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Players should be allowed to leave matches where they're being abused.

Cale017··3 votes·1,175 views

As I'm writing this, there is currently a now 4v5 match going on that I was previously a part of.

The enemy team is baiting for responses, clearly a troll comp with several TPs and a Fiddlesupport who's response to "you have a fun match too" is "Should I?" while their Malz spams "Trololol". Not the best sort of people to play against, but the Rengar seems cool. I gave him a hard leash and he was thankful. That's a good sign right?

I'm still learning Rumble, and this is my second time with him mind you. In the Teambuilder queue I even warn them, saying I might have a hard time. My last hitting is shit, and I get put up against a Zac who can basically poke for free and sustain almost indefinitely. I know Zac's kit pretty well, enough so that I still try to jungle with him on occasion, so I know that his blobs have to be contested when an enemy laner is near. I let him push up a bit and try to freeze the lane as best as I can. I'm not doing horribly, but I'm sorta last hitting okay, and once I get a few points in my Q I'm able to actually start harassing him better, taking chunks out of his life that he can't get back within the next few seconds. Zac pushes hard, I'm getting low, ask for help and my Rengar, near full health, just sits at wolves and does nothing. I manage to bait Zac back, he misses his knockup, turret takes him out and I'm able to kill his blobs before he resurrects.

First blood. Cool.

Little while later, after once whiffing my ult, I manage to get a second kill. Cool.

Fast forwards about fifteen minutes and Xin Xiao has been camping my lane, our Fizz is roaming without having gotten his own turret and getting caught out, their Fiddle support picks up a double on my bot lane, all while Rengar is wandering around in the jungle. At one point after Xin has gotten Zac a kill on me he goes top and takes Zac out, but instead of getting rid of his blobs he starts farming minions, realizes the blobs are there, tries to smite one and misses it, feeds Zac a double.

Now I'm a jungle main, so I know missing smite on an objective, while bad, isn't a sign that you're shit. Just means you mistimed. But he completely missed smite on a slow moving blob that doesn't have to be secured with a timely press of the F key, just blown to pieces ASAP. Keep in mind here, Rengar's build thus far was a Skirmisher's Saber, he hasn't build Devourers or any enchantment at all, Berserker's Greaves, and he has a Triforce. Only time he'll show up in lane is to mop up.

At this point with Fizz never in his own late their Malz is breathing down my neck as well. I start feeding, hard. I can't get any CS to try and build any defensive items. I'm stuck trying to hold my lane while I have a Xin spear up my ass and Zac pouring himself into my lungs, and at one point there's a teamfight going on in the mid lane. We have a moment of vision along the river where I see two more enemies on their way down to the 3v3 happening.

I start heading down there hoping I can help. Even if I'm behind, landing a teamwide ult can help my team turn the tides, right?

Only while that teamfight was going on, the two enemies who blipped on the map hadn't gone down to mid. They'd stayed in river and jumped all over me the second I was just past the Baron pit.

Our Kalista immediately gets on my case for being caught out, and when I point out that I was trying to help with the teamfight she goes off on me for just being a feeder. I tell her that next time I won't bother coming down to try and help, and I'll just stay top, which is pushed back to the second turret (Rengar was getting Gromp at almost full health while Zac, at about a third health after killing me, took the first one by the way). Take a few steps out into my top lane to try and get some farm, and Malzahar rushes, suppresses, and I die.

I lost it. Unable to move past my turret, unable to help in teamfights, unable to get even one measly creep without giving up a kill. With Rengar building like a twat, not listening to cries for help or even communicating. Kalista is on my case, Rengar is saying I'm bitching at him when all I was doing was telling him he might want to smite Zac's passive a bit sooner before he's already reforming and asking him what his focus is with that build. Kalista is toxic, our Fizz is useless, and Leona's trying her best. At least Fizz and Leona weren't on my case, but the Fizz in particular wasn't being of much help. So from what I gathered, Leona was the only other decent person on the team.

The match has just ended, and I had to do that idiotic "type agree if you promise not to leave games again".

It wouldn't accept "I shouldn't have to play on a team with my own enemies." Go figure.

48 Comments

disregardable4 votes

Okay, now let's review what would've happened if you actually did what Riot suggests and muted.

