Twitch's fine balancing

Garurumon··5 votes·718 views
Gyazo

With new changes coming to Varus and Darius (also came), these two champions had gone untouched for quite some time.

I think it's about time that we started discussing Twitch again.

Some time ago with his VU, Twitch had massivly increased popularity. With the time of this happening, the meta was in favor of Twitch, meaning that he as a lategame champion with good damage from a distance would destroy people and make them question the champion.

A few patches later, Riot took action. Bear in mind that this is four patches apart, giving a lot of time for the meta to change.

Quote:

 General
                   Base attack damage lowered to 46 from 49. 
 Deadly Venom
                                Damage over time changed to 1/2/3/4/5/6 (at levels 1/4/7/10/13/16) from 2/4/6/8 (at levels 1/6/11/16).

Ambush

         Stealth delay while not taking damage increased to 1.5 seconds from 1.25.
   
          Stealth delay while taking damage increased to 6 seconds from 3. 

While this doesn't look so bad, keep in mind that the meta changed towards mobility creeps. Champions that have had problems reaching Twitch in a fight had been switched out for champions with high mobility and fast engages. This caused the Stealth Delay to be a real problem, with the fact that you could be engaged upon so sudden, but had to wait up to 6 seconds to get a chance to reposition yourself properly.

Ever since these changes, Twitch has always been below 50% winrate. Currently his highest peak was around 47.5% winrate, which decreased rapidly soon afterwards. The Base attack damage nerf wasn't much at all, it was just a little power removal earlygame, but for his Passive, the poison? That was overkill. Let's say you fight level 1-3 and trade. Your poison is ONLY used for your E then, nothing else. 1 true damage per stack is laughable. At 6 stacks it would deal 6 true damage per second for a few seconds. And to get 6 stacks? Then he'd have to win a trade, which he can't early game if the enemy botlane focuses terribly. At max rank on your passive, you lose 12 true damage per second. Which isn't much, but becomes a lot in a longer fight. I've played entire matches as Twitch without my passive even finishing off ANY low enemy champions. The champion regeneration itself is usually higher than the damage.

My proposition for changes:

(P) Deadly Venom: Damage over time changed to 2/3/4/5/6/7 (at the same levels) from 1/2/3/4/5/6. - This would give him some power back in his poison, but wouldn't make it a much bigger threat.

(Q) Ambush: Stealth delay while taking damage decreased to a maximum of 4 seconds from 6. - This would again actually give him a chance to have a comeback in a fight instead of just running back while continously taking damage without possibilities of entering stealth.

(W) Venom Cask: no changes here. - I think it's solid, even though it feels REALLY underwhelming not to max last.

(E) Contaminate: No longer has a cast time, meaning you can use it while moving without delay. (It activates instantly upon activation instead of delay which can cause you to die before you activate it by damage). It now refreshes the poison debuff duration on the target(s).

(R) Rat-Ta-Tat-Tat: Damage for the duration is increased to 20/30/40 from 20/28/36. - This would be a good compensation for the early-game reduced damage. More damage into lategame. (even so little).

Stats:

Movement speed increased to 335 from 330. - I really feel like this could be useful for him. As he's got no dashes and no real escapes besides for his Stealth which often isn't a sure thing. This would also increase the kiting potential and less being rushed by mobility creeps.

Remember that these are just my opinion for what I think and would like to see to be changed. Feel free to post your own take on him.

14 Comments

Variks the Loyal4 votes

I say give him the Nidalee treatment. Buff his passive to do bonus damage to monsters so Twitch can jungle again.

Garurumon4 votes

{quoted}

I say give him the Nidalee treatment. Buff his passive to do bonus damage to monsters so Twitch can jungle again.

The bonus damage = 1% of target's current hp.

That 1% + current Poison true damage. I would honestly say that it's a good buff that isn't broken.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

While we're at it, we should just throw in completely random jungle-friendly buffs for EVERYONE! Twisted Fate's Pick a Card now deals 20% bonus damage to monsters. Karma's W can now target monsters. Ashe's Q now snares monsters instead of slowing them.

Because why not give all champions random free jungling skills?

Variks the Loyal1 votes

There's a difference. Twitch was a viable jungler last season. People who liked playing him then can no longer do so.

Moreover, I would LOVE for more champions to be able to jungle. Let Leona proc her own passive on neutral camps. Make Zyra's plants more durable to monster attacks. That increases jungle diversity.

