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Thresh is not only the most picked support but also the one with the highest winrate

THE RlVER KlNG··97 votes·6,610 views

He's been like this pretty much since the tank update. Wil we be seeing any nerfs soon? I see him in every other game and I'm sick of playing against this champion. He has the best of both worlds with S-tier pick-making as well as peel and utility that outclasses many of his class. He's rarely if ever out of meta and I think now when he's clearly overtuned and too dominant it's time to take a look at his kit. And no, it's not new coin or whatnot, that item is garbage on him and I've never seen any of the Mastery 7 Threshes I keep playing against build it.

(also Blitzcrank? Really easy to play champion who has been in the top 3 supports with 2nd-3rd highest pick rate usually behind Thresh and Lulu. His design is flawed and toxic, with a binary press Q to win kit that makes laning vs him a chore. People like to say he's just a low-ELO pubstomper but he's had the second or third highest statistics of a support in high ELO for as long as I can remember. Are we ever going to address his outdated and anti-fun kit?)

Source: op.gg

240 Comments

Ahristocats32 votes

blitz nerfs here we go again the board is back to 2014

THE RlVER KlNG14 votes

We meet again old friend

Ahristocats12 votes

yeah we meet again

except that instead of being downvoted like me, you're being upvoted because you suggest to nerf blitzcrank but since the game is balanced around plat+ i guess blitz will be nerfed

as for thresh i hope that his 20% ban rate will help meddler to decide to nerf him

Marshbouy50 votes

except that instead of being downvoted like me, you're being upvoted because you suggest to nerf blitzcrank

He's being upvoted because his post actually isn't terrible and because people are sick of thresh.

Ahristocats11 votes

i made 3 threads showing thresh ban rate and got downvoted for asking thresh nerfs

Marshbouy7 votes

[zombie-brand-clap]

Dextix LT2 votes

[deleted]

Ahristocats8 votes

XD

stay mad kid dw

Automated Riven7 votes

lol why do people think your an ass? I dont see it.

Ahristocats3 votes

cuz 1 or 2 days ago, i got an information from someone named MagÊ that meddler might buff coin or not depending on spellthief so i made a thread quotting meddler which was absolutly wrong, to tell him to change the coin quest for multiple reasons

turned out it was wrong, and meddler was going to buff coin in any way while spellthief might be nerfed and because of that, i got backlashed+people thought that i insulted meddler when he's the rioter i respect the most and i defend him 9 times out of 10

PB4UAME10 votes

Right, so you messed up, and attacked someone else based off hearsay and false pretenses. Clearly you're the victim here.

Dextix LT27 votes

Acts like an elitist, nobody below him matters. If you disagree with him he will again, pull rank and if you disagree with him more he will proceed with insults and finally the "ignore". And then wilfully misrepresenting Riot for no reason. While i have no love for Riot, lying aint good either.

EDIT: This is also without counting your alternative accounts such as "Metal Malicious".

Ahristocats2 votes

where exactly did you see this? cuz i just went deep deep down in my history of posts and never saw what you said

lying aint good you say

kappa

Mogarl17 votes

While there are people that behave worse than you, you do have a history of pulling rank. Pulling rank isn't always a wrong move, but you need to have a background of always making logic grounded arguments to be able to support it. (otherwise you just piss people off)

That said, you do have preferences in gameplay just like any other player. You support things that feel good for your play pattern and attack (attack being a strong word in some cases) things that feel bad for your play pattern. You have made both emotional and logical arguments, and don't always keep them separated.

Reputation wise this damns you in two ways. Logic based people don't hold you in regard because you've switched to emotion to defend or attack. Emotion based people dislike you because you've slapped them with logic.

I'm not saying you deserve the hate crew (following someone around and downvoting everything they say is stupid), but you've set yourself up for this overtime.

Personally I've upvoted you before and downvoted you before. You say very reasonable things occasionally, but you also are prone to being just as emotional as the people following you around downvoting you.

PB4UAME15 votes

Exactly this. As a long time lurker and occasional poster from all the way back in Season 1, and as someone who has played from low-mid diamond all the way to bronze 5 let me just say that absolutely no one appreciates an argument that is solely you claiming to be better, more knowledgeable, and especially outright correct simply due to your rank.

Any single time I see you do this RubicK, and it has happened many times, I downvote you, and I'm usually far from the only one as those types of comments of yours tend to just get buried. This should really tell you something, and the fact that it hasn't, and that your behavior hasn't changed, yet you then turn around and strawman anyone who downvotes you, including insults and ad hominems. . . shows that you really do deserve the hate and downvotes sometimes because, let's face it. In those instances, you are actively not contributing to the discussion, you are instead making it about some other issue entirely, and often about yourself. You keep this up, especially the latter part, and then wonder why people dislike your boards presence and will downvote you without waiting to see if you actually have an argument this time.

