe is a game worth playing.

Votable Jester1 votes

Because Yasuo Fizz Akali Katarina Evelynn Malzahar Rengar Shaco Talon Twitch Vayne are all way more fun/fair to play with/against than Zoe

Bjørnetjenesten2 votes

This Zoe is the most disgusting thing i have seen in years: its kit, its design, its visuals, its lore, its voice, the people who main it... So gross.

It doesnt fit the games theme at all, and seeing it in a game, wether on enemy team or ally team, makes me want to jump of a bridge.

I ban it every game so i can tell myself that the game is still the same and not changing for the worse with every new champ.

I dont care about unfair and cancer champs, but this shit: Zoe, was definitely ritos failed abortion.

Votable Jester1 votes

She's kinda supposed to not fit the theme though. She's supposed to be a character who has spent most of her life basically in different universes and such from every other champion, making her extremely different from the others.

Keep banning her if you want though, idc. You'll just start losing slightly more games than normal because you won't be banning the op.

Tykenn2 votes

Aren't you shooting yourself in the foot by banning her so often? You'll never know the match up and what her limitations are.

It's a lot easier to cry "OP" about something you don't understand instead of taking the time to figure her out.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

I never said OP. I just refuse to play against her. It simply is not happening.

Tykenn2 votes

ah my bad then, could I ask why you ban her then?

Fenc1 votes

Lmao you got them

SarcasticShepard19 votes

I'll just stick with the one counter Zoe has a !00% loss rate against.

The ban button.

Troll for Trump13 votes

Anything that can dive her screws with her (all assassins) Zed Nautilus Leona Alistar

Jinx Hunter11 votes

summoner 1 now stop making excuses why your bad

Tails901614 votes
AirKingNeo14 votes

2 minute cooldown vs 10 second cooldown.

Malix Farwin6 votes

Well i usually use Annie as a counter. If she plays too close she can get bursted quite easily and if she plays too far i can free farm and and stand behind Minions and free farm then just flash burst her w/e Flash is up.

{quoted}

I'm still banning her every game I'm mid.

Thats all well and good but i think there are much bigger threats mid atm(namely Katarina who is by far worse since these new rune changes came out).

Lios Ashenblade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O4rZWA4x,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-01-15T13:22:02.706+0000)

Well i usually use Annie as a counter. If she plays too close she can get bursted quite easily and if she plays too far i can free farm and and stand behind Minions and free farm then just flash burst her w/e Flash is up.

Thats all well and good but i think there are much bigger threats mid atm(namely Katarina who is by far worse since these new rune changes came out).

That my friend is why I am not a mid main, there are too many bans on that list lol

Malix Farwin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lios Ashenblade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O4rZWA4x,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-01-15T15:45:29.905+0000)

That my friend is why I am not a mid main, there are too many bans on that list lol

Well its mostly just needing to know what your opponent is capable of. The scariest ting is when they roam. Its easy to play safe against an assassin, its Hard to get your team to pay attentions to ganks(even when you ping them till ping is exhausted).

Lios Ashenblade2 votes

Most of my bans, are from my issues trusting my team to play without their heads in their asses

JarodDempsey6 votes

you literally listed basically every counter for hard cc. It's zoes entire kit that makes people hate her, she has range, super easy to aim cc and a long ranged nuke that gets true damage mega boost from her easy to aim cc. All of that combine with a 6 sec cd double blink and the potential ability to flash multiple times in a row just make her cancerous. Personally I dont mind her since i play supps that excel against her but also because shes almost never seen in game due to bans. I dont even ban her because i know someone else will, thats how much people hate her.

Kanzler5 votes

Zoe gets beat by the extreme ends of the range spectrum: assassins or bruisers that can dive her and artillery mages who can beat her down from range.

anmyauntieonpo5 votes

A fed Zoe is tough to stop. Just like any champ in the game. She is not overpowered at all people in low Elo just don't know how to counter play correctly her...don't get slept. It's easier than you think stay behind minions. I destroy people in lane because I Q clear the final castors and people do not respect my spell range with a W speed buff/flash+ E combo and they have no minions in front of them. If you don't respect a Zoe bubble by not having minions in front of you it doesn't mean the champ is broken it means you just don't know what you are doing. Of course if she lands full combo she's going to take half your health or more that's all she has in her kit is the combo.

