My Champion Design Tier List

Frosted Tips··7 votes·4,828 views

Tier list is not how good or bad the champion is but how fun and healthy they are. Not necessarily at there current numbers, but their kit design.

S Tier: Orianna Thresh A Tier: Ashe Braum Ekko Elise Ezreal Gangplank LeeSin Lucian Nami Nidalee Rakan Rumble Sion Taliyah Viktor Yasuo B Tier: Ahri Akali AurelionSol Bard Camille Galio Gragas Graves Irelia JarvanIV Jayce Jhin Jinx Kaisa Kassadin Kayn Khazix KogMaw Lulu Maokai MissFortuneOlaf Nautilus Nunu Poppy Pyke Singed Swain TahmKench Talon Varus Xayah XinZhao Zed Ziggs Zyra C Tier: Aatrox Alistar Anivia Azir Cassiopeia Corki Darius Evelynn Gnar Katarina Kennen Kindred Kled Leblanc Ornn Renekton Rengar Riven Sejuani Skarner Sona Syndra Taric Tristana Trundle TwistedFate Twitch Urgot Vayne Velkoz Vladimir Warwick Xerath Zac D Tier: Annie Blitzcrank Caitlyn Chogath Diana Draven Fiora Fizz Hecarim Heimerdinger Jax Kalista Karma Leona Lissandra Lux Malphite Malzahar Morgana Nasus Nocturne Quinn Rammus RekSai Ryze Shaco Shen Shyvana Sivir Soraka Teemo Veigar Vi MonkeyKing Zoe E Tier: Amumu Brand Garen Illaoi Ivern Karthus Kayle MasterYi Pantheon Tryndamere Volibear Yorick Zilean Trash: DrMundo Fiddlesticks Janna Mordekaiser Udyr

Disclaimer: Obviously this is 100% opinionated. If you guys want to know why I put a certain champion in a certain tier just ask. Also if you would like to share what you disagree with or would like to change my mind please do so.

PS. I'm missing a few champions and I just can't figure it out so let me know and I will add them.

53 Comments

Mordepool6 votes

Healthy kit design

Hmmmm

A tier. Yasuo

"Yup Yup. Nothing to see here Move along folks. "

Go about your business

TheMysticWar4 votes

Explain why is fuckingYasuo is A butLux is D LOL Kassadin B tier... im just guessing you were just bored at that point putted him in some random place (reminder of his 97%banrate) NidaleeEven after her rework and now that shes balanced she just isn’t a good design You know ZoeKatarinaMonkeyKing aren’t good designs when they aren’t allowed to be good Good in general imo except other cases that just aren’t worth mentioning

Frosted Tips2 votes

{quoted}

Explain why is fuckingYasuo is A butLux is D LOL

Yasuo has a ton of super easy counters, and has many different was to play different match ups. He is super easy to destroy all game, but he is rewarded if he plays right or the opponent plays wrong. He has to always be in someone's face or pushed up so he is susceptible to ganks constantly. Lux has a hit Q blow my load gameplay. How is that a good design?

Kassadin B tier... im just guessing you were just bored at that point putted him in some random place (reminder of his 97%banrate)

Reworked and has been sitting in a much steadier spot. He may be a little overtuned right now but this post isn't about being over or under tuned but about design of the kit.

NidaleeEven after her rework and now that shes balanced she just isn’t a good design

She rewards players that play her very well. She is a very niche champion. I would have maybe put her at B tier, but I think her niche is healthy and good enough for A tier.

You know ZoeKatarinaMonkeyKing aren’t good designs when they aren’t allowed to be good

Wukong is dated and needs a VGU. There is no question about it. Zoe breaks too many simple gameplay mechanics IMO. Kat is overly tedious to play and to play against now IMO.

TheMysticWar2 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo has a ton of super easy counters, and has many different was to play different match ups. He is super easy to destroy all game, but he is rewarded if he plays right or the opponent plays wrong. He has to always be in someone's face or pushed up so he is susceptible to ganks constantly. Lux has a hit Q blow my load gameplay. How is that a good design?