You leash Rengar. You get first blood. Cool. You get another kill. Cool. Your team makes some mistakes. You get camped. You die a bit. To be expected, Zac did earlier, right? Your team isn't the only one. Fizz lets Malz roam while trying to catch up. A teamfight goes on nowhere near you, you get caught out. Malz gets another kill.

That's it. I'm sure you've been in games where the score was 3-20 and you were 0-6, and you didn't AFK. That's a bit stupid to AFK over.

TL;DR: Warning so deserved.

Cale0171 votes

The score isn't why I left. You're missing the entire point.

"Nowhere near you?" It was a fifteen second walk down the river, and last I checked that's what my ult does best. Disrupt teamfights. I saw an opportunity to try and help my team. Are you saying I should ignore it when they start getting beaten back? What, so my team can get on me for not coming to help?

Even if I mute them, it doesn't change that I was getting no assistance. In fact, muting them just makes it harder to get any assistance because now I've closed an avenue of communication. If they say something that might actually be helpful, I won't see it. I've gone super negative before and while that's frustrating, I won't leave a match because of it.

I left the match because I signed up to play a 5v5 game. Not a 1v9.

disregardable2 votes

Your team isn't required to come to your lane, help you get kills, or personally assist you in any way. They need to do what they think will help them win the game. Frankly, considering it was your second time Rumble, I wouldn't have helped you while behind either. Check your expectations, play more rationally, and mute when you're upset. If you thought you needed them to play well, YOU should've went TO THEM. It's not their fault you did poorly, and it's not their fault you AFK'd.

Cale0171 votes

Maybe I'm just weird, but I go out of my way to help people who are learning a champion.

Why?

Because I know firsthand how difficult it can be to try and keep up while you're being beaten back with a fresh champ.

You can't reasonably expect someone to improve their gameplay when they're being beaten back constantly. All that teaches you to do is run in the other direction the moment an enemy shows up. Not helping someone who's still learning a champion after they fall behind is the worst possible thing you can do. Especially when that guy still manages to get the first two kills in the game and doesn't start asking for help until it was reasonable to do so, like when an enemy is about to start teabagging his turret.

I did go to them. Several times. I warned Fizz when he was leaving lane where not to go to get killed, he was going there anyways and getting killed. I tried setting up for Rengar to get kills, even at the expense of my own life when I knew I wasn't getting away, and fed him doubles twice. I WAS attempting to help my team, but all the while I was being shit on for it.

I'm not expecting to be carried. I'm expecting a little bit of human decency.

disregardable3 votes

Then once again, check your expectations. I do not care if you have a good game. I will not go out of my way to give you one or prevent you from not having one. It is not my business. It's my business to make sure that I have a good game. It's also my business to make sure that I win. It's nice that you don't want to act that way, but just remember that no one else is bound by your preferences.

Cale0171 votes

Too bad it's a team game?

It's your business what your team is doing. If a teammate is having a bad game, guess what, it's YOUR business because it's affecting YOU. Helping a teammate who's on a learning curve increases your chances of winning because if you can get them fed, or at least help them keep up, they have a better chance of helping out in the game.

That's called a team focus. It doesn't matter how good of a match you're having if you have one or two feeding lanes, because even if you're having a good match, there are two more members of the enemy team having a better match than you by picking off people who are struggling.

disregardable1 votes

Actually, someone does poorly in every match. Usually two people, and occasionally three. It has no bearing on whether or not I can win this game with the other person that's doing well. All they need to do is keep farming, stick to their roles, and try not to engage. If they do that, we win without me helping them. If they don't do that, helping them wouldn't win the game anyway. Not my issue.

Cale0171 votes

There's a very large difference between doing poorly, and outright struggling and being targeted by the enemy team as the wink link. If Rengar or Fizz had been capitalizing on the fact that most of the time I spent in the match there were two, or even three, enemies camping out my top lane to push bottom or mid, or to work together with the other two members of my team to take out the enemies left alone, I would have understood. At that point I'm bait. It's frustrating, and annoying, but I'm still helping by making the team thirsty for someone who's already worthless while they take objectives and kills from the undefended lanes.

But that isn't what happened.

So what happens when someone can't farm? And when they can't farm, they can't get the items required to do their roles. What's more, what happens when members of their team are telling them to stay away from teamfights, which as a fighter is exactly where your role dictates you be?

