Question About Soraka (Apologies, In Advance, For All The Quotations)

Tentacle Advisor··1 votes·724 views

Disclaimer to Riot Boards Members: This post is kind of a General Discussion post, but it deals with a Champion's gameplay, so I wasn't exactly sure where to post it.

Now before I get to my question, I would like to point out that this isn't a 'Salt' post. I am not bringing this up because of some game I played with Soraka (be it loss or victory). I am genuinely curious about this.

Anyway, my question is: What inspired the idea to make her [W - Astral Infusion] cost a portion of her own HP?

Despite Soraka being one of the 'less intuitive' (for lack of a better description) Champions in League of Legends, I have always enjoyed the idea behind her being a literal 'Healer/Medic.' There's been a lot of games that I have played that have had a character (or character setup) that allowed me to be a 'Healer/Medic', specializing more on being a dedicated 'Healer, Buffer/Debuffer' than being a dedicated 'damage dealer.'

However, I've never come across a game that required the 'Healer' to give up their own HP, their own lifeforce, in order to carry out their job as the team's 'Medic'. Was it literally just that? The idea of the 'Healer/Medic' literally sacrificing themselves for their allies/teammates? Or was it something else?

Also (at the risk of me getting flamed by everyone here), is it truly necessary for her [W - Astral Infusion] to cost both her HP and her Mana? Or is there a detail about having one of those costs removed that I am not considering (or am completely oblivious to)?

20 Comments

sobi9993 votes

Soraka is quite a tricky champ to play effectively with (can be said for all champs) but her kit is rather very simple so it makes people think she is relatively easy to use. However, when i see people saying get Warmogs or hell Morello on her it does make me think these people still haven't grasped her kit yet. Now let me explain how her healing works very briefly.

At lvl 18 she has 1855 max BASE health 10% of that is 185.5 ~ 186hp

Her usual AP build is Ardent censor, Athene's unholy grail, Zhonya, (maybe rabadon) otherwise i get solari + boots + eye of oasis (for wards) Without rabadon and usually with atleast 10AP from runes she has 180AP at full build

She would usually heal for 370hp at the end of the build (10% heals from ardent and 10% from mastery windspeaker) While she sacrifices 186Hp + some mana for 370hp heals

Now try adding some more HP to her base HP and see what happens. Warmogs gives 800HP which means soraka now will have 2655HP 10% of that is 266HP she now has to sacrifice to heal 370HP of an ally

Point of the above calculations is ?? She needs to stack less HP as possible from items to decrease the flat HP loss she has from her 10% max health. Another drawback to increasing flat hp is that you will take longer to regenerate 10% max health if you had more hp (usually from her Q) thus she can heal less that way as well because 10% of tank soraka is alot more flat hp than 10% of base health soraka. With Athenes grail you can have a decent Health regen for every mana regen you get (which is alot in her kit).

Now lets look at Soraka healing Tanks - They usually have 4k HP at max build. Soraka will sacrifice 186HP (10%) to heal 370HP (9%) of tanks Max Hp. You see the effectiveness of soraka is to get as much MR/Armor and heal the squishy carries of the team as much as possible instead of tanks. Not saying never to heal tanks :D

The health sacrifice is a huge burden on her but fortunately she has her Q from which she can sustain so well in lane but her heals are ridiculously weak early in lane. The reason soraka does so good is because she acts as extra health bars for the adc which means the adc is dishing out damage with the HP of a tank :D Although her weakness is burst as she excels in slow healing but with her Ult + summoner heal + solari active + W can prevent atleast 1-2 outbursts on the adc. Which in team fights is more than enough.

Also athenes grail also stacks charges when you damage opponent and for 1 charge you heal 1 hp max 250 charges can be stacked which is alot and this has no CD. It's a must item on soraka but i usually always buy ardent censor first because it provides more burst healing and the passive gives ADC some lifesteal and AS. Soraka hardly ever has mana issues if you get ardent censor, eye of the oasis and Athenes unholy grail so the counter argument that she can abuse morello is stupid. Mana is not the issue here, it's her health sacrifice.

Lastly executioner calling an 800g item applies GW on targets which means soraka's heals will have reduced 40% effect. This probably means that at most cases your heals sacrifice same amount of HP that you heal your allies and i believe soraka already suffers alot from this 10% max health sacrifice. Her counter is to go burst against her and if people fail to realize this than those are probably the ones that will suggest she is broken and we need the item to counter her.

Tentacle Advisor1 votes

You, my friend, get an instant upvote. (And, yes, I read all of that.) :p

I always knew that building HP on her was stupid. I just never knew why until now. Like, I knew it was bad, but that thought was off pure instinct, knowing what her penalty for heals was. I will definitely keep this in mind the next time I play her.

sobi9992 votes

I am still learning soraka so if you have any suggestions, it would be appreciated. I think i can give you more detail on how i play her so you get a good gist on her play style. I have over 100k mastery points on her and i must say that soraka if played properly is a beast. Remember soraka does good if the adc does good, she cannot carry the team herself but she can help a team mate to carry. You need to make sure that adc gets fed and good farm early on and if lets say that's not possible then all you need is atleast 1 person in your team who is decently ahead that you can carry. I hope it is not a tank because you would need to focus your heals on him in team fights. Usually i would advice to always help your adc but if it seems like he has no way of catching up then focus on the most damage dealing ally and trust me, winning will be really easy.

