Why Azir soldier scaling needs to be .70 [Balance]

Velasan··2 votes·713 views

Hi league forum goers,

Posting this hoping to get some input from other Azir players, league in general, and hopefully the riot team that focuses on Azir's power level (which they keep saying they are watching in the patches, but then just altered right between two sets of bug fixes). Primarily they added a flat 15 damage to his Q, but reduced the damage his soldiers do by 10% ( .60 AP from .70 AP). This is not a QQ post. I will be laying out the reasons why I think the the scaling needs to be returned to where it was and what it means for Azir. I don't think Azir is unplayable at all (I main him in mid level silver and have a decent win ratio of 55%ish depending on my recent games), just that the recent nerfs hurt him quite a bit and will outline why.

  1. I understand that Azir with the normal .70 scaling does become pretty strong late game. If done correctly he could chunk an ADC to half health with Q and two soldier hits. In the patch notes they are claiming this is too strong. I'm all for balance, but I also don't see how this is different from any mage who can chunk someone with a spell. No one stands inside your soldiers unless they just aren't paying attention and then you should be able to kill them with it. On top of this it's very common for late game champions to be able to carry well. For example, Yi can pentakill an entire team late game and does true damage. So by comparison why is this bad for Azir who is not nearly that powerful? It seemed like Azirs abilities as a zoning/siege mage were supposed to add some of that damage to your opponents back line in the first place (as seen in the champion spotlight). Keeping in mind that this is the same as if you had an ADC that had all their normal attack damage reduced to 60%, and in this case Azir must move his soldiers to said target to attack at all to begin with.

  2. For attack speed to matter the soldiers need that .70 scaling. If they don't do enough damage (and dropping off 10% is a big number as the majority of your damage comes from your soldiers as your ult and E are situational and require good placement) then this leads to longer sustained fights. Azir doesn't want to be in longer sustained fights with less damage. If you can't do enough damage with your soldiers that requires even larger burst on your Q, a lot more than 15 damage. Azir can build tanky, but he is not a tank. The last thing you want is to be standing in the enemy trying to whittle them down while they walk through your soldiers to kill you. This makes his passive and nashor's tooth less than optimal and a little pointless in this regard.

  3. Enemies need to be afraid of standing in your soldiers. You are supposed to be able to zone them. There are already so many ways to negate magic damage that starting with already low soldier damage makes it hard for Azir to do what he is supposed to do best: Zoning. Since the change enemies see that your soldiers don't do that much and start almost ignoring them. The 15 extra damage on the Q at early levels doesn't make it easier to kill anyone, since you rarely finish off an opponent with Q, but rather Q to said opponent to get in extra soldier attacks and it doesn't make up the extra damage you lose resulting in a net nerf. His early game still suffers, but his late game has become worse.

  4. A 60% AP ratio leads to tendency to need Mpen. At 50% Mpen becomes better because it's not directly negated through MR (I'm sure the riot team that works on Azir already knows this hence why vel'koz does true damage on stacks but all his scalings are low). The problem is this is really bad for Azir. He really badly wants all the items that are AP based. You want zhonya's, rabadons, rylai's,and so on. If you need mpen on top of that and also need to be building tanky because your fights last longer you land up with a mess of itemization where you can't optimally build for anything. He needs those soldier scalings to be good to get a proper benefit out of solid AP items rather than having to build extra mpen taking up more inventory slots.

  5. The soldier attacks make up what makes Azir the champion that he is. He can sort of burst... but it's not really what he is designed to do. The best way to play him has always been getting in the maximum number of soldier hits which is now a weaker strategy. It's like the riot team is saying, "well, we didn't make him a burst mage, but we changed our minds so we tweaked his skills around." I don't understand this. You can occasionally kill someone with Q if they are weak enough, but it doesn't do enough damage by itself to be the center of his kit. It's also unlikely that you can do the entire Q, soldier attack, E, R combo on one person unless they are standing in place and even if you can you just blew all your cooldowns and need perfect positioning and timing.

Tl;DR the recent nerfs seem to go against Azir's kit as a late game mage (which I feel is what he is supposed to be). Want to get community and riot response. Even if they don't change it I want to at least get a feel for the reasoning involved here. I feel like riot puts a lot of thought into changes (even if they don't work out sometimes, I mean you never know how thousands of players will turn around things in a way you wouldn't expect), and that this was done for a very specific reason.

Considering Azir is still receiving bug fixes after being released months ago (yikes that's a lot of bugs) and also doesn't play quite like he did on release it seems weird to be tweaking his power levels at all.

So, what are everyone's thoughts on this? Azir

4 Comments

ValyrianBlade3 votes

I've always found azir to be way too strong.

He's simply way too safe to have that much power. He sends in untargetable soldiers to attack for him while he stays at range. Zoning power is good to have, but he can reposition those soldiers fairly frequently and deals a good chunk of damage each time he does so. Compare that to a Lux e for example - she has the same safety but her spell is guaranteed to only hit once at maximum, can be dodged easier than azir's soldiers, does less damage than them, and has a much shorter zoning duration. Meanwhile azir can throw his soldiers between him and his opponent, get a second attack from each as the opponent runs towards him, run backwards (kite), move the soldiers between them again for more damage, ult the enemy backwards, escape using a soldier, etc... He's just way too safe to have sustained damage at a high level.

And 70% ap scaling to 60% is not the same as nerfing an adc to 60% auto attacks (they start at 100%, so it's akin to 85.7%, which frozen heart and randuins omen both reduce attack speed by 15% effectively doing this anyways, so it's not like this size of a drop is huge).

Velasan1 votes

I see what you are saying, but isn't this basically the same as pointing out you want him to be weak because you simply don't like playing against him?

The type of zoning he provides is the exact same thing orianna does and at early levels his cooldowns are quite large. It's not like he can just throw them around in any direction until he has mid game level cdr capped out.

I wouldn't compare him to lux though, lux is all making mine fields to get at her and extremely long range. Azir can't ult you down from 1000 distance away or have his soldiers attack while moving around. In other words he gives up some flexibility for an exchange of power with his soldiers. Azirs kit is less directly powerful and just very good for making plays. He has no massive nuke, stealth, or etc.

I get that he is very safe though. Just considering what you are laying across.

Jefftiffy2 votes

No he was already strong they just shifted him so he isn't as insane late game so he has a much more bearable laning phase.

Wheatloaf1 votes

Mages in general survive via good positioning, not tank items, and Azir's huge sphere of influence gives him a lot of leeway. Bug fixes increase reliability, which is actually a big thing, and Azir could go kinda bonkers late-game. Just wait for the change to settle, since it's just a ratio tweak.

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