You have to help people who are struggling or they can't farm safely. They can't stick to their role. And they can't always control whether or not they're being engaged upon.

disregardable1 votes

Listen bro, if you really can't play this game without being babysat, maybe you should pick a different genre of video games. :)

Cale0171 votes

It's not about being babysat. But when the lane is consistently pushed almost to my turret, and I'm putting as much effort as I can into keeping it there so it's easy ganks for the jungler who's about six seconds away, there's no reason NOT to come up and gank. Especially when they're popping everything they have chasing me down, leaving them with no ults to fight back if their two man dive gets counterganked.

disregardable1 votes

Oh yes, it is. You want players to take care of you instead of themselves. The reason the jungler wouldn't gank was because he didn't WANT to gank. Ganks can turn out well or badly, but the farm ends well 99% of the time. Give it a break.

Cale0171 votes

It's about defending a lane. If they're essentially free pushing, and there are teammates nearby, they need to either

A) push back

B) go push one of the enemy's undefended lanes

This Rengar did neither of these things. He just powerfarmed a Skirmisher's Saber that didn't even have the farming enchantment on it.

Jungle is my main role. I know what it entails, and whether or not he wanted to gank doesn't change that there were several lanes being pushed back because he wasn't. That's your job as a jungler, to go where you're needed. Whether it's for offensive or for defensive reasons, you pick the best points to either strengthen an offense or reinforce a defense. He wasn't taking care of me, or of the bot lane, or of the mid lane, or of anything.

Taking care of yourself doesn't win a team game. It puts you in a better position to try and help win it, sure, but if you never actually do the other half of farming (you know, the part where you put the farm to good use) it all means absolutely nothing. If a Nasus gets over a thousand stacks on his Q it doesn't mean a goddamn thing if he never wades into a teamfight and uses it.

Tell you what. Go queue up with a Nocturne who never leaves his jungle to stack his Devourer while inhibs are being taken and tell me how it works out for you.

disregardable1 votes

"Wahh, not everyone plays the way I play, and that's wrong!!"

Cale0171 votes

"I'm playing a team game and I recognize that people being selfish doesn't win matches."

But good try though.

Go ahead and list me off the pros who win matches by powerfarming and never going into teamfights or helping allies.

Go ahead.

I'll wait.

disregardable1 votes

Every single one of them that had to climb the soloqueue ranks to get noticed in Diamond/Challenger.

Cale0171 votes

And you never actually fully explained what happens if I do what Riot says. You just left it off at what happened up to the point where I left.

You know what happens? I waste another twenty minutes of my life sitting in a match with people who hate me for attempting to learn a new champion

gasp How dare I attempt to broaden my horizons?

Knowing that even if I have them muted and can't hear what they're saying, they are already not going to try and assist me at moments when they can, are probably already going to report me for feeding, meanwhile watching the enemy team laugh. If not in the allchat, with their champions.

disregardable1 votes

Boohoo?

Cale0171 votes

Just saying. Don't open with "Okay, now let's review what would've happened if you actually did what Riot suggests and muted." but not give a review. If you're going to patronize, go through with it.

Lord Dusteon4 votes

Honestly though, you should have just muted your team and stayed in game so you could report them afterwards.

Cale0171 votes

I normally would. But this particular day, staying in a match like that was the last thing I wanted to do. I already don't enjoy playing losing matches, and it was pretty clearly a loss at that point.

And don't give me the "any match can be won." You know as well as I do that after a certain point, there's too much avalanche to even call it a snowball anymore.

Sitting in on that match when I could have been doing literally anything else was just a thought I couldn't bear. This is the first time I've voluntarily left a match in about a year now, and a year ago I was still just trying to climb levels to hit 30. Not exactly the same sort of player now that I was back then.

There's a limit to how much a sane (or at least half sane, I have to give myself SOME hope for the future lol) individual can take. Normally I'm pretty thick skinned, but for whatever combination of factors was pushing me towards that point of no return, I couldn't stand to continue to look at the names of my teammates, much less try to play a match with them.

I get that leaving a match is bad. God knows I've been on the receiving end of that plenty of times. More than most since I'm a jungle main so when a lane feeds and leaves I'm the one who has to pick up the slack.