Reworked and has been sitting in a much steadier spot. He may be a little overtuned right now but this post isn't about being over or under tuned but about design of the kit.

She rewards players that play her very well. She is a very niche champion. I would have maybe put her at B tier, but I think her niche is healthy and good enough for A tier.

Wukong is dated and needs a VGU. There is no question about it. Zoe breaks too many simple gameplay mechanics IMO. Kat is overly tedious to play and to play against now IMO.

Yasuo You just can’t say one of the most cancerous and frustrating champions is good designed because he isn’t. What you’re mentioning is right but remember his tower safety, windwall coming from his model and him making your minions your enemies Kassadin His rework was basically gut him. No other change, his design is garbage just like oldAkaliandDiana hit 6 and rape you That isn’t a good design no matter he has 60wr or 40 Nidalee Her rework was good at making her kit healthier and rewarding players for doing more than press Q but she has dmg per distance a heal with %AS a 6second dash she belongs at B/C imo MonkeyKingZoe deserve to be at tier E or trash. About kat she has a delay in every ability and she is very predictable in general still doesn’t change that she is poorly designed.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Again Yasuo is completely fine. Has tons and I mean tons of counters and counter play. Kassadin was gutted, yes. Until they could figure out what to so with him. And they succeeded sorry you hate assassins. I agree Diana is not ok because she is supposed to be a fighter but she doesn't have the items to do so and her kit is lacking a bit of survivability to be a proper fighter so she is an unhealthy assassin. Again Nidalee is extremely niche and that is why a grade her high. She has a very unique role that I personally find healthy and enjoyable. I put Wu and Zoe at D because they have a bunch of potential yet they are just not quite there. That is my opinion on my grading scale.

EbonyBladeJ882 votes

Why are Garen and Yorick E Tier? Just curious.

All the Juggernauts in fact are on your lower portions, C and lower. Do you have some vendetta against them? I mean, some I can understand, as DrMundo Mordekaiser and Udyr are in desperate need of VGUS (And if Riot's past words are to believed, hopefully at least Morderkaiser and possibly Mundo will be getting them in 2019). Do you think that their kits lack complexities or intricacies that would otherwise make them more fun to play?

Frosted Tips1 votes

Garen is E tier because he is extremely unhealthy. He is designed as a simple champion which is fine, but in his case he is over simplified causing there to be a lack of counter play for a large group of champions against him. Also his villain mechanic is ridiculously idiotic. Punishing people for doing well. Kinda like old Veigar Ult.

Yorick has become less fun and less unique sense his rework. He is kinda like Nasus where he just split pushes nonstop and only joins the team for neutral objectives.

Maybe I'm not a super fan of Juggernauts, but I mean Morde is super fun IMO put he is bugged to shit and that is the main reason he is Trash. I don't mind playing against them I just see some unhealthy mechanics on each one.

As for Mundo, he needs a complete rework. He is not unique or healthy. He has practically nothing worth keeping. Morde just needs to work. Udyr needs actually abilities and he would be fine. Like right now you get a tiny ability when you activate a spell but it needs to be more, so there is more desicion making on when to use the spells and what they are for. So yes I agree they are lacking complexity.

EbonyBladeJ881 votes

Garen's kit actually does have complexities. Let's look at it one part at a time.

His passive only boosts his regen when it is active. Hitting him with one auto-attack or damaging ability places it on CD, reducing his regen. Granted at LVL 11 the cool-down to reactivate it is reduced from 9 seconds to 4, but the same rule of ONE Auto-attack or ANY damaging ability STILL places it on CD. He cannot activate it at will, he cannot reduce it's CD by buying CD reducing items, and, if you have something that applies Grievous Wounds, his Regen will FURTHER be reduced while it is on CD. Constant poke PREVENTS him from getting his Perseverance, and thus his Regen.