As for runes i have atleast 6+HP regen per 5sec in total and 12 AP atleast. I advice you get some armor and MR. This rune page is for sustain soraka as i personally don't like full AP soraka. I believe that build works against noobs only.

Also try taking Q first and harass opponent as it has good base damage early on and even if you get poked you will regen health back but obviously becareful when you engage. You basically want the enemy adc to farm as less as possible. After Q i usually take W and then i max Q once more to harass adc. If i think i have harassed enough then i just get E and max W there after. Point is that you can only really harass with her Q early on as the scaling is really bad as it levels up so you rather level up your W after you have harassed enough. It really does make a difference even if your adc doesn't get a kill the enemy adc will miss 10-20 cs.

In lanes where the enemy bot lane has high poke such as varus + karma or cait + karma or velkoz + any poke adc then i go for W always first because your adc will get harassed alot and you need to keep healing him so he can farm and not get burst down. If there are poke champs then i absolutely make sure i don't get poked and tell my adc to poke the enemy supp whenever possible because no supp can match soraka's sustain. You will need to get Q's now and then as well to sustain.

Lastly the first 2 items i go with soraka are faeiry charm (gives 25% base mana) and ancient coin. They are must go first 2 items. With my health regen runes i can sustain pretty well i just always need mana to Q or W and obviously i try to avoid as much damage as possible. Q is another health regen so it's the mana you need. Usually straight after that i buy forbidden idol (ingredient of ardent censor) and then i either buy boots (mobility or swiftness) maybe get ninja tabi if enemy adc focuses you instead of your adc OR i finish ardent censor. Afterwards i would advice to go for sighstone (eye of oasis), as a soraka you're very susceptible to ganks.

If you want to succeed with her you need to learn how to position properly which i can't really explain and comes with time and practice.

I do want to advice that solari is really really good if you believe the enemy has too much burst and you're unable to heal the burst such as if enemy team has khazix or any burst assasin. Zhonya is there for extra armor and for the 70AP (larger heals) and the beautiful active it has. So if enemy team has lots of AP users then solari is a must. If enemy team has lots of AD then get zhonya before solari in most cases. If enemy has all AD then zhonya and guardian angel are perfect. You definitely need MR/Armor as you lose your effectiveness with diminished health and without resistance the enemy will chunk mass amount of your health. Also usually enemies will focus you first because they know they can't kill the adc when your healin ghim and if you have resistance you can survive their burst before adc kills them. Btw remember that you don't always have to ult when all team mates have low health but usually i use it to save my adc from burst. One less ally means much less damage so just saving one ally using your ult increases the overall damage your team can deal. Soraka doesn't always works in some team comp and over the time i have realized that if you have too many tanks or less damage champs in your team then don't pick soraka would be my advice.

TheFallenShaw1 votes

just saying, removeing her hp or mana cost would be considered a buff, and people already hate her. She's generally focused down by enemys bc her healing annoys the hell out of them. Team mates get frustrated bc her lack of fight. Even full max ap soraka cant 1v1 really.

I hope she gets a remake one day to something more versitile i guess is the word. I honestly think it was a mistake to make her the way she is by riot. No champion should not be able to 1v1 ever. Hence being called a champion. Want to know how bad it is, just try and solo a super minion with her. You'll win but it'll take forever. If anything I think her E needs buffed to deal damage to more than just champions. As far as 1v1s go Her current kit makes it impossible to buff so she can without making her OP

SchmidttyGames1 votes

You've clearly never fought an AD Soraka that never dies.

TheFallenShaw1 votes

[{quoted}](name=RAMP Schmidtty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McG1w3i1,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-31T12:19:00.604+0000)

You've clearly never fought an AD Soraka that never dies.

nope whats the build for that on runes and items?

SchmidttyGames1 votes

The ones I've seen work well ran Attack Speed Glyphs/Seals and Attack Damage Marks/Quints with Fervor.

Their normal builds usually look something like this.

item 3153 item 3124 item 3115 item 3085 item 3078 item 3009

Tentacle Advisor1 votes

I've ran her with item 3072 item 3153 item 3085 item 3812 item 3065 item 3006.

It's not OP, but it's not 'too weak' either. It's fun to use if you know how to position yourself correctly, as well as 'Q' spam adding extra healing to the build. Plus, the slow from her Q makes it easier to fight without being punished too heavily for being a (very) squishy champion.

EDIT: Add item 3022 in there somewhere to be even more of an 'ass'. :p

Valderis Vandala1 votes

Because without a health cost she would just never stop healing. All you'd need to do is build Morellonomicon on her and she has practically infinite mana.

The same kinda goes if the ability only costing health, then you just buy a Warmogs and you have infinite health.

Tentacle Advisor1 votes

I guess that's what I was missing then. The Morello thing, I can definitely see as a problem, given how strong its Mana Regen is right now. However, I would have assumed she'd build Athene's Unholy Grail for the extra heals. Is Athene's really that much in a bad spot right now? Or is it just being outshined by Morello?

