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Essence Reaver. What if...

Syllin·Aug 17, 2015·9 votes·1,820 views

What if Essence reaver didn't give life steal. What if instead it was an item directed more towards AD casters (as it sort of is currently with... questionable exicution) My proposed changes:

Essence Reaver +

80 - AD X - % CDR X - Armor penetration Unique passive - still restores Mana on hit. (just leaving the stats open ended because i have no idea how this would be balanced and at what the price should be for its balance.

What does this solve? well it gives a new item for our AD caster class ( ) and most importantly OPTIONS. Theres some reward as far as sustain goes once you hit the full item, without being an abusive "Buy this and laning phase is EZ life" kind of item. meaning zed wont have even more unlimited sustain and never have to leave his lane. (but seriously riot... his laning phase... lets be real here). It also feels like it can be bought at any point in the game and still feel like it pays off nicely. Early game? hey you get some extra mana for lane. mid/late game? hey you now have that AD/pen boost for them squishies.

It also gives some more Pen options as far as . Id maybe limit the armor pen to a unique passive so that you cant get this and ghostblade. or rather you can if you dont care about the wasted gold. Every other class has their big shiny item that is like their beacon of "this is core to the class. it will grant you much success. now go forth and kill things. have no mercy"

TL;DR new item idea/item tweak idea, probably OP.

27 Comments

CindikleAug 17, 20153 votes

It would work. But not with 80AD AND armor pen.

Add a ER mini that builds with brutalizer.

50AD 10% CDR 15 Arm Pen

Mana restoring passive.

SyllinAug 17, 20151 votes

i def think there should be more than 50. but the other stats seem reasonable.

CindikleAug 17, 20151 votes

Problem with that is flat pen is one of the biggest damage boosts you can get vs low armor targets(squishies).

Say you have an 100 armor target(a little high, but not too far off most at higher levels, just an easy number).

43 is taken off from LW+Masteries. We'll say 8 from runes(I can't remember how much 9 reds gives atm).

So we have a target with 49 armor. We'll say 300 AD. You'll do 201 damage a hit. Take off another 15. You now are hitting for 223. You're getting 23 AD worth from that pen. Take note this is only factoring in your basic attacks.

Now looking at Talon's W. Which will deal 260+1.2bonus AD. Following that 300 means he has 192 bonus AD.

At 49 armor he deals 328.8. 34 armor 365.6. A 36 damage increase. Which evens out with what 30 AD would of given him.

This is all assuming level 18. Where the target will have more base armor. Getting this as an earlier item means that this gap is larger. This is also assuming ~10 armor higher than your normal squishy will have including 9 from runes.

This is also assuming a 120% bonus AD scaling ability.

It would be stronger early/mid game. Even or a little weaker late game. Armor pen also helps keep it in the hands of AD casters over ADC's as well. While they too like the armor pen. They get most of their damage from mixing Crit/AS/AD than building for ability damage.

And that's currently the problem. ER is not a weak item. But it is not an item you build early. ADC's and AD casters both have more important items to build than what this gives. By the time it's reasonable to build this item. You should be able to more easily manage your mana from levels. So the whole point of building it is gone. And in that same time frame you likely could of built a Tear. Which will give you more damage for a lot less. Only thing you lose out on is the CDR. It's a strong item and a great idea, it just doesn't have a roll though. What it's good for, you can build a Tear and get more.

Since the damage overall stays the same or similar, the life steal can probably stay. But it doesn't need it or it could become a little cheaper. Maybe grant other effects like 5% MS or

SyllinAug 18, 20151 votes

right. this is exactly why i was leaving the exact balance open. maybe it doesnt need 80 AD. maybe it doesnt need 20 armor pen. thats all up in the air. i was looking more towards what it specifically offers. I think if it offered this combination of stats there are several characters that would find the item appealing without being a "must have".

AMYS GRAVEAug 17, 20152 votes

My proposal is similar,

Make an ER light, like a vamp scepter but without the lifesteal but returns mana instead.

ER light + Brutalizer + gold = ER.

As a result ER gives a little less overall AD but gives mana earlier and gives CDR.

SyllinAug 17, 20151 votes

i kind of ennjoy the idea that you have to work for the mana regen. as it honestly does completely remove the concept of mana from the champion in question. dont give it to them too early. If anything I'd add some fairie charms to the build. or like a item 3114 or something.

Edit: the nice thing is that this item MIIIGHT just stay out of the hands of riven/Zed due to the mana portion. which would be nice... because who likes zed and riven in their games?

AMYS GRAVEAug 17, 20151 votes

Longsword + Fairie charm + gold = ER light?

