Just nerf her

Zephyr77·Jan 30, 2017·49 votes·3,613 views

So is the skin hype over yet ? Good.

Let us talk about our beloved lvl 3 insta fister - Vi.

I am quite amazed nobody is even bothering to suggest toning her down. Believe it or not- majority of the game aint LCS, some of use stuggle on daily basis with other champs. Champs like Vi.

In general, single target nukers seem quite popular in current Solo Q jung. The reason i am not suggesting Nocturne nerf is - harder way to go in, way squisher early and actually requires proper snowball.

Vi is just...how to put it- too healthy for aggression she can over. Imagine a Darius with two ways to come near you, that is her right now.

I dont mind her kit overall - i mind her base spell damage. Too fast clear combined with colossus mastery, makes her ganks unbearable.

People used to play her in more defiant manner before - she was dependant on good snowball, and usually lvl 6 for high quality ganks. With current changes to jungle and masteries - she provides too much harass.

48 Comments

dominusxJan 30, 201723 votes

Vi has never been complained about. Nerf the retarded masteries or flat out remove them boo most champs become balanced. the ones who rely on masteries to do well can be buffed.Ofc Vi gonna nuke your ass with tld. Ofc vi wont die by building dmg when she has a braindead mastery giving her double shield. Ofc she will kill you since you can get 1 dmg item and one offencive bruiser item and kill everyone. the game needs to overall nerf the dmg and remove masteries,masteries are dogshit dunno why they changed the old tree i still remember fiddling with my masteries a few years back playing different champions. the little mastery that gave you 15% more warding range? made insec easier to pull off per example. Now it's like Do you want to oneshot people? go tld. do you want to sustain like a retard? go bloodlust do you wanna die slower? go coc. Diversity my ass.

Zephyr77Jan 30, 20172 votes

Other masteries are quite decent. On the other hand introduction of colossus allowed bruisers, especially in jungle to be too healthy but keep their damage and aggression.

Asayake 5150glowJan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Other masteries are quite decent. On the other hand introduction of colossus allowed bruisers, especially in jungle to be too healthy but keep their damage and aggression.

Warlords is bs btw

Troy242621Jan 30, 201712 votes

{quoted}

Vi has never been complained about. Nerf the retarded masteries or flat out remove them boo most champs become balanced. the ones who rely on masteries to do well can be buffed.Ofc Vi gonna nuke your ass with tld. Ofc vi wont die by building dmg when she has a braindead mastery giving her double shield. Ofc she will kill you since you can get 1 dmg item and one offencive bruiser item and kill everyone. the game needs to overall nerf the dmg and remove masteries,masteries are dogshit dunno why they changed the old tree i still remember fiddling with my masteries a few years back playing different champions. the little mastery that gave you 15% more warding range? made insec easier to pull off per example. Now it's like Do you want to oneshot people? go tld. do you want to sustain like a retard? go bloodlust do you wanna die slower? go coc. Diversity my ass.

That's patently untrue. Vi has historically caused balance problems.

She combines several design choices that raise an eyebrow. She's a tanky mobile damage dealer with CC that ignores tenacity and a kit so consistent (by virtue of being point-and-click and AA modifiers) that only her Q can be misused.

I'm aware that one can list the strengths of any champion to make them seem overpowered, but I would contend that all of these strengths synergize to create a unique problem; tanky mobile damage dealers with CC always cause issues, and Vi is no exception.

SpecterVonBarenJan 30, 20175 votes

Yet she hasn't been touched in forever and has only recently popped up as an issue. How the hell does that mean she's a balance issue?

Troy242621Jan 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Yet she hasn't been touched in forever and has only recently popped up as an issue. How the hell does that mean she's a balance issue?

I said she has in the past. Her design is such that it is extremely difficult to balance.

SpecterVonBarenJan 31, 20177 votes

No.... That would be something like Yasuo who keeps coming back up even after being nerfed repeatedly. Vi ONLY ever comes back into style because of the meta or new changes to items or masteries and as soon as those change she drops off the face of the earth again. You talk like she has some sort of toxic design (Kalista) or is incredibly overloaded (Ekko) when she's an incredibly simple champion.

LooknookJan 31, 20171 votes

How does simple make a champion more or less difficult to balance? If their simple, as with Vi they can only do one thing. Vi dives the back line with her ult and tries to kill them. Sure she can gank earlier in the game and try to get ahead enough to make it easier but that's what she does. Champions with only one thing they do are hard to balance as they typically are either best in class or not worth playing. Vi doesn't tend to stay in meta's for long periods of time because once she can't do her one thing the best anymore why play her? A champ like Yasou has many different ways to go about a game and different ways to be outplayed and to outplay. That means that even when he isn't best in class there are reasons to pick him. As such he tends to always at least be lurking somewhere in the meta.