His Q, upon activation CLEANSES him of all slows currently affecting him. With proper timing, a Garen can remove a slow nearly instantly after it has been applied to him. But, it does NOT say he is IMMUNE to slows afterwards. Meaning, if you can get the Garen to use his Q PRIOR to you applying your slow, you can render the MS boost he gets to be ineffective. Consistent or repeated slowing effects, such as Ashe 's Frost Shot or Trundle 's Pillar of Ice can remove his speed boost almost as quickly as he can gain it.

Next, his W. For the first 0.75 seconds once activated, he takes 60% less damage and gains 60% Tenacity. For the remaining duration, he takes only 30% reduced damage. Through wise use, his W can act very similar to Fiora 's Riposte. But remember, that initial Tenacity and DMG reduction only apply during the first 0.75 seconds. The remaining duration has no Tenacity and the DMG reduction is halved.

For his E, it applies 33% more damage to a SINGLE unit. Meaning, if he is hitting more than one unit, such as a group of minions and a champion, or even a single minion and a champion, those ticks of his E will NOT apply the additional damage. It means the Garen player must position himself wisely to get the very most out of his E.

Lastly, his R. It is an execute that deals bonus damage based on missing health, the amount dependent on the rank of the skill. (28.6% for 1, 33.3% for 2, and 40% for 3). The more health you have, the longer it takes for Garen to get you low enough to execute you, which if played around wisely, can let you occupy him so that other team-mates can come and aid you against him, or allow you to escape and prevent him from getting a kill, if your character has a dash or a blink or a knockback to boot him away.

Next, here's what the tool-tip itself says about the Villain passive: "The enemy with the most kills in the last 5 minutes is marked as the Villain. The mark cannot be assigned to another champion while Garen is in combat with the Villain. If more than one enemy has the same bounty, the enemy who received it first is marked the Villain."

The Villain passive ONLY comes into play at LVL 6 at the earliest. Meaning, if you can shut him down early and keep him from getting levels, you keep the Villain passive away for as long as possible. Also, it REQUIRES that a member of the opposing team has gotten some kills. If he is in a low-kill game, yes, someone will be marked as the Villain, but that also means that as long as that does not change, the bonuses granted do NOT apply to someone that it COULD be more effective on, reducing his ability to shut down that potentially more threatening opponent, until he finally kills his current Villain.

So there we are. Yes, his kit IS Simple. But, by looking at the tool-tips and what they entail it CAN reveal some complexities and mechanically intensive aspects. I NEVER said he had ALOT of complexities, only that he had SOME.

Wind2342 votes

Firstly, you're only missing two champs: Elise and Kalista

Secondly....I'll admit, your list here has me confused on a lot of placements. I suppose it doesn't help that I don't know what you view as "healthy" and "unhealthy," or what your criteria is for what makes a good or bad design. I'd certainly amend your post to include that information, so people aren't left scratching their heads. Having opinions is all well and good, but when there's nothing to gauge it with, we can only measure it against our own subjective opinions, which is just gonna lead to a lot of people wondering what you're trying to convey.

Lastly, I'm noticing that a lot of the more mechanically complex champions are towards the top, while more simpler ones are towards the bottom. Note there are some exceptions to this, but I'm wondering why precisely that is. Complexity =/= good design, just like simplicity =/= bad design. I find it very interesting precisely because some of the high-up champions on this list (Thresh, Yasuo, GP, Nidalee) are ones that most people seem to complain about, while ones that people don't are towards the bottom (Vel'Koz, Sivir, Warwick). It's an inverse that I'm curious about.

(I will say, I agree with most of E and trash tier. Some of those designs need a real overhaul)

Frosted Tips1 votes

First thank you

I am biased towards complex champions that is true, but if a champion is overall simple which is usually more common than overly complex they are unhealthy.

Thresh - Is S because he offers so much yet he is very much skill based. If you don't make him at least 90% effective you are usually not going to do that well. He has a very high skill ceiling and I think that it never gets to a point where he is OP if you are too good at him.