SyllinAug 17, 20151 votes

maybe if it was just a regular AD item that gave 50% base mana regen. that'd be kinda snazzy

AtheosisXAug 17, 20151 votes

I still think 20% cdr is the way to go on ER.

SyllinAug 17, 20152 votes

20% might be a good stat i think. I just think they should take out the life steal so it can be allowed to have that kind of power.

AtheosisXAug 17, 20152 votes

The point is to make it an item people want to buy. Giving it 20% cdr while removing its life steal would be one step forward and one step back on that front. No one buys ER for a reason. Because it sucks.

SyllinAug 17, 20151 votes

right but this adds armor pen. which is an amazing stat for ad casters... so it makes its not a good item on straight up marksmen, but pretty amazing on people who went to get on those marksmen.

Paradise ProxyAug 17, 20151 votes

>AD caster

GIVE IT SPELL VAMP :^)

SyllinAug 18, 20151 votes

I fear the day AD casters get spell vamp O_o

BuzzinTateAug 18, 20151 votes

it should actually steal mana away from the enemy, or at least make a mage variant that does this

DesideriumAug 18, 20151 votes

It's kind of important that it gives lifesteal because that's what makes it so powerful for mana champions. It gives double sustain in a single slot.

SyllinAug 18, 20151 votes

good point. However, if you are an AD caster you would spend less time auto attacking anyway. even if you did want life steal theres a plethora of other places you can get it.

freaking dorans blade -groan- kinda wish they never added life steal to it but its there now. in addition, vamp scepter is not hard to grab.

SuperLuigiLXIVAug 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kenny Raccoons,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NjhENFAE,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-08-18T16:00:03.407+0000)

good point. However, if you are an AD caster you would spend less time auto attacking anyway. even if you did want life steal theres a plethora of other places you can get it.

freaking dorans blade -groan- kinda wish they never added life steal to it but its there now. in addition, vamp scepter is not hard to grab.

So what if we did it this way:

Essence Reaver:

Faerie Charm + Brutalizer + gold

10% CDR +15 Armor Pen +50% mana regen

Passive: Absorption: x% of physical damage dealt by spells is added to the Essence Reaver's pool.

Active: Conversion: Immediately convert Essence Reaver's pool into mana. This amount cannot exceed 40% of maximum mana, and drains the entire pool regardless of actual mana regained. 2 minute cooldown.

SyllinAug 18, 20151 votes

this seems interesting, but there doesn't seem much point in making this into an active. seems like it would be better to just give the mana regen on hit. that way the restoration is controlled (you still need to auto attack) but is allowed to be powerful. You can still go oom by spamming spells.

SuperLuigiLXIVAug 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kenny Raccoons,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NjhENFAE,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-18T19:24:58.137+0000)

this seems interesting, but there doesn't seem much point in making this into an active. seems like it would be better to just give the mana regen on hit. that way the restoration is controlled (you still need to auto attack) but is allowed to be powerful. You can still go oom by spamming spells.

One of the problems Riot stated in the past about helping AD casters with mana regen is that it can help other autoattack reliant champs even more. I think, if the item is to be good enoug hto be worth the buy, it has to be so in a way that makes it better for AD casters when compared to straight autoers.

SyllinAug 20, 20151 votes

i think as is, auto attack relyant champions wouldn't really see this item as "I NEED THIS". sure they CAN pick it up but I would think that the benefits would be marginal compared to other auto attack focused items. why buy this when phantom dancer is available? or last whisperer? those items will multiply your damage much more significantly than this item would. Auto attack heavy champions are going to be more focused on busting down those tanks with higher armor numbers. This item itself doesn't really do much to deal with tanky enemies and is more focused on assassiny/spellcasty AD champions who want to blow up the softer champions.

NilokAug 18, 20151 votes

I wonder about instead of life steal, it only gives spell vamp, or the new Will of the Ancients version of it.

This would mean that it would heavily favor AD casters who deal their damage with abilities, while dissuade other physical damage champions who deal their damage primarily from auto attacks.

SyllinAug 18, 20151 votes

yeah that seems like it would be an interesting new item, but the idea of AD casters being able to sustain from auto attacks and abilities is frightening.

SyllinAug 18, 20151 votes

actually i was just thinking, what if this item converted all purchased life steal into spell vamp...

Angry MonsterAug 18, 20151 votes

you just made an item more expensive than a IE. You should think about that and realize why this is a bad idea.

SyllinAug 20, 20151 votes

right which is precisely why i left the actual balance/pricing open ended.

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