It doesn't matter what changes Riot continues to make as long as this amount of Mobility exists.

HandheldBrandon··1 votes·367 views

No matter what changes unless Riot decided to give everyone a dash or movespeed buff until Riot addresses the problem that is this hyper mobility creep nothing at all will ever get solved. Mobility used to be an incredibly powerful thing but down the line it stopped being this powerful thing and became a common recurrence on newer and newer champs. Older champs however have received no compensation for dealing with these things.

Take for example Nasus. The only reason Nasus can truly deal with this people is because Wither is INCREDIBLY powerful and has an almost non existant cooldown with 30 percent CDR at 40 percent it is at a 6.6 second cooldown and a 5 second duration. It has a 1 second effective cooldown at 40 percent CDR.

Then there is Ashe who is "Queen of Kiting" however that title no longer belongs to her that belongs to Kalista and Ashe is now the bottom of the barrel. Ashe's so called kiting is now largely Useless against most of the current powerhouse rosters because they completely bypass the need to run to ashe and can instead blink/dash to her sometimes multiple times which completely destroys her ability to kite. Then you got another champ like Varus who has 1 ability to truly stave off attackers if he whiffs it or if the enemy has a dash or 2 he is screwed there is nothing he can do except stay way out of range and even then he still cant do anything if they get too him.

Honestly im just tired of all the powerhouse picks being incredibly mobile powerhouses with a mix of excellent damage or great ways to peel for themselves on top of the mobility. Its really starting to wear on me and i honestly miss the days when Mobility was something you fought for like on Ezreal and Corki. Back in the day Ashe was the Queen even above corki and Ezreal and Tristana because she could prevent herself from being completely dove on with careful positioning and excellent mechanics. Now none of that matters with league of 2-3 dashes plus flash.

Ill say it again until this Mobility is addressed and Mobility is treated as an incredibly powerful resource nothing in this game will ever be solved.

7 Comments

Rivini2 votes

As unfortunate as it is, mobility will always be a thing and will be found on nearly all future champions.

Why? The LCS.

Champions with mobility are more fun to watch than ones who don't have it. Using your example, who is more fun to watch: Kalista or Ashe?

Don't expect it to change any time soon.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

IMO it is more fun to watch Ashe because it takes an extremely skilled player to kite as well as Ashe's potential allows it to be. Kalista is just a built in kiter. Would you rather watch a bunch of high schoolers play footbal or a pro nfl team play football? Its the same logic i approve of skilled plays and players using skill to defeat their opponents. Not which champion is the easiest to seem skilled with.

SmokingPuffin2 votes

Season 2 was dominated by mobile champions too (Corki Ezreal Graves). It's just that we had fewer to pick from back then.

I think mobility is a good thing for the game. It means there are more opportunities to make plays and more ways to express skill. I have no interest in going back to Garen versus Chogath top or Lux against Morgana mid.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

I disagree Mobility has become abusive in its current state where if you dont have Mobility you are going to suffer. It forces players to become used to this high mobility and then when put into a situation where Mobility is no longer an option they fall flat on their face. There are other ways to give Mobility without cramming it into everyones Kit.

Thresh is the perfect example he allows someone who is far behind to grab his lantern and then jump into the fight or to pull someone out of a fight its a perfect use of Mobility as a powerful Utility.

Same with Sivir her ultimate grants her whole team asses made of vroom vroom but its apart of her ultimate and it has a long cooldown but its extremely powerful for initiations and escapes a perfect example of how to make Mobility properly powerful for both offensive and defensive purposes without cramming into the kit and adding extra power everywhere else.

Lucian is a good example of how not to do it. When he came out he had decent range/damage/Self utility and the ability to deter chasing with his ult or to extend his range further to kill a fleeing enemy. However he had a dash that removed all slows and had a pretty low cooldown. Fast forward because of all he had he had his range gutted his damage hit and he no longer removes slows with his E. They crammed his kit so full of shit that by itself was already incredibly powerful and then threw on a dash because if they didn't no one would play him because he wouldn't be able to stand up to the ones who do.

Kalista No matter how much i like her that passive is the epitomy of Mobility creep at its worse. It literally removes all the difficulty of kiting and turns it into a click.