NiceTryViJan 31, 20173 votes

I have played Vi for 2 years. When CoC came out was when the complaining started. The issue is not Vi, its masteries. She was pretty much perfectly balanced up until CoC. This is not a champion issue, don't act like it is. Before CoC, if you asked a jungler their thought on Vi, they would probably say something like "Shes not a bad jungler." or "She's ok, but I wouldn't probably pick her." She had a 50-51% winrate since Season 4, and a pickrate at or under 4% as well. Her being so strong right now iss not inherent to the champion, it is CoC being a stupid as hell mastery that made the tanky and bruiser champions oppressive.

røckstãrJan 30, 201714 votes

As soon as I saw the title, I thought about Camille

OelykJan 30, 20171 votes

Spartan11710Jan 31, 20172 votes

Thought it was about Annie or Ahri.

SwarovskoJan 30, 201710 votes

Fucking hate that stupid bitch. Miss Q? Press R and take the kill.

SerophousJan 30, 20178 votes

It's the same thing happening that happened to old Warwick.

Back when the new jungle items came out (skirmishers, etc) people discovered the OPness of the true dmg plus Warwick's ult. People complained about Warwick. Riots response? Nerf the item, and slightly nerf Warwick (increase ult CD).

Warwick didn't change, new items affected his kit too well.

VI hasn't changed, new masteries have affected her too well.

ShadowParkerJan 30, 20172 votes

You literally just contradicted what happened to Sejuani. They nerfed Sejuani, then nerfed the items leaving her feeling terrible. Everyone raged. But you'd rather they nerf the champion then the item?

Make up your mind people.

IcyPepperJan 31, 20172 votes

I don't recall him mentioning Sejuani or suggesting anything whatsoever...

Perhaps you should consider the context of his argument and try to engage with it, instead of setting up an argument he never put forth for the sole purpose of refuting it? You're using a strawman here, you can do better than that. Be better than that.

RevaliJan 30, 20176 votes

no one batted an eye at her till she became meta and now people are crying she's op, she really isn't, the jungle changes really benefit her almost more than anyone else

keep being ignorant to the fact she was like this for.... 4 years, since season 3, even then shes only gotten some buffs probably whereas just to help her clear before

Zephyr77Jan 30, 20172 votes

That is the issue - clear to healthy. it allow her to be..tankier version of lee sin. That is a huge issue. Of course nobody complained earlier - she was a glass cannon like any other, properly depending on snowball.

Now with colossus she has a backup more agression/less risk, at the same time. That, is the unfair part.

RevaliJan 30, 20174 votes

she was never a glass cannon most commonly even then her build usually consisted of items like item 1400 item 3071 (or item 3078 if you want a more damage route) into items like item 3053 item 3742 item 3102

I don't know what vi's you've faced, but courage just adds to her natural buildpath, her clear has always been good in the first place, no reason to whine about that.

Golden Tager XJan 30, 20172 votes

Jax MasterYi XinZhao etc. when sated rageblade hit.

ArakadiaJan 31, 20171 votes

I batted an eye. Q_Q

ModCaptainMårvelousJan 31, 20171 votes

Fun fact: The last buff she got wasn't even overtuning her.

Her last buff made her shield scale down per level rather than scaling a certain points. (So 1-18 has a CD reduction rather than being at levels 5/8/13/etc) It was so miniscule and it did fuckall.

Malicious MetalJan 31, 20176 votes

I don't mind her. She's pretty cool.

AmazoXJan 31, 20173 votes

How was your comment not down voted to Hell.

The EcdysiastJan 31, 20171 votes

There's a large group of people who will upvote Malicious Metal no matter what he says.

AmazoXJan 31, 20172 votes

Haha cringe, I can see that now, My comment got down voted for no reason. Lol.

The EcdysiastJan 31, 20171 votes

Oh no, I downvoted your comment because I disagree with the whining about the only champion who's been consistently balanced around the state of fighter jungle items, to good results.

If people are going to complain, it should be about the complete randomness of Shyvanna's benefit to the team via Ocean drakes instead of Mountain or Infernal.

SALT SHAKER 28Jan 30, 20174 votes

shes broke

anybody who disagrees is either some filthy Vi metaslave freelo abusing scum

ItsOrvalJan 30, 20174 votes

Believe it or not- majority of the game aint LCS, some of use struggle on daily basis with other champs. Champs like Vi.

Its people like you that make this game worse and worse. If League was to focus on balancing the game for just LCS, then this game would be a lot better. A champ that is bad in high elo is good in low elo because low elo players dont know how to counter build/play. In high elo the players actually know how to counter this kind of stuff, thus theyre not going to get nerfed because they are balanced.

In other terms, git gud.