Counters should really just be constituted as lane counters. Most low elo game 1 or 2 players are carrying the game and the rest are just filler, so win your lane you can carry. Her hardest kill pressure lane counters are Katarina and Fizz. The both have gap close, burst, and abilities that can dodge a straight on bubble she could use defensively on your all in or to force you out of lane herself.

Malzahar is tough to kill in lane for Zoe because you cannot sleep him easily with his void spawn blocking. He will be able to free farm minus a good gank and be just as big as her theoretically once landing ends. TF is also a champion who handles her pretty easily.

PokladnicaZla4 votes

Although this has been informative,most means accessible to champions such as item 3222 ,item 3140 ,summoner 1 have a high cooldown and it doesn't help that her E,at max range,nearly instantly turns into an AoE.

Votable Jester4 votes

I didn't realize a .8 second delay was instant.

General Esdeath 3 votes

It's almost like that's less than a second...

Votable Jester3 votes

Less than a second after you've already seen it heading for that location. If that's not enough time for you to react, you're going to have way bigger issues in this game.

General Esdeath 1 votes

I didn't know I had vision in fog of war through that wall. I guess I just don't look enough.

Votable Jester2 votes

They've also made it so that projectiles heading towards you in the fog of war (and walls) are visible from a distance.

Maybe you just don't know what it looks like in the wall? (I'm seriously trying to help you here because it isn't invisible in walls)

General Esdeath 1 votes

No I see it, but without seeing her and then suddenly this thing comes speeding at me faster than a hungry dog that saw a piece of steak, and then the aoe bubble catches me on the edge. THAT is just bull hockey.

Steelflame2 votes

You may just have poor reaction speed. For most things in this game, you can react on a far shorter time span. An example would be whenever I am playing Kayn vs Tristana, I wait until the moment I see her ult to ult her, so that I can jump her ult and end up on her. That is far less time than .8 seconds before it would hit me, more like .2.

General Esdeath 1 votes

But her ult doesn't have a hit box that stays after the animation is gone from the ground. Her ult also doesn't amplify her damage against you.

Votable Jester1 votes

Yeah it just knocks you and anyone around you a mile away from her while doing decent damage. It's just some incredible self-peel on top of her already good hop.

You seem determined to hate Zoe and justify being hit by her E trap.

General Esdeath 1 votes

See I'm annoyed at the idea of self peel on a mobile ADC, but it won't kill me.

I hate Zoe for several reasons, the biggest one being her kit is a contradiction to Riot's nerf to Nidalee for her Q dealing too much damage from far away.

Votable Jester2 votes

Except for 2 things.

1: Zoe isn't so far away as Nid was and has to pop up closer for a second as well. 2: Nid was super mobile, able to easily escape even if the enemy tried to engage on her. Zoe on the other hand has no real mobility outside of flash. This made it so Nid had far more leeway in her positioning than Zoe has.

The problem with old Nid wasn't just her long range damage, but how safely she was able to pull it off and how much else she had in her kit (mobility, a heal, an attack speed buff, and traps that gave vision of enemies for an absurd length of time). The only thing old Nid lacked was ranged waveclear.

Also it was a rework of Nidalee, not a nerf (she gained jungle strength and better engage/assassination potential).

I mean feel free to hate Zoe for deal a lot of damage from range. Everyone has their personal hatreds (I hate Yas for example, very original). I'm just bringing up points against your suggestions towards Zoe being poorly designed or her E being too easy to land.

General Esdeath 1 votes
  1. Zoe can go as far, and they just recently changed how it registers it.

  2. Nid couldn't transform pre-6 back then, and her CD is at a decent time unless she lands a spear/trap.

Nid was reworked because she was too weak due to that nerf. For a while, she was played as a bruiser top.

Zoe has CC in the form of a projectile and then an aoe zone to cut off routes, she can pick up a redemption or ANY summoner used by someone, has a mini sheen via her passive, a Diana W, and her ult is great for checking over walls.

Votable Jester2 votes

So what if Nid couldn't transform pre 6? Zoe's Q range is nothing special pre-6 anyways. We have been discussing them with their full kits available up until now.