Saying, "I am in Diamond 2, and at this Elo, and occasionally when I play in games as low as Diamond 4, or as high as Diamond 1 with the occasional Masters and Challenger player, I tend to notice more of X and Y such a thing than I do when I spectate my friends in silver-plat. I think this discrepancy can be explained by A and B, but perhaps we should also test to see if C has any bearing." is a way that you can 'pull rank' so to speak, and further establish your Ethos without committing logical fallacies and making yourself out to be an asshole

Hèntaî 6 votes

I can get you some candy if you need it. I have skittles, starburst, and a gummy bear.

Sahn Uzal5 votes

Gimme those Skittles fam

deadlychuck28 votes

The problem thresh has is the literally every single one of his abilities is too flexible. In a sense, he gets 5 offensive and 5 defensive abilities. He has for the longest time been one of THE MOST overloaded champions in the game.

Q: Hard CC, gap closer, and when used while running increases the total distance. W: Obviously the shield, but mechanically it's both a gank assistance tool and an escape tool E: The passive just gives him raw offensive power, but even the flay itself can be used to peel or stick, all while disrupting. R: Comes up too fast to really dodge effectively, but the slow and duration makes it act as a zoning tool and a stick tool. Even his passive provides AP making him offensively stronger and armor making him defensively stronger than average (despite him lacking the natural armor scaling).

Mister Support21 votes

First off all...the scaling of his souls is pretty meh if we're being honest (3 AP/Armor for every 4 souls...and usually get 2 souls per minion wave early on yayyyy). Second, just to have the same armor as a level 18 Nami (88 base armor) Thresh needs 96 souls which is pretty normal scaling speed for a Thresh. Thresh's AP scaling is pretty shit aside from his ultimate just to ensure he won't go for full AP builds with his passive.

Finally, you said he gets 5 offensive and 5 defensive abilities. In reality, it's 4 offensive OR 4 defensive abilities. Because if Thresh wants to go all out offensive or defensive then he has to commit all of his abilities for that purpose. It's not both at the same time. Hooking an enemy for a pick won't magically stop divers. Flaying someone for peel won't magically pull squishy carries towards your team as well. It is one or the other.

The problem right now for Thresh lies in his reliability to land a high amount of burst damage if he can land a hook due to his combo of Q > R > E > auto. It's a very high damage combo that is guaranteed unless you miss the hook or the enemy has a cleanse. If you truly want to hit Thresh, the ease of this combo should be removed by having it where casting an ability aside from Dark Passage while an enemy is affected by Death Sentence should remove the Death Sentence effect. In other words, casting The Box or Flay while an enemy is hooked should set them free, forcing Thresh players to have to plan out the use of The Box better and increase the skill cap on Thresh.

TL;DR Thresh's actual power isn't the issue, the problem is the reliability of pulling off a full combo on one enemy once they are hit with Death Sentence.

Ahristocats9 votes

i disagree

thresh's damage are garbage except with ult, and if he uses ult to do damage he blows up 150 sec cd spell his E passive makes him decent at poking other than that, in a 2v2 thresh will suck at dealing damage

he has nothing else, and his base ad is garbage, same for his attack speed

meanwhile blitz has 300 damage on Q+double damage on E that can reset his AA+ult passive+ult active and thunderlord

the thing that makes thresh broken atm is that poke supports were nerfed allowing him to get an easy laning phase unlike before the only support that can destroy him is lulu and she's permabanned

he needs -10 base ms and that will at least drop his win rate by 2%

TheMoralSupport1 votes

Just wanna point out that Blitz is easier to read than thresh and more punishable, don't mind me tho [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

PB4UAME3 votes

While this is true, that offsets Blitz slightly greater damage potential and slightly better pick potential. A lot of Blitz's power, especially in lane, is caused not by hitting a hook, though that can be a quick kill, but rather from the threat of him having his pull available. While it is easier to play against Blitz, one also has to be more actively aware of positioning and must play against Blitz to, imho, a slightly higher degree than they would have to against Thresh.

The champions are different, though I can well see the grounds for comparison. I feel like the difference is that Blitz is more feast or famine, and Thresh is more well rounded. With that in mind, it makes sense to me that Thresh would be better with and against most comps than Blitz does, so the higher pick rate is quite understandable. I would say though, that the winrate discrepancy would be call enough for RIOT to look deeper into the potential causes, but I don't think its enough to warrant any form of changes in and by itself.

21 shiny nickels6 votes

Well, his Q is called Death Sentence.

Marshbouy11 votes

I've been sick of thresh for so goddamn long. He's rarely below a 10% playrate and he's constantly a very powerful force in the games i play. If you get hooked by him and laning phase you're dead. If you get E'd by him in laning phase you are dead. If you catch out his ADC, nope, lantern. I legitimately hate facing him, but i never say it because "ermagerd supports are garbage"

Big Lincoln9 votes

thresh needs big nerf, blitz is fine

THE RlVER KlNG5 votes

I think both need a nerf but Thresh more so. If Thresh is nerfed and Blitz not I would be happy I suppose, as Blitz isn't as overloaded as Thresh is, but Blitzcrank has a really toxic and outdated kit that could do with some modernizing. Rocket Grab is probably the most powerful basic ability in the game and Blitzcrank doesn't really suffer enough for everything else his kit provides.

