Xerath ulti HAS to "zoom out" like the Jhin one.

Macilento·Jan 13, 2016·93 votes·3,524 views

Pretty much as title says. Both of the ultis are similar, but Jhin get this sweet zoom out to see Larger portion of the rift.

Xarath need to be upgraded then if we want to be fair.

46 Comments

WyrmbladeJan 13, 201629 votes

Since it's so huge zooming it out might actually make it way harder to aim since you'll be too high up to properly see who you're trying to snipe.

junglerboy16Jan 13, 20161 votes

Pretty much this^

It works for Jhin (assuming that it actually zooms out and wasn't for flare in the reveal) because his are fast moving linear skill shots, not tiny little dots on the ground that give a half second warning before impact.

AzteryzJan 13, 20168 votes

as well as huge frame rate issues

Forn ala cremeJan 13, 20167 votes

Unless you are running on a potato I seriously doubt that is the case

AzteryzJan 13, 20161 votes

they need to make sure what they add in the game can be handeled by all audiences with what tech they might have whether it be a gaming computer or a pretty basic setup and yes depending on what is on the screen if they do this there will be frame rate issues since a lot can happen in that huge zoom out

JariJan 13, 20161 votes

You can't make it for everyone. Sorry. If they did, this game would be the shittiest game in terms of looks because there are STILL people who use Windows 98 like it's their savior.

AzteryzJan 13, 20161 votes

what riot gypsylord basically proves what i said

Sadly, not with the current tech.

Zoom outs can only go so far before things start looking bad, FPS goes down, and possible buggy stuff gets more prevalent. Jhin's R only zooms out to a 3500 range cone. Xerath's would have to zoom out to a 5600 range circle. That's a huge difference in amount of visible area.

Additionally, from a mechanics standpoint: while it would be nice for Xerath to be able to see himself while ulting (so he doesn't get killed) it's not actually important for him to see the area between where he is and where he's aiming since his shots can't be blocked. Jhin's R stops on first champion hit so being able to see the whole area is needed for the spell to feel right.

JariJan 13, 20161 votes

I missed my disclaimer here, apologies.

I don't think zooming out with the ult would help Xerath because everything would be much smaller for him, since it effects a small spot and Jhin is a line. I merely stated what I stated about making the game so all audiences can play it. It isn't physically possible without pushing a lot of thing out the window. There are people still using old as hell computers and likely can't play the game currently. Did Riot fail? No, because you can't make a game work for every computer's power. They tried to, but it can't stop it and I still every now and again run into the 10 minute load from a toaster.

AzteryzJan 14, 20161 votes

ahh okay i can see where i was confused makes sense now

JariJan 14, 20161 votes

Ya. I was mostly just refering to the, "For all audience" comment, since it's technically impossible to make something for everyone without killing how the game looks.

LeBlanc JameśJan 13, 20161 votes

I lol'ed

SinlaireJan 14, 20161 votes

I run and X300 Hamtaro thank you very much.

ChaoticPineconeJan 14, 20162 votes

i run on the cheapest alienware alpha and i get frame drops every once in a while on ARAM

Forn ala cremeJan 14, 20161 votes

I used to run LoL on an iGPU and did not get frame drops on medium settings...

Meep ManJan 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Since it's so huge zooming it out might actually make it way harder to aim since you'll be too high up to properly see who you're trying to snipe.

A way to counteract this could make it to where the camera zooms out to about 40% of the normal range and then the camera temporarily (during the ultimate) follows your cursor. Still not sure it's needed though.

Nature DruidJan 14, 20161 votes

i agreed with the post until i read this comment

MofoJamesJan 13, 201616 votes

Jhin's ult extends his range in a cone. Therefore, by putting Jhin in the corner of the screen, the camera can show his ult's full range without zooming out too much. By contrast, Xer's ult extends his range in a circle. Therefore, in order to show his full range, the camera would have to remain centered on him and then zoom WAY the fuck out. Considering that Xer's ult has a pretty small collision radius, this would make it much harder to effectively target enemies. It's not that unlocking your camera and tracking targets on the fly isn't tricky; it's just that the laws of perspective don't allow for a better solution than the current one.

Edit: Re: "Xarath need to be upgraded then if we want to be fair." Although they share long range, Xer and Jhin occupy radically different roles. Therefore, they aren't really in competition in the sense that their skills need to be "fair" relative to one another.

