Okay what is this new relic shield adc bs I am seeing

kargish·Jan 6, 2018·19 votes·5,748 views

As if season 7 wasn't bad enough, now ADCs are running around with relic shield with a enchancer support, so they constantly got 33% of their health shielded. Why is this a thing? ADC are constantly getting more and more items and abilities to help them survive, why would anyone pick an assassin over another support to make your ADC even more like a tank.

These days ranged carries are more like ranged juggernauts.

EDIT: This is not about relic shields being a new thing, it's the new strategy of ADCs stacking shields and being as strong as a

68 Comments

ResterJan 6, 201813 votes

Id rather just like Relic Shield to be Melee Only. (BUT MUH THRESH) Thresh will just have to get used to coin.

AhristocatsJan 6, 201812 votes

coin is worse statistically on thresh

if thresh is forced to take coin he will need a base hp buff

IBgarboJan 6, 20182 votes

Coin thresh is absolute garbage. Don't take it.

ModKnightsKemplarJan 6, 201810 votes

I'm not opposed to that. It would make playing Thresh better, imo, especially at low elo where people don't let supports use relic shield even with the execute. Too difficult for low skill players to manage.

AhristocatsJan 6, 20181 votes

unrelated to thread but what's an advisor's job?

ModKnightsKemplarJan 6, 20186 votes

The job specific to advisors is to answer questions on the Boards. I spend time perusing the recent topics and try to make sure there aren't any minor questions that go unnoticed. The pretty colors ideally help newbs know that I can be trusted, so if I give them a straight answer, they can be pretty sure it's correct.

I'm still involved with moderation, also, so you may see me around doing the same sorts of things I did as a Warden, too.

KlydeFrogJan 6, 20181 votes

Umm yah your right having a passive gold gain that gains you more gold and a better active is useless somehow.

It Hertz When IPJan 7, 20183 votes

He didn't say it's worthless, he said it's worse. Which it is. Early laning, Thresh needs the health more than he does mana regen.

AzadetheJan 7, 20181 votes

Coin tiering gives health regen..... and gives earlier cdr, and Thresh has a barrier/lantern to pick up souls/coins.... It also golds quicker than a Relic unless the ADC is co-relic, creating a back and forth feed each other gold system. But then again, a Relic adc with a Coin support can double dip for even more gold, because every large minion the adc kills will have a 50% chance of proccing a gold coin too. And ofc, Coin also rewards gold on all Takedowns, which a Relic does not do.

CytheGuyJan 6, 20183 votes

What if we made Thresh a melee character that has a lot of range?I mean nothing leaves him when he aa's people, he just throws a chain scythe at you, which he is holding the entire time.

AhristocatsJan 6, 20183 votes

do that

and i would get challenger with grasp knight's vow thresh and bandit giving 10 gold instead of 3

SpoofghoulJan 6, 20181 votes

Thresh item 3085 item 3748 item 3109

uh yea

RIP Tahm KenchJan 7, 20183 votes

If he was considered melee, he wouldn't be able to get hurricane.

SpoofghoulJan 7, 20181 votes

good point but,

runaans isn't ranged only, it just attacks targets near your target

if a melee had 500 range it would simply still work

BakedLotionJan 7, 20181 votes

he wouldn't be able to buy it

MysteryX95Jan 11, 20181 votes

Let me stop you right there https://i.imgur.com/eS6fjJg.png

CytheGuyJan 7, 20183 votes

Bandit is no longer a mastery.

RIP Tahm KenchJan 7, 20184 votes

Fake news: Bandit still exists, it got frankensteined onto every support item as a passive.

AzadetheJan 7, 20181 votes

would allow him to use Hydra instead of Runaan's. How would you like a long range Hydra proc on him? In addition to the damage he does from a reserved E, which can almost 1 hit someone?

Sexy Jack RabbitJan 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Id rather just like Relic Shield to be Melee Only. (BUT MUH THRESH) Thresh will just have to get used to coin.

Considering it's interaction with ranged champions already I dunno why Riot hasn't done that sooner

ThefrostyvikingJan 6, 201810 votes

I mean, relic shield on a marksman is about the best item you can get first, you help your support get gold for more items and power while you yourself end up weaker early but later you can stack the upgraded shield with overheal and BT shield if you are lucky.

So you´ll end up having a double or triple shield by yourself and support with more gold than usual, that second one is big.

In this preseason in which burst has been so high the marksman are literally looking everywhere for added defenses so it shouldn't have been a surprise that they´d turn to relic shield which offers just that.

I mean, you get this great midgame protection, more gold to your support and all you lose is a Doran's blade, which is pretty dang useless post level 4-5 anyway.

All in exchange for a slightly weaker laning and fighting ability.

Are we really going to act surprised about this happening? Just like how we acted when steraks gage was added to the game and marksmen everywhere naturally started building it because it was a low CD 1000-2000 health shield with a decent build path?

Only reason i can think off that people build it is because they either want a better early game or because it feels kinda awkward to use it when you are used to dorans blade.

