Vel'koz is getting reworked for being a generalist pick.

Wyrmblade·Feb 17, 2016·6 votes·594 views

Meanwhile and were generalist picks that crowded out their roles for years.

Are Lee Sin and Thresh going to be reworked too?

16 Comments

TehNACHOFeb 17, 20163 votes

I feel like you've taken something terribly out of context.

"Not being distinct" does not mean Vel'Koz is a generalist pick, it means there's almost no strategic reason to pick Vel'Koz over similar champions of his play style like Ziggs, Xerath, or Lux. Funky skillshots? All three of their Qs Amazing combination of Auto Attacks or Ability Chaining to set up your passive? All three champions. Lazer beams and blowing enemy teams up? Yes

Strategically speaking, the only thing Vel'Koz has going for him is his unique stat scaling and thus itemization preferences, and the buttload of True Damage he can do with his passive when played well. But be honest here, numbers do not make the game, and his passive truly feels like an afterthought given that it rewards a play style that Vel'Koz should already be playing.

Lux shield is unique in terms of gameplay. It flies out, and resets as it flies back, and it can effect allies if it tags them. It's not some ball of stats shield, it's something you can actively play with and around as you aim it for its initial shot and reposition to either speed up or slow down its return or even tag an ally(s) twice. Ziggs Passive is not defined just by its numbers. Its damage amp against towers gives Ziggs uniquely more pressure towards towers than any other mage of his category (who all traditionally suck at actually destroying towers themselves). It makes Ziggs gameplay interactions with towers different from any other mage of his kind. Xerath's passive rewards him for doing something he should not normally be doing as an artillery mage; getting close enough to auto attack. The reward for doing that? Getting more juice to getting back towards the real reason why you're playing him. It's a balancing lever, it's near impossible to become a (negative) balance crutch for the rest of his kit, but it still rounds out his kit.

Vel'Koz is bland in this sense. His Q is cute at best but it's not even his objectively best ability. It is his W in both popularity and winrate. His passive is a unique strength (true damage vs pure magic damage) and his stats are different enough from other mages, but numbers do not make the game. Gameplay makes the game. If we're being perfectly honest here, Vel'Koz is lacking in this regard.

CrossetteFeb 17, 20161 votes

Numbers do not make the game?

Jhin is ALL numbers, man.

TehNACHOFeb 17, 20161 votes

Are you talking about his passive? The same passive that also doesn't speed up his auto attacks and enforces a reload animation onto him, unique from every other champion in the game other than Graves?

I'd compare Jhin more to Ziggs than I would Vel'Koz in this matter. You can argue that, in effect, both are ball of stats passives and for the most part I agree. The thing is though, because of how these numbers are presented, because the active use from the player dynamically changes the effects of these numbers, it still greatly influences gameplay. Ziggs gives you a new output (or at least far more effective output) compared to any other mage with his numbers in a way that actively drives him to do something different (focus fire a tower rather than shove the lane and back off). Jhin forces you to make every shot count because even though the numbers behind his power is effectively the same, the slow fire rate and the even slower reload time opens you up to moments of weakness no other Marksman has to deal with to one exception Graves . Jhin is fine in this regard. Vel'Koz however is (still) not.

PixTronFeb 17, 20162 votes

Wait... since when was he a generalist pick? I've rarely seen him, unless his skins or himself were on sale.

Geez, Riot is really drunk this time.

TendajiXFeb 17, 20162 votes

He's being reworked to give him a unique job. He is too general as a mage, not a general pick. I completely disagree with riot's logic here tho and find vel'koz to be very unique.

what you deserveFeb 17, 20161 votes

He has unique output, but his input is generic. I think Riot's going to do a good job with making him more interesting.

TehNACHOFeb 17, 20161 votes

Oh shit someone gets it.

Under the hood, Vel'Koz is an amazing champion for his subtleties, but subtleties and subtleties alone don't and I wager can't define a champion.

DeathBurstFeb 17, 20162 votes

It's the opposite. He has unique inputs, i.e. very unique skills, like the laser with the turn-rate and the T-shape skillshot, but his output, i.e. what he provides to his team is very generic: AoE damage from afar, and that's basically all, unless you count the True Damage. But as the top comment said, "numbers don't make the game".

Dominick DestineFeb 17, 20162 votes

To be fair, Thresh , despite my ex-hatred of him, is fairly balanced at a reasonable level of power now. He's taken nerfs to pretty much all of his kit and some of his base stats, I think he is finally at a good spot.

I'd rather they buff other supports (I.e. supports across the board) a little bit rather than nerf Thresh any more.

The Voids CallFeb 17, 20161 votes

From what i've seen other supports really haven't caught up to him, rather people have finally gotten bored of him. This is evident by how many people have started playing just about any champion they feel like, in the bot lane along side their ADC, as "support"

Dominick DestineFeb 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Voids Call,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MjcJoRcj,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-02-17T01:38:22.449+0000)

From what i've seen other supports really haven't caught up to him

Alistar Soraka Janna Morgana Leona ???

The Voids CallFeb 17, 20161 votes

Yes, these are valid supports, but again, from my experience, what i've seen isn't them going up against thresh like they use to every fucking game (seriously there needs to be block rotations where over played champions just aren't available for a week) It's because they've mostly been matched against non-traditional champions supporting, or against champions other than thresh. Though in most games which i've seen with thresh in them, the thresh still was just as overloaded as always. He still had two answers for every problem, when other supports don't have any for some.

Dominick DestineFeb 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Voids Call,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MjcJoRcj,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-17T01:55:31.075+0000)

what i've seen isn't them going up against thresh like they use to every fucking game (seriously there needs to be block rotations where over played champions just aren't available for a week)

Do you even english? that's complete jibberish.

It's because they've mostly been matched against non-traditional champions supporting, or against champions other than thresh. Though in most games which i've seen with thresh in them, the thresh still was just

Once again, do you even english?

It's not complicated, other supports are just as strong and some even stronger, than thresh. Not all of them of course, but the ones that are not, should be slightly buffed to be par rather than thresh be nerfed further.

AbyssphereFeb 17, 20161 votes

There's a significant difference. Lee Sin and Thresh are generalists because there are few situations where they're not a great choice. Vel'Koz is a generalist because there are few situations where he is a great choice. That's why he needs a rework.