Sypher The PoroJan 13, 20164 votes

Jhin's ultimate is only in one direction so his aiming is actually pretty restricted. Xerath, on the other hand, has this massive circle he can hit anywhere in.

Kat GoddessJan 13, 20163 votes

Reference this Riot comment on similar thread: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/wu5LK1IO-can-we-make-xeraths-ult-zoom-out-like-jhins?comment=0011

IxtaliKingJan 13, 20161 votes

It's a shame I did a poor job of explaining what I meant initially, though I thought most people seemed to get the idea I was trying to put forward from the up votes :(.

DrCyanideJan 13, 20162 votes

Does Jhins ult even zoom out? Or was that purely for showing the range of it?

Keep in mind too that Xerath would need to zoom out twice as far, since he has to see on both sides.

MrBuffingtonJan 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Does Jhins ult even zoom out? Or was that purely for showing the range of it?

I was thinking the same thing

Keep in mind too that Xerath would need to zoom out twice as far, since he has to see on both sides.

Good point, plus the usability of the ult would drop as well, since you'd have to be ridiculously precise with your mouse to aim his ult. It's probably actually a Xerath nerf

AzteryzJan 13, 20161 votes

it does indeed zoom out

TheI3igDaddyJan 13, 20162 votes

Xerath's ult should also look like it actually deals damage. It should either look like his old W or the impacts should shake the screen like meteorites.

Mistress MadokaJan 13, 20162 votes

Or at least they should have a bigger "Boom"

ModKnightsKemplarJan 13, 20162 votes

I agreed with you until 5 minutes ago.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/wu5LK1IO-can-we-make-xeraths-ult-zoom-out-like-jhins

Gypsylord makes several good points. I think Xerath ought to stay the way he is, probably. It doesn't mean his ult feels great, but this particular solution isn't possible or good for Xerath, actually.

CIit YeastwoodJan 14, 20161 votes

He makes several good points if you don't know anything about how the game works when you zoom out....

Literally grab any camera tool and view a replay. You can zoom as far out as you want. You'll notice (if you don't play on a potatoe) that your FPS won't dip below 60.

You will notice:

Minions and other characters do not animate when in the fog of war. This is intentional.
You might see off the map (such bug much wow)
Everything is smaller which is why you only zoom out to a certain point.

Gypsy, while I love the man.. very intelligent and I'd bang if he was willing, makes frankly AWFUL points. It's yet another "We don't want to do it so here is a simple to come up with excuse that people will eat up."

The point of the other thread asked to zoom out just AS FAR as Jhin's does. I believe Jhin's only goes out 3500 units. that is more than enough to get those close range snipes, and close enough to not impact FPS or show bugs.

ModKnightsKemplarJan 14, 20161 votes

Hmm... I am not sure replay is a great way to measure fps in game. A playback tool doesn't have to generate those images while communicating with a game server. It's completely different. I'm gonna go ahead and trust Gypsy on that, since I know his credentials, and have no idea about yours.

And I find his other point compelling. It isn't as necessary for Xerath, since he doesn't have to know what is between him and his target. That's a valid point, if I ever heard one.

DrCyanideJan 14, 20161 votes

As someone who has played a game with Jhin on the PBE, and who isn't running on a potato, I can tell you that you're wrong and Riot is right. Even with Jhins range, things got laggy.

The thing you're forgetting is that the replay tool can buffer more info. It knows where everyone is on the map at every instant. Your client, while playing the game, does not. If it did you'd see all sorts of hacks for seeing everyone on the map all the time and there would be nothing Riot could do about it. So what happens is that Riot sends you info on what the other players are doing as you need it. Looks like four vision granting rounds fired over a larger field of view than normal requires more network traffic. And before you tell me to upgrade my ISP, I'm on Google Fiber, I've got nothing better to get without starting a business.

DrugothJan 14, 20162 votes

This has already been addressed by a red in another thread. Xerath will not be receiving the same treatment because his ults area is approximately 2x larger and it would cause serious garbage/framerate issues.

Also if it were to zoom out to the full range you wouldn't even be able to SEE anything. Everything would just look ant sized.

TL;DR: Don't be crap at Xerath, get good. Stop complaining.