The problem is champs who never had mobility now are in the gutter and continually get worse and worse as the days go on.

Know why Ahri was nerfed?

Her ultimate allowed her to escape any situation any time as long as it was up and it was allowing her to chase when most champs would have been forced to give up plus on top of her damage and her charm she was unbearable. So they added a cooldown to her ult so she couldn't use it instantly after jumping.

Most people stopped playing her because of that.

Guess who 3 of the most annoying champs in the game are to deal with right now?

Akali Yasuo Zed

Guess what they all have?

High Mobility High damage Utility

It has literally become such a problem that 90 percent of bans i see are aimed at either champs with incredible mobility or champs with insane burst and it just so happens that the champs with incredible mobility also have insane burst.

Remember why Kassadin was nerfed?

High Mobility High damage Utility

Kassadin was murdering people and then flashing out and there was nothing you could do because of the silence. He would then pop back in and repeat until enemy was dead. So Rito nerfed his Ult and removed his silence. Almost no one atm chooses to play him now even though he still has his dash.

Why?

Same reason as Ahri he is now vulnerable after he uses his dash and people dont want that they want hyper mobility now and when they get it most often than not it becomes highly abusive until Rito shuts it down then people complain and rage when its taken away. Its a problem and its abusive and its honestly ruining the game no matter how flashy or cool it is Rito is going to have to give everyone a dash or blink to compensate for all the dashes and blinks or they are going to have to go the way of Nasus and give blatantly hyper powered Utility to counteract the hyper mobility and i dont know about you but i would rather not deal with more Wither type abilities in this game.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

I disagree Mobility has become abusive in its current state where if you dont have Mobility you are going to suffer. It forces players to become used to this high mobility and then when put into a situation where Mobility is no longer an option they fall flat on their face.

When was this not true?

In my mind, players have always preferred mobile champions over immobile ones, at least since season 2 when I started playing. We just have more mobile champions to choose from now.

Thresh is the perfect example he allows someone who is far behind to grab his lantern and then jump into the fight or to pull someone out of a fight its a perfect use of Mobility as a powerful Utility.

Same with Sivir her ultimate grants her whole team asses made of vroom vroom but its apart of her ultimate and it has a long cooldown but its extremely powerful for initiations and escapes a perfect example of how to make Mobility properly powerful for both offensive and defensive purposes without cramming into the kit and adding extra power everywhere else.

I think these skills are quite good, but mobility effects are better when stacked. Thresh isn't as good with Ashe as he is with Corki or Graves. Sivir is at her absolute best with a mobile bruiser she can boost into guaranteed stickiness.

You probably won't make life better for immobile champions by providing ally mobility effects.

The problem is champs who never had mobility now are in the gutter and continually get worse and worse as the days go on.

I contend that champions that can't survive in a world where most champions are mobile are poorly designed.

It is quite possible to make immobile champions that work in a meta that features tons of mobility. For examples, consider Karthus Jinx Morgana Syndra Rumble.

Know why Ahri was nerfed?

Her ultimate allowed her to escape any situation any time as long as it was up and it was allowing her to chase when most champs would have been forced to give up plus on top of her damage and her charm she was unbearable. So they added a cooldown to her ult so she couldn't use it instantly after jumping.

Most people stopped playing her because of that.

I find this description of Ahri's history to be quite inaccurate.

Ahri was one of the big four midlaners for all of season 3 after they upped her R2/R3 cooldown to 1 second. Her biggest nerf was about forcing Ahri to land charm to assassinate people, rather than just using DFG+R+W. Even after that nerf, she is still absolutely fantastic at chasing.

It has literally become such a problem that 90 percent of bans i see are aimed at either champs with incredible mobility or champs with insane burst and it just so happens that the champs with incredible mobility also have insane burst.

Bans follow fashion as much as power. Right now we're banning tons of assassins. That didn't last before and it won't last now.

Its a problem and its abusive and its honestly ruining the game no matter how flashy or cool it is Rito is going to have to give everyone a dash or blink to compensate for all the dashes and blinks or they are going to have to go the way of Nasus and give blatantly hyper powered Utility to counteract the hyper mobility and i dont know about you but i would rather not deal with more Wither type abilities in this game.

