@Riot, Are you guys making alternatives to Infinity Edge?

Rebonack··3 votes·518 views

For the ADC itemization pass, I mean.

At the moment, we have four different general archetypes when it comes to auto-attack focused champions. OnHit, Hybrid, AD Caster, and Classic Right-Click Spammer. Items for ADCs fall into the IAS/Crit, Lifesteal, Penetration, and Big Crit categories. At the moment IAS/Crit supports all four classes of champions quite well, though Dancer could probably use a little more definition. Lifesteal is pretty healthy, too, though I think doing some work on Reaver to cement it as the AD caster lifesteal item of choice would be great. Penetration just needs a hybrid %pen option to cover all the bases.

Then there's Big Crit...

The only option right now is Infinity Edge, and Infinity Edge caters to the Classic ADC type and sort of to the AD Caster, though not really. For the Hybrid and OnHit ADC it really isn't that attractive.

The reason why things are so stale with ADCs is because one of their major item categories has zero choice involved in it. Are you an ADC? You're going to buy Infinity Edge at some point because there aren't any other options.

You guys should really make a new class of items with the Augmented Critical named passive, one for each of the four ADC styles so champions can buy a Big Crit item that fits with their play style rather than being stuck with a 'one item fits all' stat-stick.

15 Comments

The Yetii Rider2 votes

Augmented Critical - Your on-hit effects that deal physical and magic damage can critically strike.

Augmented Critical - The next spell you cast after you critically strike deals 50% additional damage and costs 0 mana.

I have no idea what you mean by "hybrid" auto champ. I guess you mean Kayle and Teemo?

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

Augmented Critical - Your on-hit effects that deal physical and magic damage can critically strike.

Augmented Critical - The next spell you cast after you critically strike deals 50% additional damage and costs 0 mana.

I have no idea what you mean by "hybrid" auto champ. I guess you mean Kayle and Teemo?

That's the basic idea, yeah. Some kind of crit-related effect that different types of champions would like. For Hybrid you would be looking at something like 'your crits deal bonus magic damage equal to (percentage) of your AP'. Champs that can hypothetically run Hybrid would be champions like Kog, Corki, Ez, MF, Varus, Jax, Kayle, ect.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

{quoted}

That's the basic idea, yeah. Some kind of crit-related effect that different types of champions would like. For Hybrid you would be looking at something like 'your crits deal bonus magic damage equal to (percentage) of your AP'. Champs that can hypothetically run Hybrid would be champions like Kog, Corki, Ez, MF, Varus, Jax, Kayle, ect.

Problem is, if they already need to build AD AND AP (and AS, and boots) where will they have room to build critical strike chance? If this item gives 20% crit chance like I.E. does then it won't be worth.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

Problem is, if they already need to build AD AND AP (and AS, and boots) where will they have room to build critical strike chance? If this item gives 20% crit chance like I.E. does then it won't be worth.

It would probably be clocking in around 35% (item 1018 item 3122 item 1058). Kick Trinity Force back up to 15% crit chance and they're golden.

Throw in a hybrid %pen remade item 3124 (not confirmed) and the new item 3146 (confirmed) that steals health based on 15% of all the damage you deal and you've got a workable hybrid auto-attacker build.

StealthWarden2 votes

I agree that essence reaver needs a buff/rework. 2 things about it are wonky

1.) grants coolddown from nowhere- should build out of something with cooldown Brutilizer would be amazing, and reduce the flat ad to compensate 2.) the point of mana is to cast spells, the mana refund should activate on spell casts that deal damage and hit a target. otherwise you have to stop casting to get your mana back and it becomes useless

You're going to buy Infinity Edge at some point because there aren't any other options.

This is not entirely true, there are other options but building them without IE reduces your damage output, so they aren't "good" options, however they do exist. The only reasonable solution, and i know im going to get hate on this, but removing IE or at least the crit steroid will do more to solve the issue than creating another item that "does the same thing" like item 3104 other than revealing the enemy for 3 seconds, its essentially an infinity edge and another big crit item just means another yasuo rework nerf. removing the steroid THEN making new items that create different strategies is the real answer.

Rebonack2 votes

{quoted}

This is not entirely true, there are other options but building them without IE reduces your damage output, so they aren't "good" options, however they do exist. The only reasonable solution, and i know im going to get hate on this, but removing IE or at least the crit steroid will do more to solve the issue than creating another item that "does the same thing" like item 3104 other than revealing the enemy for 3 seconds, its essentially an infinity edge and another big crit item just means another yasuo rework nerf. removing the steroid THEN making new items that create different strategies is the real answer.

I honestly don't think that going that far is really required.

The whole point of the Augmented Critical passive (that IE would also have) is that you can't get the benefit of all of them. Whichever one is closest to #1 in your item list would work and all the rest would have their passives disabled. Some champions just want their crits to crit harder, there's nothing wrong with that. But different types of champions would be better served is their crits did things other than just hurting more.

For example, an AD Caster focused item: Your physical damage has a (your crit%) chance of inflicting the target with a Bleed that deals (percentage of bonus AD) in physical damage over 3 seconds.

StealthWarden1 votes

For example, an AD Caster focused item: Your physical damage has a (your crit%) chance of inflicting the target with a Bleed that deals (percentage of bonus AD) in physical damage over 3 seconds.

so TL;DR you want lord van damns pillager back?

SaltyKracka1 votes

Protip: Riot will never make a hybrid %pen item.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

Protip: Riot will never make a hybrid %pen item.

If only there were some kind of defensive stat that provided equal protection against magic and physical damage... A stat that's ALSO a soft-counter to %Pen! Too bad there's nothing in the game like that, eh?

SaltyKracka1 votes

The whole point of having mixed damage is that it's hard to itemize against.

Riot's not going to go ahead and give people hybrid pen as well.

cFlame1 votes

item 3508 rework: 60 Attack Damage 5% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE PASSIVE: Grants you 15 bonus attack damage per 10% cooldown reduction you have. UNIQUE PASSIVE: Restores mana equal to 20% of the physical damage dealt by your abilities and mana equal to 5% of the magic damage dealt by your abilities.

SouL1ess1 votes

{quoted}

item 3508 rework: 60 30 Attack Damage 5% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE PASSIVE: Grants you 15 bonus attack damage per 10% cooldown reduction you have. UNIQUE PASSIVE: Restores mana equal to 20% of the physical damage dealt by your abilities and mana equal to 5% of the magic damage dealt by your abilities.

FTFY

cFlame1 votes

If somethings not broken, don't try and fix it. Gold Math: item 3508 (3200 G) -> item 3158 (1000 G). A has spent 4200 G to get 90 attack damage, 45 movement speed, 20% cooldown reduction, and mana return from ability damage. Lets compare this to B's build: item 3031 (3800 G) -> item 1051 (400 G). B has spent 4200 G to get 28% crit chance, slightly more than 1 in 4 attacks are critical hits. They also deal 50% more damage with critical strikes. They also have 80 attack damage. A will have slightly better attack damage, mana return, some cooldown reduction and 45 movement speed while B has an attack between 1 in 4 to 1 in 3 that deals 150% whopping bonus damage. Taking this, I believe it would be fair.

Gigahappytown1 votes

pretty sure riot made their point that they only want 1 item for marksman to rush when they gutted bt and made it a defensive item thats unviable to rush on marksman

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

pretty sure riot made their point that they only want 1 item for marksman to rush when they gutted bt and made it a defensive item thats unviable to rush on marksman

And then they realized that was pants-on-head retarded, hence why they're reworking ADC itemization (along with at least Quinn) in the upcoming Pre-Season.

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