Those are about the only reasons, that is how superior Relic shield is overall.

kargishJan 6, 20184 votes

But it's the concept that this keeps happening. Why are ADCs getting more and more and more items to power them up, it has never ever been this overloaded. Back in the day ADCs had 3 items to be their defensive choice ( item 3026 item 3102 item 3072 ), and was also in a time when lethality didn't exist. This why positioning as an ADC has become near obsolete, sure it still seperates the good and bad players, but so many times it doesn't matter as you'll automatically win against any assassin because these glorious items are here to help you.

item 3109 item 3097 item 3072 item 3812 item 3026 item 3190 item 2420 item 3140 item 3047

It used to be supports that were your savior, but now it's just the items that do half the work. I don't mind that ADCs have defensive options, but with all these shields and damage reduction items going around assassins have to deal twice their hp bar to actually kill them.

ThefrostyvikingJan 6, 20186 votes

item 3026 ****was a item everyone could build back in the day, as was banshee's veil, and BT was OP.

GA is now the most commonly used along with mercurial schimitar, might be a bit more popular due to the armor on the item, Banshee is AP exclusive in terms of good stats and BT isn't strong enough by itself. ' And positioning is still a thing, i have never gotten away without it while playing anyway.

Only when going like 10,1,12 is it possible to sometimes be lazy, but then then it´s pretty usual to get CC'ed to death if careless.

It used to be supports that were your savior, but now it's just the items that do half the work. I don't mind that ADCs have defensive options, but with all these shields and damage reduction items going around assassins have to deal twice their hp bar to actually kill them.

Knights vow is a lategame tank item? Doesn't really affect anyone much at the present, but by then the lategame assassins are strong enough to wreck havoc pretty quickly if any opening appears. Eve for instance deals like 1500+ damage with her ultimate alone if it hits.

Relic shield was probably unintended by riot but just like with steraks no one should be surprised x)

BT isnt enough by itself, unless very fed, same with DD except on a few champs like graves or Draven.-.....not that graves is a marksman anymore.

GA lost defensive stats compared to before in exchange for AD, so easier to kill.

locket is a mainly mid/lategame support item as well-

Stasis is available for everyone and is one time use.

Ninja tabi is for everyone and used by everyone when dealing with either a lethality user or by melee against marksmen when CC isn't too abundant.

Now do keep in mind that all marksmen at the present except MF and Ezreal are reserving 3 item slots for crit, one for armor pen and one for boots.

So that leaves one slot open for a true defensive item,boots are more supplementary on most except when dealing with marksmen or lethality.

Only time a marksman doesn't get armor pen is when you don't have a good enough tank or frontline, and at that point you´ll most likely have more damage anyway.

......

That's about it.

SpaghettiVaseJan 7, 20183 votes

I'm assuming you meant to put item 3026 and not item 3193 as Gargoyle Stoneplate is relatively new and has never been built by a non-tank.

ThefrostyvikingJan 7, 20181 votes

ops, thanks for the heads up x)

AzadetheJan 7, 20181 votes

For what it's worth.... I've never had a relic duo support/adc out gold an Ancient Coin. It just doesn't happen. It CAN happen with a Spellthief, if used on the wrong support vs the wrong counter team (A nami vs a Brand or Vel koz support, or the same with a Sona, because they can't get in range to poke enough to use a spellthief)

It's more or less strictly for adc/support pairings who are 1) bad last hit farmers 2) lack on board heals to sustain the lane and 3) are playing champs who they feel must have a relic shield.

#2 is the big thing. Getting twice as many 15+ 2% missing HP heals in the same period of time is pretty broken when playing something like Alistar, Blitz, or Thresh, especially if the adc is starting with an extra 75 HP. It basically means twice per wave, the adc and support get the opportunity to near full HP recover vs any damage taken, and without using Mana to do it, and it heals better than on hit or life steal healing too.

AhristocatsJan 6, 20188 votes

enchanter support?

bot lane is alistar vs leona every game

they take relic shield because warlord sustain got olafed on minions which was a good thing

kargishJan 6, 20186 votes

You don't get the point then, item 3302 turns into item 3097 and gets you a shield. This shield is as strong as a item 3072 , so combined they shield you for 700. This item grants you the shield, 175 hp, the ability to share gold and lane sustain for 850g. My item 1037 grants me 25 AD for a higher price. Then they get a Janna with them, to give them 210 + 70% AP extra in shield. Additionally this support has Aery too, so that's another 80 + 25% AP in shield. Just in shields you gain a total of 3120 gold worth in stats. We haven't even included the additional bullshit ADCs can get ( Chogath : item 3109 item 3190 / Karma )

AhristocatsJan 6, 20183 votes

i totally got the point, and it doesn't matter

the shield depends on max hp, you can list all the shields you want, the shield from targon would not be a problem if it didn't give sustain at all

anyway the item needs to be melee only

kargishJan 6, 20185 votes

But the shield does not scale with max health? It's flat and is actually WAY stronger than a Bloodthirster.