CIit YeastwoodJan 14, 20161 votes

There would be no performance issues because no one is asking to zoom out the entire distance of the ult.

There wouldn't be performance issues even if you did zoom out that far unless you play on a potato.

It doesn't cause serious issues. If you don't believe me download any camera tool and zoom out 4000 units in a replay. Much issues, such serious.

TL;DR: You're a moron that eats up anything the hive mind sends your way and are incapable of free thinking.

DrugothJan 14, 20161 votes

How about the fact that Xeraths ult is a ground targeted ability, meaning that there is no actual use to zooming out when all you NEED to see is his actual target.

It's people like you that make the community worse. You'll find literally anything you can to complain about just for the sake of complaining. Riot makes a good video game, if you don't like their decisions then you don't have to play it. Demanding that Riot HAS to do anything other than what they intend to do is absurd. You're not on their payroll therefore have no room to make such demands. Call me a moron or a hive-mind (however the hell THAT is a relevant insult to the topic) or whatever you wish, it won't change the fact that no one likes you. Which is probably why you have nothing better to do than complain about the way a company runs their video game.

Good day, sir.

CIit YeastwoodJan 14, 20162 votes

Can I steal an already popular thread too mommy?

L RayquazaJan 14, 20162 votes

The main reason Jhin's ult is like that is because it is a linear skillshot that stops on the first enemy champ, that way you aren't just looking at the end and wondering where your shots go, Xerath's ult is a large range AOE projectile that doesn't have unit collision

Posui GartJan 14, 20162 votes

Good luck hitting something with 3 pixels wide skillshot. Might as well try to hit someone by aiming on the minimap. And if we want to be completely fair: -If Xerath or his allies hit someone-they are revealed for 4 seconds if they are in ult area -Xerath's charges slow enemies briefly and deal more damage to low hp enemies -If he cancels his ultimate with unused shots-cooldown is reduced by 10% for each -Now gets 4 shots, fourth one deals double damage Now as for me, the only thing he should get from Jhin's ult is a music playing during the ultimate(something fitting the theme of "OMG WE ANGERED THE DEMIGOD, NOW HE SHOWED HIS TRUE FORM AND MAGIC WILL RAIN FROM THE SKY, NOWHERE IS SAFE")+new on-hit sound effect, not just same effect for his Q, W and R

dunkeroniJan 14, 20162 votes

Nope nope nope. You clearly don't play Xerath at all, and you don't understand how his ult works. You're just copying the idea from another thread (which has already be refuted by a Rioter) so you can get upvotes. Shame on you. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Joe DreddJan 13, 20161 votes

Xerath can aim in more than one direction

okinoJan 13, 20161 votes

that would suck. the range would be too big, the clarity would pretty much suck.

PickleBabahJan 13, 20161 votes

I actually disagree with this because he doesn't hit in the entire range, only a small portion. The hitbox in comparison to the total range would be totally messed up, and what if you want to ult like 500 units in front of you? You would end up seeing an unneeded amount of space, and aiming would be harder as an inch on your mouse pad would move your cursor like 600 units.

BUDDHISTINKJan 14, 20161 votes

Untrue. It doesnt have to do jack diddly.

TotalisJan 14, 20161 votes

but that's the only somewhat unique part of Jhin's kit! what kinda monster would take that away too?

Solidair3Jan 14, 20161 votes

the area of the map xerath would need to see would be WAY too zoomed out, and then performance issues... that just can't happen, sadly.

rtbf206105905Jan 14, 20161 votes

Jhin needs to see his bullet path and Xerath doesn't. His shots come from above and can't be blocked by anyone.

Also Gyspylord said they can't do it because it would increase Xerath's zoom to 5500 range or so and it would cause visual lag problems.

MacilentoJan 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Jhin needs to see his bullet path and Xerath doesn't. His shots come from above and can't be blocked by anyone.

Also Gyspylord said they can't do it because it would increase Xerath's zoom to 5500 range or so and it would cause visual lag problems.

I think some Zoom out would still be useful, to better see your position related to where you are hitting

rtbf206105905Jan 14, 20163 votes

No. It wouldn't. The shots hit directly where you aim them at, you don't need any extra vision and it'd be harder to aim from higher up aswell.

Only exception is when you are attacking someone very close to you but the default camera vision covers that anyway.