Yasuo - So many counters, so easy to abuse, can only escape in the dangerous direction with his mobility. He is a well designed champion that has good rick and reward.

GP - He is being abused right now, yes. I believe this will be fixed soon and once that happens he will again be in a place like Thresh where his skill ceiling is high af, but never OP.

Nidalee - Again high skill ceiling yet she can get to an OP point often if you have perfected her.

Vel'Koz - He is C which is average. I think he is fine. I would not say he is low on my list. I just personally don't like his Ult stacking his passive more than once. I wish he was more balanced around landing abilities before he ults.

Sivir - Idk I have never felt like she has ever been fun to play as or against, and she is just so reliant on mana it hurts.

Warwick - I think his Jungle is too safe and he just can be anywhere always. I also despise damage reduction that is not from armor or mr.

Added Elise to A and Kalista to D btw

Moody P2 votes

this is so fucking bad rofl. Sion in A, Orianna in S, Illaoi in E LMAO -- guarantee I won't be surprised if I look at your rank, dude.

obvious preference for mages and marksmen, obvious dislike for juggernauts even though they're inarguably the fairest champions in the game

Frosted Tips1 votes

Sion is just overtuned right now. His kit when the numbers are how they have been is really good design. His cc and damage is all dodgeable.

Orianna what are your arguments?

Illaoi is horribly designed and everyone knows it. I like playing her but she is not a well designed champion.

Lol mage preference? Marksman are on average at B tier which is ok. Juggernauts are not the most fair always. And also this is a biased post I literally said it would be.

Moody P1 votes

yeah seems to be a recurring trend with sion where he becomes remotely relevant and becomes one of the least interactive stonewall lane bullies, but it'll be fixed next time right? x) I sure do love his uncharged Qs taking out a fourth of my health every time I try to CS, or how when I outplay him by CCing him during Q he gets a reduced cooldown so I just wasted a CD for maybe 3 minions before he does it again.

orianna well designed how? has 0 flaws and low counterplay, especially paired with a tank who she can slap E on for an unmissable ult. let alone the fact that by herself most champs are forced to flash or die when she combos them and it's a massive AOE. nice "utility mage" design, just like the other tumors in taliyah, asol, liss and karma

Illaoi is a very well designed champion who has great matchups and bad ones. She's easily one of the highest counterplay champions in the game and is physically capable of completely shutting someone out of the game unless they're just really bad at playing. Her only real issue is that she's got maybe too much counterplay and could afford to be a little less self-CCing. Who says she's bad design? Silvers? She's incredibly fair to anyone who actually learns the champion. And I don't see a single Illaoi game in your match history, you want to show me your mastery score?

Juggernauts are objectively the most fair because they're universally susceptible to getting kited. Their items can soften the weakness, but not nullify it , and they don't hard counter any strat or comp singlehandedly. None of them are generalists, so they don't force other champions out of the game just by being viable themselves, while at the same time most of them can maintain stable performances even in unfavorable metas. They fit very well into what they're meant to do and how they're meant to be counterplayed through teamwork and coordination, while their own team can build and play around them to prevent that. That is excellent design and, for the most part, Riot's done a good job with them since they were officially classed in 2015.

Edge of Daybreak2 votes

I think what people forget about a tier list is that personal bias goes into it so your opinions will be different and most likely just as "bad" in someone else's eyes. Saying this is bad isn't changing anyone's mind. As for OP I would like to know the general bases for the different tiers instead of having to ask why every individual champion is there. Looking at it I couldnt really tell much of anything.

Frosted Tips1 votes

I see what you mean with trying to explain the average reasoning, but they are all so different. And if I put a general rule then everyone goes crazy on something that doesn't follow that rule. And I can never recover from that to have a reasonable conversation because of how the community it.

Eleshakai2 votes

Thresh is not an S. He's so overloaded with things to counterbalance any intent at adding a weakness that he'll never be actually weak.

