Teleporting to a ward and getting a kill should give the person who placed it an assist
Don't see any reason for this to not be a thing
Don't see any reason for this to not be a thing
NO Riot has stated that any kind of vision ability/item/etc dosent not provide assists because of how easy can be to be abused..
If wards now provide assists then TF/NOC/ASHE/ should take assists every time they use their abilities
And every time someone use oracles should take an assist for using oracle and allow someone to see where the enemy was
and so on..
You see why this cant be happen?
Ok thanks!
i think this case can be an exception; ward isnt used for vision but for synergy with
. It's not reasonably acceptable for assists to apply for entire duration of the ward tho we would start seeing people use their damned trinkets more often, but applying assist for teleports on a ward within 3 seconds of placement should be reasonable.
Yeah, I get the feeling this commenter didn't read the post, because the post had absolutely nothing to do with vision.
Did you read his comment?
He's saying it wouldn't ever happen because ANYTHING RELATED TO VISION Riot has specifically said would NOT HAPPEN.
Teleporting is completely _unreleated _to vision, hence it not falling into the category of "anything related to vision." I understand that some players might have a hard time wrapping their heads around the concept of a multi-purpose item, like a ward, but it's function as a tp location is completely separate and unrelated to it's function of granting vision.
It's not unrelated. It's entirely related.
The simple fact that wards ARE vision is the reason it's an issue.
They are readily accessible by EVERYONE. LITERALLY EVERYONE.
I understand some players may struggle with the concept of comprehension, but try reading what he is meaning, not what he is writing.
Fact is buddy, you read ward. You then read vision. You then immediately disregarded his comment under the basis of "Ummm, actually, it's not EXPLICITLY 100% VISION RELATED COS OP DIDNT SAY SO". It's nitpicking AT BEST
The issue he is pointing out isn't vision granting assists, it's that everyone has (immediate) access to vision, so tying any form of champion kill-assist to them is too easily abusable
I based my response on what he meant, not just what he wrote. You're putting words in his mouth that he didn't use.
The comment was pointing out that Riot has said that they won't give assists from vision because of potential abuse. He even went out of the way to say "vision ability/item/etc" to indicate that he was talking about anything, in general, that gives vision. Assuming he correctly paraphrased what Riot has said, this means their fear of abuse focuses exclusively on the vision component of something like a ward (not the fact that you get it early, otherwise this reasoning wouldn't justify not getting assists for other vision-based things like Ashe's E or Teemo's R).
He even went out of his way to explain that allowing assists due to vision would be OP because it would allow assists from vision-granting abilities such as Ashe's E. Last I checked, you cannot teleport to Ashe's E, meaning that OP's proposal could in no possible way grant assists from Ashe's E, which means that the commenter misunderstood what OP was saying (which is what I was pointing out). His use of examples also implies that his comment was only in response to the possibility of assists solely from vision.
OP explicitly proposed assists to be granted to ward-droppers where someone teleports to the ward and gets a kill. Nobody, anywhere, proposed that a ward-dropper should get assists by virtue of a ward's vision, which makes any argument about assists from vision moot, because that isn't the topic of discussion here.
OP suggested one idea, the commenter argued against a completely different idea that was never proposed, and I pointed out why that was wrong. This is a textbook Straw Man fallacy.
Assuming he correctly paraphrased what Riot has said, this means their fear of abuse focuses exclusively on the vision component of something like a ward (not the fact that you get it early, otherwise this reasoning wouldn't justify not getting assists for other vision-based things like Ashe's E or Teemo's R).
Exactly. That is my issue.
You have disregarded his comment ENTIRELY off of an assumption.
Here's how I saw it:
Points out the issue that tying assists to anything that itself has ANY RELATION TO VISION is an issue due to accessibility.
He further reinforces this by pointing out how various vision granting effects currently function, while also pointing out that were this to go through, people would request this next.
He's pointing out the chain-effect this would cause.
You obviously didn't read this because you got as far as the ninth word and then wrote the whole comment off as worthless.
So yeah, I'll straw-man you if you straw-man others. You took one word part of what he said and used it to completely disregard his point.
It's not unrelated. It's entirely related.
The simple fact that wards ARE vision is the reason it's an issue.
They are readily accessible by EVERYONE. LITERALLY EVERYONE.
I understand some players may struggle with the concept of comprehension, but try reading what he is meaning, not what he is writing.
Fact is buddy, you read ward. You then read vision. You then immediately disregarded his comment under the basis of "Ummm, actually, it's not EXPLICITLY 100% VISION RELATED COS OP DIDNT SAY SO". It's nitpicking AT BEST
The issue he is pointing out isn't vision granting assists, it's that everyone has (immediate) access to vision, so tying any form of champion kill-assist to them is too easily abusable
Dude, TP is on a 5 minute CD and games last anywhere from 20-50 minutes, meaning at max efficiency it's 10 extra assists in a 50 minute game. That's not even counting TPs that are used for baron plays, TPs used on your own wards, and TPs where you don't kill the person until 15 seconds after you've completed your TP (meaning the assist timer should've timed out by now). Realistically, you're gonna be getting something like an extra 2-6 extra assists per game.
I don't think that's exactly abusable.
I don't really have an opinion on it.
I just didn't like how Hungry calls the original comment irrelevant simply because the guy included the word "vision" in it.
This is more pointing out that the original commentor's point is this would set a precedent that shouldn't be followed - a point Riot apparently has shared at least at some point in the past.