I like champions with strong strengths and weak weaknesses. I think League has too many samey champions.

I really enjoy seeing immobile champions get kits that allow them to contend with mobile champions. I also like how the newer kits are employing contextual mobility, rather than simply reaching for the targeted gap closer button that was so common in bruiser era design.

HandheldBrandon1 votes

{quoted}

When was this not true?

In my mind, players have always preferred mobile champions over immobile ones, at least since season 2 when I started playing. We just have more mobile champions to choose from now.

People always preferred powerful champions however Mobility= power now and not having Mobility is seen as having less power. Back in the day Corki and Ezreal were second compared to Ashe who brought powerful Utility along with an incredibly powerful initiator. Ashe was the queen and then dashes started becoming more frequent and Ashe was losing power. Caitlyn is now the one i consider the queen because she is both easy to use and powerful in with most supports.

I think these skills are quite good, but mobility effects are better when stacked. Thresh isn't as good with Ashe as he is with Corki or Graves. Sivir is at her absolute best with a mobile bruiser she can boost into guaranteed stickiness.

You probably won't make life better for immobile champions by providing ally mobility effects.

I agree but at the same time it means that the champions kit itself is not overflowing with things. Giving a champion such as thresh for example the ability to be mobile allows him to take a carry that is immobile and help that carry out. However that still leaves the immobile carry....Immobile. Champions like Jarvan take advantage of that immobility with his dash into ult or dash into flash into ult there is no escaping him if you dont have a dash or 2 or flash up. However most newer ADCs have at least one dash besides Jinx who trades mobility for straight up raw power.

I contend that champions that can't survive in a world where most champions are mobile are poorly designed.

I completely disagree Champions who didn't have mobility are incredibly powerful and were incredibly powerful UNTIL champions with mobility made their way into league. Malphite was god damn terrifying back in the day because his ult was Stupid powerful and an incredible Initiator along with Amumu they were both kings of their realm. However with the advent of dash and blink city while those 2 examples are still good their are other champions who do it quite better and far more safer. J4 for example brings the same thing but does more damage and has more utility and team synergy.

Jinx IMO is actually perfectly designed. She doesn't have Mobility unless she kills a champion or gets an assist or kills a tower at which point she gets a huge burst to help jher continue chasing or to disengage. her lack of Mobility allowed them to give her incredible power with her Auto attacks and she has to choose which form she wants to use that power in. Does she use the long range AOE rockets to pummel people from afar or does she use her minigun and rip them to shreds with constant fire. She also has a long range poke ability and a snare to help her disengage or engage and an execute ultimate/aoe Skillshot.

Her lack of mobility but clearly defined power is IMO very well designed.

It is quite possible to make immobile champions that work in a meta that features tons of mobility. For examples, consider Karthus Jinx Morgana Syndra Rumble.

Syndra She has excellent poke/wave clear/ and burst and initiation. She has zero mobility but makes up for it with incredible damage.

Karthus Is useful both dead and alive and he has one of the best slows/debuffs in the game and his ultimate is killer. Even with all that though he is extremely squishy and is also a victim of Mobility creep. Any champion that can move around quickly can completely dodge all of his damage except for his ult and his AOE. Literally most champs nowadays unless they walk directly into him or his wall will just dodge all of his Q's and probably murder him on the spot.

Jinx Trades mobility for tons of damage and huge steroids. Her Mobility is gated by the fact that she needs to kill or assist in killing a champion or a tower and even now she still struggles with champs that have higher mobility as they can bypass most of her ways to keep people off her.

Morgana This one i don't get.

She has an incredibly powerful stun/lockdown combo and has black shield along with her puddle. Even with that stuff if someone is aiming for her and she doesn't have Zhonyas shes pretty much dead. If she misses a Q shes pretty much dead. The reason i think shes doing so well is that people don't see her as a high priority target and if shes close enough to ult you shes going to win the problem is getting there and not getting bursted.

Rumble has one of the most game changing ultimates in the game and he has a shield/movespeed buff. Most of his power is in his Q and his ultimate and honestly i don't see him played that often anymore. In the face of someone like Jax who can leap every few seconds he just isn't as powerful as he used to be.

I find this description of Ahri's history to be quite inaccurate.