Thresh is justified at being an A or a B tier, I'd say, but S implies damn-near perfect design, with well defined strengths AND weaknesses. And Thresh has no weaknesses.

Frosted Tips1 votes

He is weak. I has to use his kit to the fullest to do all of his jobs enough to be good. He is an all around support with engage and peel and a get out of jail card, but he has to be played near perfect to do them all well at the same time while other champions that are more focused into 1 or 2 roles can do their roles with much more ease.

Eleshakai1 votes

{quoted}

He is weak. I has to use his kit to the fullest to do all of his jobs enough to be good. He is an all around support with engage and peel and a get out of jail card, but he has to be played near perfect to do them all well at the same time while other champions that are more focused into 1 or 2 roles can do their roles with much more ease.

he's weak because he's been neutered numerically speaking, not because he has WEAKNESSES.

Thresh offers engage, protection, mobility to other champions, a metric ton of cc, he's durable, peel, lane strength, and even poke(during lane).

He completely ignores the 'rock paper scissors' of laning supports because he offers everything to some degree, all while being EXTREMELY safe.

Ya, he takes a lot of skill, but that doesn't justify him having EVERYTHING with no overt weakness other than 'I have to play well'. A well designed champion needs a weakness. Something about him that others can exploit. And 'I need to play well' is not a weakness.

Frosted Tips1 votes

*Good amount of CC and kinda durable, and loses lane to ranged champions, poke against melees. For him to play safe he must fork over lane pressure. It is a risk vs reward game with thresh. His weaknesses are long cooldowns and being less tanky than tank supports and shorter range than traditionally ranged supports. Having to play well is a fine weakness when you include his others.

Eleshakai1 votes

{quoted}

*Good amount of CC and kinda durable, and loses lane to ranged champions, poke against melees. For him to play safe he must fork over lane pressure. It is a risk vs reward game with thresh. His weaknesses are long cooldowns and being less tanky than tank supports and shorter range than traditionally ranged supports. Having to play well is a fine weakness when you include his others.

None of those are actual weaknesses.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Lol ok I'm done trying to reason with you if that is what you think. Good luck learning to play against that well balanced champion if you don't know or can't comprehend his weaknesses.

Eleshakai2 votes

{quoted}

Lol ok I'm done trying to reason with you if that is what you think. Good luck learning to play against that well balanced champion if you don't know or can't comprehend his weaknesses.

In the laning phase, he does as much damage as any non-heavy poke mage. He outdamages most sustain champs. He outlasts most non-tanks. He's basically at least B-tier at EVERYTHING. A generalist should have at least 1-2 categories they're weak in. Look at Nami - who is, in my eyes, the most well-designed support, she's one of the squishiest champs out there, and she has no way to damage minions really. She's a generalist with a weakness. That weakness is engage. Thresh is a generalist with NO weakness. He does enough damage to make poking him usually useless. He has enough protection that going all-in on him is often a waste. He has enough CC that you have to play safe against him typically. He basically does EVERYTHING and does the majority of it better than a lot of specialists. Yes, he's not as tanky as a tank, but he's not THAT far off during lane. No, he won't do late-game damage like a poke champ, but as long as he doesn't get hit by everything and gets his flay-empowered AA off, he'll trade very well.

Thresh is balanced by them dropping his numbers to levels that would make the abilities laughably weak on any other champ. They had to do that because his kit is OBSCENELY overloaded. Which means he is NOT S-Tier in terms of design, because they HAD to compensate his design by giving him abysmal numbers.

haaaaaaalp2 votes

I'm curious why you put so many of the season 1 champions so low. The game was awesome back in season 1 and 2 when those champions dominated the landscape because it forced players to play both at a micro and macro level. I would argue they are much better designs than some of the more recent champions who overemphasize the micro aspect of the game.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Great question.

