What makes these champs so fun to play, but unfun to play against?

The Voids Call·Jan 21, 2016·2 votes·1,124 views

Seriously, you can completely dominate them in lane or all game, but still have a miserable time playing against them. Regardless of which champion you're playing as.

17 Comments

Sir YamazukiJan 21, 20162 votes

They are champions that even when they lose early it wasn't because their opponent played it, it was because the person playing those champions played poorly. I never feel accomplished when I beat a Lee Sin when I'm jungling, I just think "Wow that Lee is inexperienced".

AyRe CoNteMpTJan 21, 20162 votes

yeah ive always wondered why people having fun playing these champs... must be kids suffering from the wrong education

The Voids CallJan 21, 20161 votes

Well i can understand why they are so appealing and fun to play, what i don't understand is why they are the only champions who feel unfun to play against, while being so satisfying to play. Like Fizz is unfun to play against, but he also isn't very satisfying to play as.

There are tons of champions who are fun to play against, while also being fun to play.

AyRe CoNteMpTJan 21, 20161 votes

dunno, they dont feel satisfying to me at all, so cancerous.

Zero Skill TankJan 21, 20162 votes

Stop with this 'fun to play' thing. Pre-rework Nidalee players used to say that as well. If it tilts your opponent it is gonna feel good for you, that's how life works.

Those champions, and I would add Zed to this list, are unfun to play against because of their crappy power curve - way of countering them is being extremely careful for first 20 minutes of the game because of how powerful they are - try to trade Riv - and at best not even trying to make bold plays because of how save they are - good luck ganking Zed or catching Lee Sin. And than, after 20 minutes of dull, uninteresting game of carefully getting CS and dodging tornadoes/shurikens all the time, you just win a fight and push because if they didn't snowball they are now 0 - Zed can't ult reliably, Riv is just squishy melee, Lee can make an insec but he probably won't and it's not like insec means 100% lost fight. No fun it this as well.

Mr Broken WingsJan 21, 20161 votes

I have no problem with lee and yasuo and with riven as well ( that may be biased though). Its just that they look flashy and the "average " player doesnt like to get killed by something that looks flashy and builds offensive stats. If some tank 1 v 1 towerdives people like tham cancer with 2-0 stats while tanking 10 towershots its called balanced and healthy from some people around here, but if lee hits 2 qs, 1 e and ults the enemy and kills him with lead its " op". People dont like flashy snowbally champions because they can get out of control from a bad opponent really quickly ( and NOBODY in this community wants to admit that they got outplayed by them, its easier to act like they are completly overpowered even though they have horrible winrates for ages) People know these champs are not THAT strong, they just dont like admitting it for this reason. Burst is also a thing in this game that people dont like, there are people who wanted to nerf 40% winrate leblanc because she was still " op". Tldr: Dont take anything about balance about assasins/bursty characters from this community, people will shout out bullshit in 99% of the cases. Even riot ignores balance opinions on these champs~

The Voids CallJan 21, 20161 votes

I'm not even saying they are OP or not, they just simply aren't fun to play against.

I personally feel they tend to never be in a "balanced" state due to how they are designed. Either they are worthless numerically or way to strong enough numerically.

But i digress, they still aren't fun to play against even if you win. I feel it's a result of how much mobility and mechanical control they have over any fight, it just feels like you're stuck in a spot where only their skill is being tested. Either they are good enough to beat the best possible play of your champion, or they aren't.

Don't get me wrong, i feel that you can always improve on what every champion you're playing, but it just feels like their maximum potential is so much higher than any other champion and it's way to easy to achieve a competent level of "skill" on them.

Mr Broken WingsJan 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Voids Call,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O0fMBH2X,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-01-21T10:36:45.657+0000)

I'm not even saying they are OP or not, they just simply aren't fun to play against.

I personally feel they tend to never be in a "balanced" state due to how they are designed. Either they are worthless numerically or way to strong enough numerically.

But i digress, they still aren't fun to play against even if you win. I feel it's a result of how much mobility and mechanical control they have over any fight, it just feels like you're stuck in a spot where only their skill is being tested. Either they are good enough to beat the best possible play of your champion, or they aren't.

Don't get me wrong, i feel that you can always improve on what ever champion you're playing, but it just feels like their maximum potential is so much higher than any other champion and it's way to easy to achieve a competent level of "skill" on them.

The difference here is that they ALREADY are tuned down numberwise for that reason ( 10 basedamage on riven q for example ). If you pick these champs you will be statistically worse then somebody who just instalocks malphite in every case. Riot expects you to already be a lot better with these champions then the opponent to make them work, thats why these champs are not allowed to hit 50% winrate in any case. play 100 riven matches and play 100 malphite matches, youll statistically win more games with malphite even if you play riven a bit better. And yasuo for example is really easy to shutdown and I dont feel frustrated against him at all. Not even lee, I dont get that at all. Its not different for me to face these champs then to face a talon or irelia, honestly. General hate about these champs made the people automatically feel bad when playing against them. ( People took it way to far with the "lee is op XDXDXD thing for example and this resulted in people hating him even when he is shit ) In low elo the same happens with master yi, everybody cries about him being op and frustrating in low elo for example, is he? No. Do these people think so? No. Overall its just a psychological thing, not these champions being THAT much different imo.

PennsJan 21, 20161 votes

I like to admit when I got outplayed and I write "wp" when I actually got outplayed quite often. But when Lee just presses R for a 100% Q hit, thats not an outplay, sorry lol. And Yasuo can go 0/3 in lane and still be relevant with a item 3086 or item 3087 .

Mr Broken WingsJan 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I like to admit when I got outplayed and I write "wp" when I actually got outplayed quite often. But when Lee just presses R for a 100% Q hit, thats not an outplay, sorry lol. And Yasuo can go 0/3 in lane and still be relevant with a or .

In my games yasuos tend to be horribly useless in 90% of the cases and feed their asses off with the project skin. I never saw a lee who wasnt 20-0 r q me and instakill me even when picking a squishy champ either. Yasuo actually is pretty average midgame if not fed, he spikes early , gets another spike with shiv and if he doesnt have lead then generic bruisers roflstomp him for 15-20 minutes straight till he finished 4+ items and thats more then enough time to get lead out of him because he is SOOO easy to shutdown.

VesarixxJan 21, 20161 votes

Play Quinn , then Riven is very fun to play against.

Maple CrusaderJan 23, 20161 votes

To be honest, Quinn is a middle finger to everyone who wants to go melee top, not just Riven.

VesarixxJan 24, 20161 votes

Not everyone, would not recommend her into Fiora.

Death by GlamourJan 21, 20161 votes

The ability to outplay people because of an arguably overloaded kit.

In rivens case its how hard she can trade with you and then just run away when you try to trade back.

CatastropJan 21, 20161 votes

Because all you think when you outplay one of them is "Wow, they're bad," and not "I played that so well."

VeraskaJan 21, 20161 votes

Agency -how much your decisions affect your fate is really empowering but for your decisions to matter it makes it so your opponents decisions matter less, which is unfun

Also most champions in lane are gated by mana, the champs you listed specifically are not so fighting them feels like a losing battle even if you trade evenly

Maple CrusaderJan 21, 20161 votes

They are mobile, relatively safe, hyper snowbally, manaless, and do burst dmg.