Lee Sin actually represents good champion ideals when it comes to design

DJ Siamak·Dec 24, 2014·6 votes·826 views

His kit isn't like the average bruiser such as Xin Zhao or Pantheon who is literally just a stat check.

He actually takes a bit of skill to play and has to play well to beat his opponents.

Lee Sin represents better ideals for bruiser design than Xin/Irelia/Pantheon/Jax/Wukong/Trundle because you can still outplay a Lee that is stronger than you unless he is hopelessly ahead, and a Lee that is a bit weaker than you can still finds ways to deal with you without dying, and with the way that Riot nerfs Lee's kit, he is generally going to be a weaker duelist than you unless you were already lowish on health or he was a fresh level 6 with two longswords and a machete, and even then you might still win if you have your ult as well.

10 Comments

God is AFKDec 24, 20144 votes

You can't outplay a lee, his kit is so overloaded that he can make several mistakes but still come out on top against other champions. People considering him a weak duelist is laughable since he's got so many ways to catch and kill people, and those ways can also be used to escape death easily.

DJ SiamakDec 24, 20142 votes

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You can't outplay a lee, his kit is so overloaded that he can make several mistakes but still come out on top against other champions. People considering him a weak duelist is laughable since he's got so many ways to catch and kill people, and those ways can also be used to escape death easily.

He's a weaker straight-up duelist than all of the aforementioned champions.

Sire HippingtonDec 24, 20143 votes

I agree tha he is better designed than Pant or Irelia, but he currently is somewhat overtuned and his inital design is incredible flawed by the existence of ward-steps. if he doesn't screw up big times, u won't be really able to out play him, however, if he's behind in a stats race, he can still turn a fight by outplaying, which most bruisers can't. He has all the tools to easily capitalize on mistakes, aswell as getting away savely if he makes a mistake him self.

RebonackDec 24, 20142 votes

Lee Safeguards into your face, slows you with Cripple, lands his Sonic Wave when you're too slow to dodge it, Ults you, and then finishes you off with Resonating Strike execute that he has because reasons.

What room is there to outplay him, exactly? The only ability he has that requires any 'skill' to land is his Q, and the thing is on a pretty low cooldown. This is like arguing that AD Nid required 'skill' when she was strong because you could just 'avoid the spears/traps' and she wouldn't be able to instagib you.

NaelarstraszDec 24, 20141 votes

People wouldn't bitch about Lee Sin if other champs had a kit that had so much shit in it. I like the fact that Lee Sin requires skill, but that's no excuse to make him the single-most viable jungler that also had 100% win rates in multiple tournaments around the world.

That's where the bullshit meter hits max.

SmokingPuffinDec 24, 20141 votes

Lee Sin is better design than classic bruisers. Of course, this is a fairly low bar.

Champions that win based on plays more than stats is a highly desirable thing, and Lee has that in spades. On the other hand, focused champion design is a highly desirable thing too, and Lee is a kitchen sink champion.

Probably the best thing you can say about Lee's design is that he's incredibly popular even though he's terrible in the hands of 90% of players. That means he's fun to play, so congratulations are in order for the design guys.

DrackolusDec 24, 20141 votes

I kinda thought everyone was already on the same side. It's not that Lee is too well-designed, it's that everyone else isn't good enough. I think Riot would prefer that every champ was always viable - I think Caitlyn is a great example. They are rarely game-breakingly powerful in the meta, but they are so good at so many strategies that they will always work with whatever the strategic meta is. Unfortunately, it's probably unrealistic for that many champions to be like that. But almost every champ is good at SOMETHING, even if what they're good at is a strategy that isn't as effective this season. For example, Darius is a great early game bully who can dominate most of the time top lane, but his lategame is somewhat weak, since he has no mobility and requires large amounts of defensive stats in order to be in teamfights, preventing him from building enough ad to directly carry - as well as having only mediocre pushing power, also due to his lack of mobility. This makes him especially weak in this season, where the biggest goals are objectives, which tend to be won by teamfights, or vice versa. But if the meta was all about early game dominance - like it was in S2 - he becomes a very useful champion.

I think the blind man just SEEMS op because it seems logical to assume that since he's ALWAYS been good, it must be because he is so freaking powerful. Really, it's more because he's never bad than because he's always good.

KingsgraveDec 24, 20141 votes

How is Pantheon a stat check? Xin Zhao gets free armor pen, healing, AS and Armor/MR. Pantheon doesn't have any free stats.

Pantheon was never designed as a bruiser anyway, he was supposed to be an Assassin AD Caster. He only ends up being a bruiser because he falls off.

RebonackDec 24, 20141 votes

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How is Pantheon a stat check? Xin Zhao gets free armor pen, healing, AS and Armor/MR. Pantheon doesn't have any free stats.

Pantheon was never designed as a bruiser anyway, he was supposed to be an Assassin AD Caster. He only ends up being a bruiser because he falls off.

It's less that he falls off and more than he has no means to get out of combat after he goes in. Panth has solid base damage and crazy AD scaling, but once he jumps into a fight he's committed. That, and his damage doesn't go off quickly enough to instant-burst someone. If Panth were to be a true assassin, he would need some way to break focus on himself.

Easiest way to do that? Reduce the range on his jump and remove the channel time. That would allow him to break focus on himself in combat for a second or two and reposition.

DJ SiamakDec 24, 20141 votes

{quoted}

How is Pantheon a stat check? Xin Zhao gets free armor pen, healing, AS and Armor/MR. Pantheon doesn't have any free stats.

Pantheon was never designed as a bruiser anyway, he was supposed to be an Assassin AD Caster. He only ends up being a bruiser because he falls off.

Pantheon is a stat check because the burden of playing better to win a fight is not on a Pantheon in a given duel.

Unless you pull out some crazy shit, that Pantheon is gonna win if he would've won, and he's gonna lose if he would've lost.