Not everyone should be able to jungle. Just like not everyone should be able to support or mid or top. But there are some that should. Twitch is one of them, mainly because he used to be able to, and he was able to do it very well (His ganks circumvent wards, and starting red means level 2 gank mid).

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Right, I don't think everyone should be able to jungle, but the threshold should be a lot lower (provided they've runed, masteried, and bought item 1039 properly)... I feel like the list of possible junglers should even include people like Karma (shield and AOE damage), Viktor (shield, AOE damage, and AOE stun), and Morgana (passive spell vamp, snare, and AOE damage).

My post above was a bit of snark about their handing Nid an apparently random jungling buff in her passive now snaring monsters... I do like the idea of more jungle diversity, but I'm not sure that tuning individual champions is the best way to do that. The jungle itself has to be manageable.

WolfChases3 votes

Late game Twitch is fine to me, but his early game is really weak, I can't really trade with any other ADC untill I get BotRK and that sucks because at the time I get Cutlass enemy ADC will get BF Sword which clearly outdamages Cutlass in trades. Honnestly I think that Twitches early game is weaker and more risky than Vaynes.

Your buff ideas are fine tho..a bit higher damage on his passive would be nice and 4 sec delay on his Q seems fair to me. :)

Garurumon1 votes

{quoted}

Late game Twitch is fine to me, but his early game is really weak, I can't really trade with any other ADC untill I get BotRK and that sucks because at the time I get Cutlass enemy ADC will get BF Sword which clearly outdamages Cutlass in trades. Honnestly I think that Twitches early game is weaker and more risky than Vaynes.

Your buff ideas are fine tho..a bit higher damage on his passive would be nice and 4 sec delay on his Q seems fair to me. :)

Yeah, and throughout the match he requires a defensive support that actually can protect him from all the danger. He's extra vulnerable as he's so immobile.

Vayne has even a ton of mobility early game and can easily deal 50-ish true damage for 3 attacks of her W. Causing for some really high rewards for a "lategame-champ".

ofart2 votes
Garurumon3 votes

{quoted}

Twitch is weak atm.

Yes, that is exactly what both posts have pointed at.

Twitch was never strong. He was just in a good meta situation, where it wasn't flooded with assassins and Lee Sins that would destroy Twitch in a heartbeat. When the meta changed towards that, his true weaknesses were revealed. He was always borderline viable, depending on the current meta. And that nerf brought him down below.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

twitch = ow ow owowowie early game, decent mid game, hyper carry late game. people refuse to position him correctly and pick off the enemy adc/ap before the fight starts. his major concern is just getting dove on, which is why he needs a defensive team who can peel for him, at which point twitch can melt the whole enemy team if he wanted to.

he has 2 steroids and a "hey im not done with you, fight me" ability and ofc, 1 burst damage skill.

i think hes fine where he is in and with everything that he does, people just need to be more innovative in how to use him and or position better.

Garurumon2 votes

{quoted}

twitch = ow ow owowowie early game, decent mid game, hyper carry late game. people refuse to position him correctly and pick off the enemy adc/ap before the fight starts. his major concern is just getting dove on, which is why he needs a defensive team who can peel for him, at which point twitch can melt the whole enemy team if he wanted to.

he has 2 steroids and a "hey im not done with you, fight me" ability and ofc, 1 burst damage skill.

i think hes fine where he is in and with everything that he does, people just need to be more innovative in how to use him and or position better.

His attack speed "steroid" from his Q is virtually non-existant. It's very low and doesn't impact a ton. His ultimate "steroid" is not even to be concidered a steroid at all. Maybe you don't play this game. Because I do, and Ahri, Zed, Orianna, Akali, Leblanc are picked often as burst midlaners that delete poor old Twitch without counterplay.

You may say position yourself better? You can't do that if you are dead.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

{quoted}

His attack speed "steroid" from his Q is virtually non-existant. It's very low and doesn't impact a ton. His ultimate "steroid" is not even to be concidered a steroid at all. Maybe you don't play this game. Because I do, and Ahri, Zed, Orianna, Akali, Leblanc are picked often as burst midlaners that delete poor old Twitch without counterplay.