Are u high or something? use ur brain Einstein. Since when did u start playing this game a week ago? do u have any concept about the CD of the summoners spells
Wards provide vision but In conjunction with tp the vision that wards provide is irrelivant as they are being used as a jumping off point for as blink not a vision tool in that scenerio.
This is the last time I will say this.
It is not about the vision
It is about the fact that because they CAN PROVIDE VISION, they are READILY ACCESSIBLE BY EVERYONE.
Read the comment, not just blah blah blah **VISION **~~blah blah blah ~~
so what if they can provide its not gonna matter with the 4 second channel on teleport and so what if they can be redily acessable by everyone its got a 5 minute cooldown and only one person can get the assist and promotes good warding.
It promotes awful warding.
It promotes holding on to them to throw down as TP wards, where the vision provided isn't even a factor.
If you ever hold tp until you in a fight 1 enemy gonna see it run and you get nothing and have no wards after that. Which is why tp ganks suck after it got over 2.5 seconds
Here's how it will be abused. When a player has a choice between a ward and a minion or turret nearby, they will prioritize the ward because it can effectively give your team 50% more gold per kill.
That's fine to me, to be honest, because people do stuff like this all the time already. When a player has a choice between killing the enemy champ or not, the choose not to and prioritize letting the adc get the kill. Soraka chooses to use her ult, even when it's unnecessary, because she's prioritizing gold rather than utility. People make nitpicky choices all the time in order to cheat gold from the game.
Plus, this can be easily rectified by saying that there cannot be a minion within x distance of the ward.
Soraka chooses to use her ult, even when it's unnecessary, because she's prioritizing gold rather than utility.
I don't think throwing away global pressure for the next 2:20 is worth 150 gold on a support.
Thresh w gives vision and assists :^)
noc and ashe and tf should get that assist thats a pretty long cooldown they wasted for it and tf only if they reveal a champion that wasnt visable. But any way placing a ward isnt vision related with tp its movement realted like putting down thresh's lantern and the ally pressing it to move tp does the same thing but with a channeled blink
I can see a reason. The requirements for getting assist credit is already so incredibly low, how rare would it be that it would even make a difference? Anyone can already gain assist credit while making no absolutely contribution to achieving the takedown; you can heal someone at 98% health who isn't even in range of taking damage and gain an assist already. With that being the case, how often would it be where they would not already be getting credit? It'll take dev time and can introduce bugs and it's just not worth it for such fringe cases. I'll also mention that introducing such a thing would violate the current time limits on assists as well.
Like let's consider it: Top laner is in a side lane. Enemy team starts pushing a tower and the top laner teleports to a ward placed by the support's sightstone to flank and start a teamfight. Their team gets two kills. The questions this proposal raises are:
How likely is it that the champion the support healed or shielded did zero damage to one of those enemy champions and neither did the support but they got taken down anyway? And, knowing that likely hood, is it worth the time and cost to have someone rewrite the code of how assists work instead of working on other features just to give that support a mere 37 gold?
Teleports to a
trap because it's placed better for him
Gets 3 kills
"DUDE WTF WHY DIDN'T YOU TELEPORT TO MY WARD SO I COULD GAIN ASSISTS?!?!?sdgfsadnkfglsafgzdsfgzjdsfbv"
[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NlAnpjbU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-12-22T09:24:27.303+0000)
I can see a reason. The requirements for getting assist credit is already so incredibly low, how rare would it be that it would even make a difference? Anyone can already gain assist credit while making no absolutely contribution to achieving the takedown; you can heal someone at 98% health who isn't even in range of taking damage and gain an assist already. With that being the case, how often would it be where they would not already be getting credit? It'll take dev time and can introduce bugs and it's just not worth it for such fringe cases. I'll also mention that introducing such a thing would violate the current time limits on assists as well.
You can soraka ult someone at 100% and then get an assist 15 seconds later
I don't think heals at 100% provide assists, do they? Or am I missing something about Soraka's ult?
It does, I believe.
But, even so, you're rarely ever at 100% health, barring times where you just came out of base.
Maybe if she has Ardent it counts the stat boosts, not too sure.
You do, i do it for no real reason.
"TF is ulting to another lane for a fight? Here, let me just toss a heal or shield onto him for that tasty cross-map assist gold!"
Or, that one time I procced Relic Shield for Azir as he was leaving bot lane and got an assist when he killed the other midlaner when he arrived in mid lane...
maybe if they placed it within a certain time frame, then it would be a higher chance it was deliberately placed to allow you to teleport in rather than just sight warding.
maybe if they placed it within a certain time frame, then it would be a higher chance it was deliberately placed to allow you to teleport in rather than just sight warding.
Should be same time frame as any other item/ability time frame, like the time between shielding/healing someone and them getting a kill
no it should be longer. because teleport itself takes time and setup and then there's the matter of getting the kill. I'd say add on at minimum the time to teleport in.
I agree with this as a fill main. Especially for low to medium elos this would help inferior players to remember to ward more a bit. Just a bit. As it also makes sense since the ward set up the play in certain regions of the map.
That's actually a great idea.
Also, amazing Gamertag.
I imagine someone at Riot had the idea before but something went wrong.
This would also benefit the current snowballing problem as people would get more money and build items faster -> making it more possible to make impossible early games winnable.
Well that inflates the gold people get in games, making games EVEN shorter Even if it’s 1 assist the whole game it’s still more gold
^ agreed