Why is vayne so hard..

TekkenPlayer·Nov 1, 2014·1 votes·1,038 views

I guess it is because my cs is kinda subpar and I'm low elo and true vayne players play vayne non-stop, but my kiting isn't that bad and my condemns are usually at the right places

It's just that laning phase that makes me cringe.

Specifically vs

ADCS: Draven, Caitlyn

Supports (Mostly poke supports): Sona, Lulu

Outside of that..

Bruisers: Xin Junglers: Khazix

Supports I can't synergize with strangely: Thresh (vs a poke support like Lulu) Braum (I think im supposed to go ham after shield?) A passive blitzcrank (the ones who stand behind the ADC) Janna (Idk.. am I supposed to ballsdeep after Q?)

Maybe I'm too dependent on my support.. maybe im just awful at playing ADC but I want to improve. I end up building BORK but everytime I duel im usually at 50% health whether out trading the adc or not while the other is out of range while the support is poking at my HP

6 Comments

Skia AsteriNov 1, 20141 votes

Vayne is suppose to get hard to win lane with.

Consider watching some of the videos at: https://www.youtube.com/user/unswlolsoc/videos

I forget which one, but one has a segement specifically on how to play Vayne against Caitlyn.

DrogmyreNov 1, 20141 votes

Draven is a massive lane bully, that's his job. Cait outranges you, but isn't great vs. all-in. Sona isn't as pokey as she used to be, and is squishy as fuck. Lulu is similar pre-6.

Xin will get in your face and try to beat you the fuck up. Condemn him away from you, tumble away from him, just put distance between the two of you and he'll have a harder time of melting you. If your team is any good, putting distance between yourself and him should give them time to peel for you.

Kha'zix is less simple, but kind of follows similar logic to Xin: if he leaps on your ass, tumble or push him away. If he engages via stealth, tumble and try to bait his leap, then condemn (ideally into a wall.)

Thresh vs. poke tends to be more of a skillshot matchup (as in who can hit their skills more often, thresh or the enemy support.) If Thresh DOES land a hook, capitalizing on it is necessary: tumble+auto, try and hurt them if you can, and ideally get a kill. Don't force it though, a potential kill isn't worth risking a death and losing more CS, particularly if the kill would be vs the support rather than the carry.

I don't play with many Braums, can't really say for this one.

Blitz should not be passive like that, it's seriously a waste of his potential. If he's doing that, try and get the lane to push into your tower so you can secure more last hits and try and get him moving. Call for a jungler gank if blitz continues to be useless.

Janna is a sustain/poke lane. Tumble+auto after she lands a Q if possible, but not if it would put you in a bad position.

Vayne is not supposed to be a god-tier laner. She makes up for it by being massively difficult to deal with later in the game. Also, BoRK first or second item is USUALLY not the best idea, even on Vayne.

TekkenPlayerNov 1, 20141 votes

Thanks everyone for the laning tips and videos.

What do I build first vs poke heavy lanes? I only build BORK because everyone seems to do so... others seem to start with BT.

And again vs poke lanes, it seems that even if thresh lands off a good hook on the ADC the support usually chunks a large portion of my HP and if the thresh lands a hook on the support the ADC will go ballsdeep. It's hard to focus players vs poke lanes..

DrogmyreNov 1, 20141 votes

BORK gimps your DPS if you take it early. BT not only gives more damage, but the lifesteal and overheal shield REALLY boost your survivability in fights.

Against poke heavy lanes, if you're not doing so hot, you might consider picking up a second doran's blade. The extra HP and lifesteal will help you stay in lane and shrug off some of the poke, but try to avoid as much as you can (if, of course, it's dodgeable.)

When engaging with an ally thresh, try to either A. Condemn his target into a wall or B. condemn his ally away from your skirmish. Again, the goal with a landed Thresh hook is not only to get a kill, it's to wound the opponent so that they'll lose out on XP and gold and stop constantly poking you for a bit. If they're 'chunking you', just go for a tumble+condemn+ an auto or two and back off: that, plus thresh's autos should be enough to make them leave you alone for awhile.

Skia AsteriNov 1, 20141 votes

Thanks everyone for the laning tips and videos.

What do I build first vs poke heavy lanes? I only build BORK because everyone seems to do so... others seem to start with BT.

And again vs poke lanes, it seems that even if thresh lands off a good hook on the ADC the support usually chunks a large portion of my HP and if the thresh lands a hook on the support the ADC will go ballsdeep. It's hard to focus players vs poke lanes..

Against poke you want life steal, which the BotRK build path provides.

The first or second video in the series I linked has a segment on identifying when it is a good time to attack an opponent.

NoMonkuNov 1, 20141 votes

Draven and Cait are lane bullies. Draven will beat ANYONE who wants to play the facetank game, so don't do it. Cait will just outright poke you so you need to focus on CS. Try to stay back as far as you can and CS when she herself is CSing or you are outside of her AA range. In general, Vayne has one of the worst laning phases in the game, so you should be struggling with Vayne against equal skilled opponents.

The real power of Vayne, though, is she has incredible outplay potential, which means she can play off of opponents mistakes very well. The problem is you have to be able to see these windows and abuse them, which takes a lot of knowledge and practice. So just practice practice practice and you'll eventually get there, but just know that you technically SHOULD lose lane phase if the opponent plays correctly, so don't worry too much about it and focus on CSing and not dying.

As for supports, each one synergizes differently, you just need to know your windows. You just need to learn the matchups. Some matchups, like Lucian/Braum are incredibly scary as one Braum Q = a stun if Lucian AA + E + AA. Others if they have high poke and/or sustain, its best to not try and fight and focus on farming unless you know you can get the kill. As you're a late game ADC you need to actually GET to late game and how BADLY anything goes early doesn't matter too much as long as you're able to get the gold for your lategame status. Of course don't end up feeding the enemy ADC 10/0 or something, but don't feel bad about losing lane as you should.

Oh and what I originally was going to say, the reason why Vayne is so hard is because she is incredibly position reliant. If you're out of position you will basically get punished incredibly hard, it either being taking a LOT of damage for free or just straight up getting killed. Draven is similar to this, but he can usually straight up face tank early game, which Vayne can't do, so thats where the difference is.