I would like to start off by saying I think those champions were great when the game was overall simpler like it was at its beginning. It is just that Riot has forced the game to be more complex, so when I champion is too simple it becomes an issue to the other ones because if you nerf it too much they become unplayable because they only offer 1 to two 2 things and if they are viable that means usually the more comes champion has to play near perfect to effectively fight them at all. That to me is the reason they are low. The times have changed and Riot is not looking back so they have to change in order to be healthy in this day and age.

haaaaaaalp1 votes

{quoted}

Great question.

I would like to start off by saying I think those champions were great when the game was overall simpler like it was at its beginning. It is just that Riot has forced the game to be more complex, so when I champion is too simple it becomes an issue to the other ones because if you nerf it too much they become unplayable because they only offer 1 to two 2 things and if they are viable that means usually the more comes champion has to play near perfect to effectively fight them at all. That to me is the reason they are low. The times have changed and Riot is not looking back so they have to change in order to be healthy in this day and age.

Then isn't the problem the newer champions where riot has tried to force too much micro play into? The game won't really be healthier until those new champions are reworked. Making the older champions more micro intensive will only make the problem worse. The best thing riot has done for the assassin class was revert the reworks and there is still time for them to realize they need to do something similar for other classes.

Also, probably just nitpicking but out of curious, why are camille and vi so far apart? I always felt that camille was just vi with stronger numbers and faster cast times.

Frosted Tips1 votes

See I'm at the perspective that Riot will not go back on making the game more complex. So the simplsimpler champions to the are dated and need changed. So I made the list with that in mind. Your way could be totally valid and possibly work. I think the problem is that there is a disconnect more so then that one way is more healthy than the other. So choosing either direction is a requirement. I disagree a little bit with going back because the lack of diversity was much more prevalent back then. Don't get me wrong maybe it would change, but I'm scared it will be like 3 S tier champion and like 2 A tier champions per position and everyone else is D tier.

As for Vi and Camille:

Vi: She is really doesn't offer much out play potential for either party. The majority of her damage and mobilty are on the same abilities which I find a problem in. She just requires a snowball or she becomes an ult bot.

Camille: she has multiple was to play lane, poke with W and comet or all in with E and PtA. She has more counter play to her Ultimate then Vi. My biggest problem with Camille is how much true damage her Q does. I think her Q should do half the damage but also reduce the charge time and cooldown, so she is more sustained dps than burst.

haaaaaaalp1 votes

{quoted}

See I'm at the perspective that Riot will not go back on making the game more complex. So the simplsimpler champions to the are dated and need changed. So I made the list with that in mind. Your way could be totally valid and possibly work. I think the problem is that there is a disconnect more so then that one way is more healthy than the other. So choosing either direction is a requirement. I disagree a little bit with going back because the lack of diversity was much more prevalent back then. Don't get me wrong maybe it would change, but I'm scared it will be like 3 S tier champion and like 2 A tier champions per position and everyone else is D tier.

The lack of diversity back then was just from there being less total champions. The power difference between a lower tier champion and a higher one was much smaller than it is now. Also, I don't feel it is worth sacrificing overall game health just for complexity.

As for Vi and Camille:

Vi: She is really doesn't offer much out play potential for either party. The majority of her damage and mobilty are on the same abilities which I find a problem in. She just requires a snowball or she becomes an ult bot.

Camille: she has multiple was to play lane, poke with W and comet or all in with E and PtA. She has more counter play to her Ultimate then Vi. My biggest problem with Camille is how much true damage her Q does. I think her Q should do half the damage but also reduce the charge time and cooldown, so she is more sustained dps than burst.

I think that comes more from numbers than champion design. From a design standpoint, vi's damage in lane comes from her e and not her q, her numbers just happens to be under-tuned across the board. Meanwhile, jungle camille relies just as much on hitting her gap closer to win duels as vi does (camille just happens to have one that is much easier to hit).

Frosted Tips1 votes

I would argue that the percentage of champions near that S and A and even B tier from a balance level is much higher now than it was way back.

I don't think the game gets inherently unhealthy from complexity so I don't agree with that either.

