Hiding abilities within brush that should logically reveal your location

Metal Janna··7 votes·517 views

Dear Riot: Was reading https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/N49U0u4b-psa-attacking-whille-in-bush-reveals-you-and-everybody-in-the-bush and someone brought up Nunu's channel-ult-inside-bush technique. Personally I think it's ridiculous that you can hide a technique that's larger than the bush inside the bush. Imagine you're laning against a support Sion and not doing well. You move back and camp the tower to stay safe and get your farm, when suddenly you take half of your health in damage and get stunned, followed by a slow and some more damage you can't dodge because, again, you're stunned. You are easily run down and clobbered to death under the tower because Sion is a tank and can therefore towerdive. How were you supposed to counterplay that? Sion's Q is supposed to be a melee ability, so why can he cast it much farther than his melee range from the safety and invisiblity of the bush?

To further the goal of making attacks from bushes both more fair and more intuitive, I have three suggestions: 1:Make projectile attacks flying out of (or into) the bush reveal their caster (or their target, in the latter case). 2:Make channeled attack zones visible even if their caster is not. 3:Regardless of whether or not you decide to implement the first two, give us some clarification about exactly which abilities will reveal you if cast inside a bush!

17 Comments

Kitten of Evil6 votes

Nunu's ult would be borderline useless if he couldn't hide it in brush.

Metal Janna3 votes

Then Nunu's ult needs changed. If an ability requires cheese to be used properly, then the ability is poorly designed.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

That may be true. He's one of the oldest designs, so a VGU probably wouldn't go amiss.

Nik Nikerson5 votes

How were you supposed to counterplay that?

Don't walk near the bush.

Metal Janna1 votes

Yes because not leaving the tower for the rest of the match because you don't know if Sion has backed or not is a good strategy.

Stillname1 votes

First, you said you were just sitting under tower because you weren't doing well. Not sure why you're trying to go somewhere. Just don't walk near the bush.

Second, the lane is large, and you don't actually have to walk within range of his Q. Just don't walk near the bush.

Nik Nikerson3 votes

First, you said you were just sitting under tower because you weren't doing well. Not sure why you're trying to go somewhere. Just don't walk near the bush.

Second, the lane is large, and you don't actually have to walk within range of his Q. Just don't walk near the bush.

Metal Janna1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nik Nikerson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NFQ1JPrd,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-12-07T21:29:00.900+0000)

Second, the lane is large, and you don't actually have to walk within range of his Q. Just don't walk near the bush. Yeah, it's huge. For reference this is the size of your ward radius.

Lord of Math3 votes

This is unnecessary. Sion can be counterplayed like mad. Either punish him for being in bush with an aoe, looking at you Lux , Soraka , Brand. Or any adc with any aoe Lucian , Graves , Corki , Caitlyn , Twitch , etc. Bait him into using his q, the cooldown is long enough that if you make him use it by walking towards the bush, then changing direction nearly instantly, then you will have dodged it and forced him to waste it, or you caused him to not knock you up for more damage. Stay away from the bushes for a while and try not to be predictable. Lucian will shit all over Sion dreams

redniwediS2 votes

I think it depends on the ability. Sion is one of those cases where I think it is completely fine. His only form of mobility is his ultimate, and his Q is a channel that has to be aimed. Immobile champions have always tried to abuse bushes to make their jobs easier, and it's something that should probably be maintained. They can already be thwarted by a well placed ward and a respect for bushes you don't have vision of.

Something like Pantheon ult? Maybe a change is needed. If you can't teleport into a fog covered bush without the enemy knowing maybe you shouldn't be able to man drop into one either.

Metal Janna2 votes

Sion's Q has to be aimed, yes, but you're supposed to be able to dodge it. You can't dodge it if you can't see it coming. As for wards, yes they would help... for 5 seconds if Sion has a sweeper or 60 seconds if he does not. You can't re-ward the bush because that would require walking up to it, which would be suicide. If you're being forced under tower by their lane pressure you're not getting very much CS, and if either lane partner leaves to go buy a sightstone the other one will get towerdived.

redniwediS3 votes

Ever since season 1 people have been face checking bushes and getting punished for it. You have to respect lack of vision, and that won't change regardless of this change of yours. Sion can just sit in the bush and use Q after you move up to ward it, limiting your time to dodge. He could just ult out of the bush and start channeling Q when you're recovering from the knockup.

Metal Janna1 votes

Making his Q chargeup visible would force him to wait half a second more to start charging it up, so that you can't dodge it easily. That would in turn make it slightly more possible to ward the bush he's in without getting knocked up. As it is he can start charging it the moment he sees you approaching the bush, meaning you'll be lucky if you even get to drop your ward before you get knocked up and killed.

Ralanr3 votes

What compensation buff are you going to give because you’d be taking a lot of power from Sion by doing this.

Metal Janna1 votes

Attack speed, attack damage, hp... What does it matter specifically which stat gets buffed to compensate? Actually his shield seems rather useless. Why not buff it?

Ralanr3 votes

It does matter because you’re chunking a huge reliability factor from him.

Metal Janna1 votes

You're not hearing what i'm saying, so this conversation is over.

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