Zoe's W is not reliable enough to really belong in an argument (and I do think they shouldn't have done the random aspect to it) unless you are talking about her picking up SSs and item actives from enemy champions, in which case there is plenty of counterplay available (namely not using them until she can't properly take advantage of them).

Also Zoe's W damage is much more similar to (but weaker than) Ahri's W. Yes Zoe's kit has a lot of damage and a fair bit of utility, but the sheer mobility that Nidalee had (as well as that heal to make sieges even easier) is something that should not be undervalued. The amount of engage necessary to reach Nidalee was insane, especially compared to Zoe (who is also effectively rooting herself for a second every time she ults).

I get it, you hate her whereas I find her extremely fun and refreshing. While I do believe there are some suboptimal parts of her kit (namely the randomness of her W), I do not believe she is as overloaded/op as you seem to think she is. I think old Nidalee is still far superior, and at this point I believe neither of us will be swayed by arguments made by the other.

General Esdeath 1 votes

Not being able to transform means her mobility wasn't an issue until the point where you both had ult, and her ult wasn't a great combat ult.

Yeah "Don't use any spells" is not really a great counterplay idea since she can pick up random spells from minions and if I don't use my flash I'll probably die to that j4 gank

Indeed we won't be swayed, but we do enjoy memes and civil discussions. You're a good guy.

Bârd2 votes

It still only hits one guy.

ldsjm44 votes

Dang, just realized that she's giving Tryndamere a nightmare, why else would he be screaming during his sleep when he R's?

On a more serious note this is quite well thought out, thank you for putting the time into this.

Lùmen3 votes

item 3222 doesn't work while it should

Fönikku3 votes

{quoted}

item 3222 doesn't work while it should

Perhaps, it was tried on Drowsy effect not the sleep?

WinBoat3 votes

Fizz Fizz is probably the best counter against her. Especially if he builds banshee's, and zhonya's, then well, there should be no reason he doesn't beat her. Before Banshee's tho, she can use her ult to dodge his E, or his R, but even then, Fizz is still great against her.

Kassadin might be a second choice, but that's more than likely just a skill match up.

General Esdeath 3 votes

This doesn't even change the fact Riot created a champ that revolves around the reason Nidalee was nerfed because it was wrong for her spear to chunk you from fog of war distance. 99 mistakes shouldn't be rewarded with 1 hit.

Only a CT champ would have a CC that moves faster through walls and becomes an aoe CC if she misses, rewarding her with a "no no zone" that has a hitbox for 0.5 seconds after the visuals end.

xelaker3 votes

yep this. People love to tell me the 45 second long cd ways to counter her, or to be a specific champ and I'm over here going "...but why does she need to be like this in the first place?" I'd be fine with her kit, and low cd if she had to roll the combo more than once to force me back to base.

General Esdeath 2 votes

If she SLOWLY poked me down it would just be annoying, but her current kit is frustrating and unfair and unfun to play against.

Blåbæret3 votes

Literally not one of these champs is in actual counter, you're listing stuff you could use against any champ. Let's get real here fellas: Zoe effectively does not have a counter.

Case closed. Now, can she get nerfed?

AirKingNeo2 votes

Not sure how having CC cleanses makes fighting her any better. QSS is over 90-second cooldown while her bubble is less than 10.

RottedApples2 votes

fizz isn't untargetable long enough to negate the sleep. if he gets hit by the bubble he will get hit by the q.

vlad might be long enough, the other two listed definitely aren't.

You have to dodge the bubble if you want to dodge the damage, it's that simple.

The morgana interaction pisses me off. I wouldn't mind if I could still get hit for the true damage if i shielded after the bubble, fizz ult for example will still deal damage if i shield after it hits someone, but it won't knock the target up if i do that, so why do i go to sleep from zoe. These spells basically act the same way, but are treated completely differently.

Bârd2 votes

Fizz and Vlad can pool at the last second to dodge the bubble itself, even if they didn't react in time to dodge normally.

Morgana is a weird interaction. Wouldn't be surprised if it got changed.

Oni Master2 votes

I'm fairly certain Yasuo gets wrecked by Zoe. Her enhanced autos go through wind wall for some reason. Also, wind wall CD is like 24 seconds. She could cast bubble like 3 times before it comes back up.

More from Gameplay

More by Bârd