Wait are you saying lane Vi? Because I'm arguing based off of their more commonly picked roles.

haaaaaaalp1 votes

{quoted}

I would argue that the percentage of champions near that S and A and even B tier from a balance level is much higher now than it was way back.

I don't think the game gets inherently unhealthy from complexity so I don't agree with that either.

Wait are you saying lane Vi? Because I'm arguing based off of their more commonly picked roles.

I was refering to vi overall, I just added lane vi as a comparison for lane camille. They are both primary junglers right now.

As for balance, there are more overbuffed champions now than before because riot just did a set of unnecessary buffs to mid tier champions to push them into overpowered range but the gap between the top tier and the bottom tier is also much larger. There is much more of a two tier system of decent and trash champions than before.

Deathhawk8882 votes

IMO Velkoz has a very healthy kit. He’s never been broken or trash. And he’s maintained about a 50% WR since release with almost 0 balance changes.

Frosted Tips1 votes

My biggest issue is that his Ult procs more than 1 stack of his passive. I feel like he should need to land 2 abilities or both parts of W then ult to get the true damage and passive proc.

Daddy Ants2 votes

Here's my OPINION

My opinion on how the champion is designed and how fair/unfair it is to play against them.

**Good: **

Jinx Nunu Orianna

**Average ** Ahri Anivia Ashe AurelionSol Blitzcrank Braum Camille Cassiopeia Corki Elise Evelynn Ezreal Fiora Galio Gangplank Gragas JarvanIV Karthus Kassadin Kindred Kled KogMaw Leona Lissandra Lucian Lux Morgana Nami Nautilus Nidalee Ornn Poppy Quinn Rakan Rammus Renekton Riven Rumble Shyvana Sion Sivir Skarner Sona Soraka Swain Syndra Taliyah Talon Taric Tristana Trundle TwistedFate Twitch Urgot Varus Vayne Velkoz Vi Viktor Volibear Warwick Xayah Xerath XinZhao Yorick Ziggs Zilean

Toxic Gameplay or Overloaded kit: Aatrox Akali Alistar Brand Caitlyn Darius Draven Ekko Fizz Garen Gnar Graves Hecarim Heimerdinger Illaoi Irelia Janna Jax Jayce Jhin Kaisa Katarina Kayn Khazix Leblanc LeeSin Lulu Maokai MasterYi MissFortune Nasus Pyke Rengar Shaco Singed TahmKench Teemo Thresh Tryndamere Udyr Veigar Vladimir MonkeyKing Yasuo Zed Zoe Zyra

Rework needed: Amumu Azir Chogath Diana DrMundo Fiddlesticks Ivern Kalista Karma Kayle Kennen Malphite Malzahar Mordekaiser Nocturne Olaf Pantheon RekSai Ryze Sejuani Shen Zac

TekkenPlayer1 votes

I wont deny how fun YasuoLeeSin Lucian Viktor are, but they share a common trait of all being unhealthy kit wise. They are prone to being absolutely broken or potentially useless to the point where skill cap is barely a variable to how they translate their usefulness in game

Frosted Tips1 votes

Yasuo I don't agree with unless there is a drastic change to crit itemization, Lee is Riots fault for random buffs that are uncalled for, Lucian maybe down to B tier but I really don't see him become ridiculous often, Viktor IMO has a great kit, but has yet to have it balanced properly with numbers, but I could be wrong.

Magia Erebea1 votes

This tier list raises a lot of questions.

Frosted Tips1 votes

I would love to answer them if you would like to ask.

Magia Erebea2 votes

Forgive me if you've answered this previously in another question in the thread, but how to do you determine the weights applied to fun and healthy gameplay when ranking a champion? I ask because there are certain champions that I am curious as to your opinion on. For example, I am a Morgana support main. I find her to be quite fun. I also find her to be quite balanced, as she has been rarely touched when it comes to balance for the last 3-4 years, yet has remained consistently viable without being particularly overbearing (certain exceptions apply, such as when she was so strong during season 4). Yet she is placed below certain other champions that have received extensive changes over the years, alongside many complaint threads (though the validity of some come into question).