You may say position yourself better? You can't do that if you are dead.

i have no idea what you build on twitch. but i go bork yoummu, ie, lw, beserker grieves, (will later replace with a zephyr) filler item, rage potion. ( i go ruunanas for the filler because the 2 bolts that fire also work with his ultimate and also pierce now, if you played twitch you would know that and his aoe damage is redonculous) after that his 70% for 5sec off of Q, + yoummu proc, + ult, = i sit at 398atk so i crit for over 850 from IE, with an 850 range and a 2.2s attack speed.

i literally melt their back line instantly forcing flashes or they simply die. + all the damage i do piercing their other champs.

2 attacks per second + with 850 crits, + piercing multiple targets THINK ABOUT THAT

i cant explain to you that if you are standing in a leblanc dash range you are simply playing twitch wrong, and you deserve to lose the match. try playing differently.

Garurumon1 votes

{quoted}

i have no idea what you build on twitch. but i go bork yoummu, ie, lw, beserker grieves, (will later replace with a zephyr) filler item, rage potion. ( i go ruunanas for the filler because the 2 bolts that fire also work with his ultimate and also pierce now, if you played twitch you would know that and his aoe damage is redonculous) after that his 70% for 5sec off of Q, + yoummu proc, + ult, = i sit at 398atk so i crit for over 850 from IE, with an 850 range and a 2.2s attack speed.

i literally melt their back line instantly forcing flashes or they simply die. + all the damage i do piercing their other champs.

2 attacks per second + with 850 crits, + piercing multiple targets THINK ABOUT THAT

i cant explain to you that if you are standing in a leblanc dash range you are simply playing twitch wrong, and you deserve to lose the match. try playing differently.

Don't be a douche. Nowadays matches that gets everyone full builds is very unlikely. And even if you were full build, never go 6 AD items as ADC. You will almost always require a defensive one unless you're not taking it seriously. You have full build? So does leblanc. You are glasscannon. She uses flash then double W + R and you die.

But I guess her W =/= your regular attack range as Twitch. Either you are low elo or play in NA, because here we usually build Thornmail vs fed targets. And you don't even have anything that will heal you except for a tiny potion and a 10% lifesteal which won't give very much. Meaning that a few crits will put you down for good, Sonny.

Also, you just had to bring your generic ADC style into it? Ghostblade is such a lousy item on Twitch, just waste gold with it. It doesn't fit his playstyle and is just a temporary AS boost which could be permanent any different AD item.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

{quoted}

Don't be a douche. Nowadays matches that gets everyone full builds is very unlikely. And even if you were full build, never go 6 AD items as ADC. You will almost always require a defensive one unless you're not taking it seriously. You have full build? So does leblanc. You are glasscannon. She uses flash then double W + R and you die.

But I guess her W =/= your regular attack range as Twitch. Either you are low elo or play in NA, because here we usually build Thornmail vs fed targets. And you don't even have anything that will heal you except for a tiny potion and a 10% lifesteal which won't give very much. Meaning that a few crits will put you down for good, Sonny.

Also, you just had to bring your generic ADC style into it? Ghostblade is such a lousy item on Twitch, just waste gold with it. It doesn't fit his playstyle and is just a temporary AS boost which could be permanent any different AD item.

in no universe is twitch considered anything other than a late hyper carry, he either performs or gets caught, its his abilities that say that, he doesn't have an escape, he has no sustain, and his passive is worthless in a team fight, that leaves the latter, a hyper carry, you dont do that by building a GA/banshees veil, or utility items. he needs to go full ham, its the nature of an invis to reposition himself where he pleases and decimate.

he does have cheese potential, level 1 gank the mid lane. he does have surprise potential, sneak up on the enemy adc and blow everything.

TL;DR dont say your way is the only way to play twitch without giving this one serious thought or even attempting this one.

rule 1: dont trade with twitch, just dont. rule 2: play scared little girl hug your tower rule 3: give up farm for safety rule 4: team fight team fight team fight team fight, coordinate with your guys and make sure you can stay safe. rule 5: dont get dived on by a vi. you're better off on the edge of the fight and waiting for their bruiser to go in on someone else and then you counter. alternatively flank the side and get their carries on the spot.

twitch needs to be the one to decide "im going to do this now, and this is going to happen and the fight will take place on my terms" not "ohmg they went ham i gotta get out now so i dont die" nope, to bad, you're dead already.

you're not taking twitchs mechanics and abilities into consideration, you're looking at "this is how i want to play twitch, and he sucks this way, lets change that"

i agree with you that games rarely get to end stage 6 item builds and often times the match is decided from the laning phase alone. and twitchs laning phase sucks. but thats solo Q. solo Q doesn't accurately represent what each individual champ is capable of.

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