NineTailedMysticJan 31, 20172 votes

Nah, do you want to see the terror that would be a competitively viable Garen or ~~Katarina~~ Xin Zhao? Forgot Kat's update gives her viability.

Angry MonsterJan 31, 20171 votes

faker last week

An Undead bratJan 30, 20173 votes

I made a post about her few days ago using some data and stuff, but I guess bitching like this is more effective to get any upvotes, so I repost it here to comments:

Nothing like personal but according to op.gg she's over 52% winrate with very high pickrate, except REALLY high Elo she's sitting on the very top of the winrate ladder across all elos (Bronze to Plat she's 3rd highest) for a few patches now. (http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/) She is VERY tanky by her nature AND with her item 3078 + full tank build, but still bursts squishies very effectively with no counterplay due to her ult.

AND she still sees no nerfs? Like excuse me, last change to her was made in 6.5? (http://lol.gamepedia.com/Vi_-_the_Piltover_Enforcer#v6)

Is it that she abuses the CotC? And? If the mastery is fine for everyone else, why is Vi not nerfed?

JoeMGJan 30, 20172 votes

She's just one of those "too much damage to be so tanky" champs, partly due to CotC. Along with her simple kit she could go for a slight nerf but she's not the only culprit.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 30, 20172 votes

not sure why you give her armor pen and percent hp damage. she can deal with squishies and tanks

the weeabooJan 30, 20172 votes

She's not even close to being as cancer as Darius lol

SuddenAntagonistJan 30, 20172 votes

Damage in itself is too high for everything. Though I will say that Vi is pretty scary. Was watching Foxdrop just recently, and a Vi came out of the FoW, fisted Draven for about a half second, and he was deleted. Foxdrop's face was priceless, but holy shit.

4th3t0sJan 30, 20172 votes

Anyone noticed all the recent damage problems that have arisen since the change to item 3078 ?

I mean, aside from keystones and the new masteries.

ArakadiaJan 31, 20172 votes

Especially with how reliable her kit is.

The EcdysiastJan 31, 20172 votes

Vi doesn't need nerfs. She's not insanely strong and she never has been. She's just a decent pick all-around for all states of the game. Vi is one of very few perfect champions in this game.

KaiokoJan 30, 20171 votes

Personally I think since CotC just got nerf which is the mastery she pretty much takes 100% of the time; we should wait to see how she performs this patch and then make the decision after that.

I've already seen her and Hecarim become a lot less of a threat recently than the two junglers who got buffs with the Lethality changes.

Unlucky47Jan 31, 20171 votes

Oh people have been suggesting nerfs for a long time now. Not just her but about 1/3 of the jungle roster because the other 2/3 are completely useless. I'm level 6 on vi and I can confirm that the champion is complete bullshit kind of like hecarim is. They can both build 1 or 2 damage items and then go full tank and instant kill anyone that messes with them. Vi's better at deleting squishies imo but them and lee sin are all going to continue to be problems as long as they have the ability to do ridiculous damage without building any.

Nickfer2510Jan 31, 20171 votes

I just don't bother with the Riot balance team anymore and made Vi my first ban pick.

TeemodanegroJan 31, 20171 votes

Every day im stuggling.

MorticianjohnJan 31, 20171 votes

There were many discussions about nerfing her and I believe recently she has seen some nerfs. 1st they nerfed CotC which was her go to mastery and then they gave her ult some additional cooldown time. However, I know she is still stronger than my other jg champs that I use. I just got lvl 7 mastery on Vi. She is the only champ I have gotten that far with. I can't even get S- on other champs (only have lvl 6 on Sona and Karma). So yeah, I think she's slightly over tuned but it's not like no one is talking about it or that they haven't nerfed her recently.

IcyPepperJan 31, 20171 votes

I am quite amazed nobody is even bothering to suggest toning her down.

I really hope by "nobody" you mean just Riot isn't suggesting it.

'Cause believe me, people have been complaining.

RlP K0BEJan 31, 20171 votes

My only question is where were these "Wtf Rito TWO gap closers?!!? Riot how tf can she be so tanky and deal so much damage?!?!" complaints during s6? It's obvious the s7 changes have fucked up the jungle and has only made a handful of champions good.

agbudarJan 31, 20171 votes

she is highest winrate jungler atm.

SlaktarTaskenJan 31, 20171 votes

If damage creep and sustain (endless mana refunds and lifesteal) weren't so retarded in the first place CoC wouldn't need to be so strong, If damage creep and sustain weren't so dumb maybe support items item 3107 <- in particular wouldn't need to be borderline broken.

All stats are relative. Something really should give.

Whatever, let's nerf the only worthwhile resolve keystone into mediocrity like the other two because of fringe abuse cases. Such great balancing, I applaud.