Big Lincoln6 votes

Veigar E is way stronger than Blitz hook imo

the rest of his kit is pretty mediocre outside of having good AP ratios that support builds don't make use of. tho if he were to be reworked I would say put his hook on his ultimate, make it way crazier, and rebalance him for top lane

JaxMoonStealer2 votes

I'm curious: Why rebalance him for top lane?

Big Lincoln4 votes

his kit is more appropriate for a fighter, considering he's got steroids and high scalings. and he was originally designed to solo lane

his hook is just so valuable that he can go support and still carry immense value from level 1 with no gold

xScarfy14 votes

I don't think Blitz needs a nerf. A nerf would probably result in him becoming useless...he needs some kind of rework to adress his anti-fun kit and to take his power away from his Q. Blitz is basically completley reliant on hitting his Q, the rest of his kit is just a follow up.

THE RlVER KlNG3 votes

Hence why I said I prefer an update. I've only mentioned a flat nerf once, in the comment above, in all others I said he could do with a little rework.

Moooose37 votes

Seems like you just can't dodge skillshots.

Thresh hasn't been touched in forever. He has remained the same as he always has been. He's a perfect example of a balanced champ that has a ton of counterplay and requires skill to do well with him.

THE RlVER KlNG22 votes

Yes, you are correct, I have never dodged a single ability in my life. It's especially hard, considering I play large tank supports like Tahm Kench who often has to body block for my ADC. I really wish I didn't play support and was as skilled as you, who obviously has never been hit by any skillshot ever.

Clapper of Asses4 votes

Ik you are being sarcastic and all, but as a thresh and tahm main (i have over 100k mastery in both) I find it weird that you have trouble with thresh. I always pick tahm into thresh, all you gotta do is eat the adc when he gets hooked. I'm not high elo and i don't think you are a bad player by any means, but in my personal opinion shouldn't you be happy that Thresh is being pick so often?

Moooose37 votes

as a master thresh 1 trick, tahm kench is the most aids fucking champ to play against in lane. Hate it more than zyra or literally any other counter. Tahm Kench can die in a hole.

Dextix LT17 votes

TahmKench "Too salty for my taste"

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

Thresh can still pull himself to you if you eat ADC that was hooked. By eating the ADC you've acknowledged you'll lose the trade and want to run away. If Thresh pulls himself to you and E's you, then he's effectively displaced two champions instead of one and completely shifted ye trade in his favor as Tahm has not only blown one of his major offensive tools but also denied his ADCs ability to damage the enemy.

Moooose26 votes

The tether gets cut short by a significant amount if memory serves correctly. And following that hook basically gets you killed since it uses all cooldowns while adc is immune to damage and gets you stunned.

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

You've never played Tahm against Thresh or Thresh against Tahm then. That's not how the trade works in the slightest.

Moooose29 votes

I guess in my 1200 thresh games all diamond 4+ all the way to master I haven't played against TK.

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

As a Tahm main that's in diamond 5+, I can also easily testify that RLVER KLNG has no idea what he's talking about with this match up.

SUPP0RT MAIN3 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NQjbaeNe,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-06-17T16:02:30.649+0000)

Yes, you are correct, I have never dodged a single ability in my life. It's especially hard, considering I play large tank supports like Tahm Kench who often has to body block for my ADC. I really wish I didn't play support and was as skilled as you, who obviously has never been hit by any skillshot ever.

dont you let adc get hooked/dodge and then eat him/her and run away?

THE RlVER KlNG18 votes

If he requires skill to do well with him then why does he have a 40% pickrate and approaching a 54% winrate? If he's so balanced then why is he unequivocably the best in his role right now and has been for a couple of patches?

Moooose34 votes

Thresh hasn't had any legitimate changes(non-bugfixes) for 3 days short of a year. What makes him op now?

The Bardic Gay13 votes

{quoted}

Thresh hasn't had any legitimate changes(non-bugfixes) for 3 days short of a year. What makes him op now?

Don't be ridiculous. Champion balence doesn't even remotely exist in a vacuum. Every change to every single champion in the game, and every item in the game, has an effect on individual champion balence, even to the smallest extent. Thresh's role just had major itemization changes and two dominant picks nerfed while popular adcs have shifted to all in champions like twitch and draven. All of these things contribute to thresh's balence state, weather hes overpowered or not.

Morticianjohn3 votes

Also some ADCs starting Dorans Shield is a huge buff to thresh with his all in potential compared to poke oriented champions like karma and zyra.

I think Riot will probably address Doran's Shield first before looking for more direct nerfs to Thresh (although due to all of the things you mentioned he will likely still need nerfs).

AirKingNeo4 votes

Me, a melee champion who can't dodge because he's literally in melee range.

Hook, flay, hook, flay, hook, flay.

Wow, I can't move.

Moooose33 votes

Melee range hooks are the hardest to hit lol. You cover the most angular distance in the smallest window of time. I see now you really are a boosted ape.

SnakDatSmilesBak4 votes

They're practically guaranteed if you flay the target first.

LSmaster162 votes

You would be right except Thresh hooks travel in lines, not cones.

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