A champion that I, personally, find to be unhealthy would be Ezreal. He's not really overloaded. His damage isn't consistently broken. Yet, still once or twice a year, he breaks certain items that were meant for different champions and/or roles. One that comes to mind is the jungling enchantment Runeglaive. Another is when he abused the support items associated with Spellthief's. He's also notorious (along with Tristana) for being able to completely invalidate certain CC abilities. For example, he can get blasted with a Morgana Q and then E the instant it hits. He's still rooted and takes the damage, but his Arcane Shift gets him out of immediate danger in many cases. This is also true with Arcane Shift in response to Blitz hooks. For a Blitz hook, he only takes the damage, but otherwise gets away with no consequences and completely invalidates the ability. There may be other examples, but I'm currently quite intoxicated and not capable of thinking of them.

With that said, I don't play Ezreal, so I cannot attest to his fun factor as opposed to what I perceive to be an unhealthy champion design in relation to other champs. Thus I restate the question, how do you determine the weights applied to fun and healthy gameplay when determining the rank of a champion?

Frosted Tips1 votes

They are all determined with variance. So parts of it are my personal enjoyment of playing them. How it feels to play against them. With that it needs to feel terrible to play against them if they are fed if it doesn't that would probably lower their tier. Off roles, build diversity, average annoyance.

Yes Ezreal usual does become broken for a bit, but he is usual fixed relatively quickly. I find him super fun to play and not to terrible to play against. While Morgana is low because imo she is a huge annoyance to face. I don't think that the power in her kit is distributed well. I feel as if her ult is so underwhelming now. And I hate her passive. I think she has potential to be fun again, but Riot pushes her away from it constantly.

Lastly, every way I rate champions changes importance based on what I believe the champion should do.

Magia Erebea2 votes

Another question I have is- Did you consider these champions in their natural/intended roles, or was it where they landed after the natural evolution that comes from balancing and/or meta. Brand is an example I would bring up were he listed (unless I just didn't see him, which is possible), but instead I'd like to mention Nidalee since I notice you have her listed as A Tier. Over the years she has been played in jungle, mid, and top lane primarily. So, would you consider the health of her intended role, the role she was currently occupying, or did you average all intended roles out?

Edit: I found Brand. Let it be known that I do, in fact, have eyes.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Ok with this I would say that I have considered it based off of current main role and the ability to play their old role if it is still possible. For Nidalee she can't truly go mid with any viability, but she could top if done extremely well. So that does come into play.

Emmy Cha0s1 votes

You placed Sona WAY TOO HIGH on that list. She is a literal caster minion with no basic abilites and a really bad ult. I don't know about you, but I didn't queue up to play a caster minion ward-bot.

Frosted Tips1 votes

I mean that is my opinion, but she was between C and D tier for me.

Wacky91 votes

Why is Yorick E-Tier? He has a unique and powerful kit with a variety of ability types not seen in most other champions. Very few champions have abilities like Yorick's.

Why is Ivern E-Tier? His kit is unique as well and is fairly balanced.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Yorick is less unique and less fun to play than prior to his rework. He is just a split pusher now and that is it.

Ivern will never be healthy as a jungler because of what the jungle position needs. If he is viable he is broken.

RyzeTheSmurfMage1 votes

Why are Lissandra and Ryze in the same tier as fucking Zoe? And Talon being Tier B? Yasuo A tier? What did you smoke?

Frosted Tips1 votes

They are all there for different reasons. After a combination of m opinion of game health, fun to play, fun to play against, fair to play, and fair to play against, and a many other reasons Ryze, Lissandra, and Zoe landed together. Talon is close to being a C Tier. Yasuo was close to a B Tier because he is so easily dumpstered in lane but then I remembered those champions that destroy Yasuo are low on this lists and many need changes.

Zeref1 votes
Frosted Tips1 votes

why is that?

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