Also, I always thought that building Warmogs, on current Soraka, was counterproductive? Or, at least, I was told it was once or twice before.

Valderis Vandala1 votes

I'm not saying you should build them, I'm saying it could be the reason why her costs are the way they are.

I don't play on summoners rift, so I don't know what works for her there.

I only play her on aram, and seeing a Soraka with Athene's just makes be cringe, I much prefer to go Morello early and add Warmogs late, early AP gives strong heals and eventually you get just enough hp to make Warmogs work which is pretty nice. Can't really do this on the rift with a support budget though.

Tentacle Advisor1 votes

Fair enough. It does make me hope they have a rework planned for her. No matter how distant in the future it may be. I actually love Soraka, but I still hate going up against her. I hate having that kind of love-hate relationship with a Champion.

Valderis Vandala2 votes

I don't understand the problem people have with her, just put enough damage on the enemy team and eventually the healing runs dry. Or do enough burst to make her healing useless. Or catch her out of position and kill her.

She's never been a problem for me, her cc is kinda crap, her poke doesn't scale well, her healing isn't infinite, she can't heal through burst damage, she gets killed really easily, and the team she is on basically has to fight with only 4 real threats because soraka just isn't one. She's the most team dependent champion there is and she doesn't do a lot for her team.

Tentacle Advisor1 votes

That's actually why I hate playing against her. Whenever I use her, my team never does well enough to benefit from my healing/assisting. Whenever I go up against her, the opposing Soraka's team almost never dies. My hate for her (although, it's more of a 'situational distaste') stems from that very scenario. Besides that, however, I know all too well about her heavily exploitable squishyness and team dependency. Like, she needs buffs, but any buff(s) given to her, in her current form, would simply put her over the 'breaking' point. So, that's why I am settling for the hope of a rework.

EDIT: Honestly, though, I love Soraka for her theme and design, rather than for her gameplay.

Valderis Vandala2 votes

XD Ah, so you are just bad at soraka.

On a more serious note, balancing soraka is difficult, she can easily out heal the most damaging opponent (like total stats at post-game) and still do some damage herself and have area of effect cc. She can be so good and feel so useless at the same time; crap cc, little damage, can't keep teammates alive when it matters most. Soraka due to her identity will always have this problem.

I don't know if she needs buffs or nerfs, I don't understand the game well enough to have a opinion on that.

Tentacle Advisor1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valderis Vandala,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McG1w3i1,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-31T13:48:40.513+0000)

XD Ah, so you are just bad terrible at soraka.

FTFY :p

Jokes aside, though, back when she first got reworked, and a few games after her rework's 'modifications', I actually did rather well on her. But, it's like, the closer and closer we got to the current season, the harder it seemed to play her at even a decent level. I don't know what happened, to be honest. Either I just didn't play her as much as before or I just wasn't as good on her as I was led to believe. (Or both.)

Valderis Vandala1 votes

I wouldn't know, I only hear nightmare stories of her in her "golden" years where she could nuke the mr of the whole enemy team and got easy kills. I'm not a old enough league player to have experienced that. I only know of her last rework, I like her better now.

I'm not great with her either, took me forever to understand that going ap with her instead of early Warmogs was sooo much better.

Tentacle Advisor1 votes

You know, I've never actually tried early AP Raka before. I should do so next time I play her. Speaking of, what are your thoughts on building Ardent as 2nd item?

Valderis Vandala1 votes

You can check my match history, filter for just the soraka games. Seems I've been building it second lately.

It's always a nice item to have because she uses every stat on it, but it is slot inefficient like all support items and it only truly shines when parred with a adc or other fast auto attacking champion. Still, it works so eh? It's also nice that its relatively cheap.

EDIT: I mainly build it because I don't like items with active abilities. But that is my own dumb thing, those active abilities on support items are powerful if you know how to use them, its easy to forgo Ardent in favor of any other support item your team might need.

Linna Excel1 votes

Anyway, my question is: What inspired the idea to make her [W - Astral Infusion] cost a portion of her own HP?

Morello being a questionable game designer is what happened. Basically he got the idea from this.

The problem with that is, LoL is a 5 man game and GW had 8 man teams with 2 healers on them. Also the healers have 8 skills on their bar so if you cast infuse, you can heal yourself back up with another skill if the other healer doesn't. GW also had more defined front and mid lines than LOL. In LOL you might not have a proper front line at all where in GW, most teams ran with 2 high DPS tanky bruisers up front and 4 more champs in the mid line.

So Morello borrowed an idea from an environment designed to support it and put it in one that wasn't.

Also (at the risk of me getting flamed by everyone here), is it truly necessary for her [W - Astral Infusion] to cost both her HP and her Mana? Or is there a detail about having one of those costs removed that I am not considering (or am completely oblivious to)?

Yes they could get rid of the health costs, but then they have to get rid of the self healing on her Q, and figure out how they can gate her healing in some manner while encouraging her to be a little less passive. However I think riot is happy enough where she is right now and don't want to put the time and effort into a second rework when there are bigger opportunities.

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