Targon's Brace https://i.gyazo.com/e5d0a86178904ef1607b2feb4300e628.png

Bloodthirster https://i.gyazo.com/bd2d65fa779c831b8bd6557c16a9f34c.png

TengenToppaGnarJan 6, 20186 votes

.... Its not new, it was around when Ardent Censor was the "Win or Lose" item. It just fell out of favor with the rune overhaul and the ardent nerfs.... until now..

kargishJan 6, 20184 votes

At that time it was because ADCs wanted to help their supports rush item 3504 , now it's for a different reason and shields are more dominant than ever.

KlydeFrogJan 6, 20184 votes

But again it's not new it's old school ever since relic shield was introduced people were doing it .....not sure why people think it's new and people started doing it once again when they added the shield to relic shield

Daddy AntsJan 6, 20184 votes

{quoted}

At that time it was because ADCs wanted to help their supports rush , now it's for a different reason and shields are more dominant than ever.

Because damage is out of control.

AhristocatsJan 6, 20182 votes

because warlord sustain got nerfed

AzadetheJan 7, 20181 votes

Warlord's sustain is back in Fleet footwork, and it's more reliable.

AhristocatsJan 7, 20182 votes

what do you mean it's more reliable?

nothing changed

except it heals 40% less on minions

AzadetheJan 7, 20181 votes

They added Crit Multiplier to its heal, and doubled its scaling in 7.24

FLEET FOOTWORK: Your next basic attack Heal power restores 3 - 60 (based on level) (+ 30% bonus AD) (+ 40% AP) health and grants 30% bonus Movement speed icon movement speed for 1 second. The healing is only 60% effective versus minions.

If the attack that activates FLEET FOOTWORK is a Critical strike icon critical strike, the healing is increased by 40% (+ Infinity Edge item 20%).

It used to be .1 AD and .2 AP, and the Crit part wasn't on it.

Its current mods are broken down here

The increased healing when critically striking is set at 4.2 - 84 (based on level) (+ 42% bonus AD) (+ 56% AP). With Infinity Edge item Infinity Edge, this is increased to 4.8 - 96 (based on level) (+ 48% bonus AD) (+ 64% AP).

In other words, a Jinx with 272 AD (average built) = 175.2 heal

Warlord's did this:

No Base heal

but....

When no Critical: 108.14 Critical: 218.64

In other words, the new Fleet footwork is almost identical in average heals to Warlord's and offers the same exact move speed bonus. Except..... it's on the same page as Coup de gras, Triumph, serious attack speed bonuses, and you can add more healing or damage through a secondary rune page, like Burn, or add more move speed chase by going Inspiration for faster boots and potentially Approach Velocity (this is an insane option on Jinx or Ashe, which have on board slows, and Ashe's subsequent hits count as Crits, which can self charge Fleet footwork).

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Fleet_Footwork

Also worth nothing: Fleet footwork now is a Warlord's that has AP scaling too, so Hybrids like Kog Ma or Corki can get even higher heals, or Ezreal if he wanted to load on a Morellonomicon or Lich bane build.

AhristocatsJan 7, 20182 votes

old warlord could crit too

nothing changed except it's shitter in laning phase

KrombopulosJan 22, 20181 votes

It also gives +30% movespeed for 1.0 second instead of 0.75 seconds now.

KrombopulosJan 22, 20181 votes

@I Am Rubick Sama why would it be shitter now if you literally say "nothing changed"? that's stupid

KlydeFrogJan 6, 20183 votes

Ikr people do something other people were doing and it's somehow new lol. I mean I was doing malz supp right when they first reworked him lol I saw what he could do and mind you nothing changed on him ....I was called a troll and someone in lcs does it and it's cool to do

DontTouchMyBallJan 6, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Ikr people do something other people were doing and it's somehow new lol. I mean I was doing malz supp right when they first reworked him lol I saw what he could do and mind you nothing changed on him ....I was called a troll and someone in lcs does it and it's cool to do

^ THIS I am waiting for LCS to play Orianna support so I won't be called a troll every now and then ...but we all know that might never happen because I'm miles away from any of those noobs (Kappa) [slayer-jinx-catface]

KlydeFrogJan 6, 20182 votes

I've seen it ori supp as I've seen ziggs supp . Ori Mana cost to much to be of any use fullness ziggs works . Cause of the mines and the satchel charge .

TengenToppaGnarJan 6, 20182 votes

Ori might work now though with that Mana band giving her the occasional free ability.

LordGeovanniJan 7, 20181 votes

Dont despair i played Nautilus support in season 4 and 5. actually do despair because got gutted. actually dont despair riot only does that to tanks and fighters.

IBgarboJan 6, 20184 votes

Yeah haven't seen an enchanter support really in a while, and the ones i do see i kill over and over again. People take it mostly for the health and sustain, if they're in a hard matchup like draven or something. Or if they wanna give support gold to rush ardent, which hasn't been done in a while since ardent was nerfed.

KlydeFrogJan 6, 20184 votes

It's not new it's a old thing people used to do when relic shield first came out

AirKingNeoJan 6, 20184 votes

Why are you blaming ADCs? It's supports who have been super broken enough to be abused by other classes.

sad þoyJan 6, 20183 votes

Uh, relic shield was a thing during S7 when item 3504 dominated. ADC would take relic shield to help the support get more gold, FASTER! Then the support would likely get in 5/10 minutes.