I remember most of the threads like they were yesterday when people tried Ahri out with the ult change. People were screaming that Ahri was ruined and that the new changes made her useless even though she wasn't but never the less her play rate decreased and she fell into disfavor. Its only recently that I am seeing her being picked up again and still even with her ult she is still incredibly vulnerable during that 1 second she cant cast her ult again. The problem i saw was that people wanted another highly mobile burst Assassin and Riot didn't want that so they nerfed the mobility and made the damage slightly more complex to achieve and people hated it.

Ahri was one of the big four midlaners for all of season 3 after they upped her R2/R3 cooldown to 1 second. Her biggest nerf was about forcing Ahri to land charm to assassinate people, rather than just using DFG+R+W. Even after that nerf, she is still absolutely fantastic at chasing.

Bans follow fashion as much as power. Right now we're banning tons of assassins. That didn't last before and it won't last now.

Its not just Assassins i see but people like VI and graves are also being banned along with J4 and the typical Assassin. Its champs that have incredibly mobility and lockdown/damage that are being banned out not just typical Assassins.

I like champions with strong strengths and weak weaknesses. I think League has too many samey champions.

I really enjoy seeing immobile champions get kits that allow them to contend with mobile champions. I also like how the newer kits are employing contextual mobility, rather than simply reaching for the targeted gap closer button that was so common in bruiser era design.

I do as well i love it when Immobile champs can contend the problem is that the number of mobile champs to immobile champs continues to grow and the older champs who never had mobility are being left behind. Ashe who is probably considered the bottom of the barrel is so far in the dirt that i think Rito forgot about her. She is bottom of the barrel compared to her peers and one by one all her strengths are being sapped away by other champions.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

People always preferred powerful champions however Mobility= power now and not having Mobility is seen as having less power. Back in the day Corki and Ezreal were second compared to Ashe who brought powerful Utility along with an incredibly powerful initiator.

There wasn't really a competitive LoL scene in season 1. The gold standard of play was Ashe mid, while players thought Kassadin was on the weak side and only useful against mages. That should tell you how little players knew about the game.

As soon as we started taking the game even somewhat seriously, mobile champions dominated the game. Actually, mobility was less properly costed on early champion designs than it is now. Riot still tends to undercost mobility effects even today, but they got it hilariously wrong back then. Players even got it wrong; I remember the outcry for Ezreal buffs just before it became obvious he was the best champion in the game by a wide margin.

I agree but at the same time it means that the champions kit itself is not overflowing with things. Giving a champion such as thresh for example the ability to be mobile allows him to take a carry that is immobile and help that carry out. However that still leaves the immobile carry....Immobile.

Why would you take an immobile carry with Thresh? Mobility effects are better when stacked.

I completely disagree Champions who didn't have mobility are incredibly powerful and were incredibly powerful UNTIL champions with mobility made their way into league. Malphite was god damn terrifying back in the day because his ult was Stupid powerful and an incredible Initiator along with Amumu they were both kings of their realm.

Malphite and Amumu are both mobile champions. Malphite isn't doing well right now because he was designed in an armor stacking era and the game now favors HP stacking. Amumu is still super strong, one of the best solo queue junglers.

I do as well i love it when Immobile champs can contend the problem is that the number of mobile champs to immobile champs continues to grow and the older champs who never had mobility are being left behind. Ashe who is probably considered the bottom of the barrel is so far in the dirt that i think Rito forgot about her. She is bottom of the barrel compared to her peers and one by one all her strengths are being sapped away by other champions.

The immobile champions that can't compete in a mobile champ world (Garen, for instance) were never good. It's only more obvious they suck now because players are better than they used to be. They need reworks. Always have needed them, it's just more obvious now.

Ashe is an example of an immobile champ that can compete in the mobile champion world. She's a winning champion in every elo and is at her best in diamond. A good Ashe player carries hard because initiation from the ADC spot is a really rare tool. We don't see her in competitive play since the advent of Mikael's stupidly OP Crucible, which is so strong that every support buys it every game and it really dunks all over Ashe. Before always crucible, though, Ashe was instrumental in getting C9 to the top of the NA scene and also saw a solid amount of play in KR, where Ashe/Zyra was a really terrifying lane for a while.

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