But there should be something in place where Riot looks at matches where a player has left, maybe giving them an option when they go to hit exit game where they can check off either

  1. I'm a dick

  2. Abusive teammates

And Riot looks at the chatlogs afterwards to see if maybe, just maybe, your team WAS being pricks to you because you were having an off match or an off day. If they look and your team wasn't, you get the penalty as normal.

Eawaf2 votes

Me thinks you expect too much. Especially w/random strangers on the interweb.

Cale0171 votes

I expect the same treatment that I try to give others. If a laner is having a hard time, I try and help them out. Even if I can't get them a kill I can pressure the enemy laner so my guy can free farm. I can give them extra vision of the surrounding area to help them keep from getting ganked too much. In the best case scenario I land them a kill and hopefully shut down an enemy on a spree, which means more gold for the guy who got the kill.

Everyone who plays this game, random stranger or friend, knows what it's like to be losing a lane because you're new to a champion, or because you got countered hard. And no one likes it. So why is it that no one cares unless it's happening to them? There's no empathy in this game, and that's most of the reason why the community gets as bad a reputation as it does. If people spent half as much time considering that the people on their team are living, breathing, human beings who are susceptible to anger, frustration, or even sadness and self deprecation when they feel bad about having a rough match because they're dragging the team down, maybe then people would start acting like human beings instead of treating their fellow gamer like a necessity to pad their own KDA.

Last I checked, wins are more important than KDA. Your personal score means fuck all if you get a loss in the end. Anyone who claims to want to win at this game should be able to understand why it's important to help a struggling teammate.

Eawaf2 votes

lol No one is stopping you from doing that. However, you must except that there are consequences for doing so. If you spent money on your account, think better and just refund it. That way you can just leave and not care about it. If you did spend money then just create another account. Either way, no one is stopping you from leaving the game but yourself.

And no Rito will never make a system that will allow anyone to leave the game for any reason. If you have to use the word 'why' in relation to some one leaving, it's too much for them and they don't want it part of their leaver buster system.

Cale0171 votes

You don't get money back. If you refund you just get the RP back. And I used up my three refunds in my noob days.

If Riot can remove the option to leave from a match, they can also make it so that you have a choice of why you're leaving during that five second wait before you can actually leave. If someone is shown to be abusing that option, then it's removed altogether. See how easy that is?

Eawaf1 votes

Bank on Rito designing a system that has as little human element as possible. They don't the people to watch 27 million daily active players. If leaver buster picks up that you are afk, then that's it. Run circles around the fountain and spam your abilities of you don't want to be flagged for afk.

You can activily protest your teamates/match in other ways then just afk'ing.

Rito does not want to add any kind of interpretation to afk/leavers imo. It's the most simple cut and dry kind of punishment there in league. If the system flags you, you get punished, the end. Don't let it flag you.

Cale0171 votes

Running circles around base will get me reported all the same. Why sit in a match that's making me ill to remain in just to get reported for sitting at base when I could get off and go work on my Pokemon team? Watch an episode of a show? Go and do literally anything other than listen to the sounds of League on my speakers.

Oliver The Fiend1 votes

You had it coming, while I don't' condone the actions of your team I do think there were things you could have done that would have prevented such harsh feelings.

But you had it coming just by admitting you play pogemanz.

Cale0171 votes

Because playing a game I've loved since childhood apparently means people are allowed to trash me for no reason, not knowing I even play it?

Oooookayyyyy...

And no, not really. I was doing literally everything I could. They didn't want me at teamfights, so I tried to stay in lane. When I was alone in lane the enemy would pounce me en masse. I couldn't even farm under turret, they would delete me and get back to safety without any issue.

The only way I could have helped was by standing by at the ready and dropping my ult on teamfights, but since they didn't want me anywhere near their teamfights there was no right answer.

Eawaf1 votes

They are never going to that. Like i said before. There are 27 million daily players as of january 2014. There is not enough employees at Rito to review all the reports they would get by adding this function. They already can't handle what they have now. Adding more would help? I don't think so.

Cale0171 votes

If leaving a game is that big a priority, they can easily pull people off of the team that reviews claims of verbal abuse or offensive language to look at these instead.

If they want to make us believe it's a big deal, treat it like a big deal. But make it just as big a deal if teammates make someone feel like they're sleeping with the enemy.

Eawaf1 votes

Afk and leavers are a problem. And Rito has addressed the problem. How they addressed it might not be the way you like it, but they have addressed it. And at this time i don't see them doing anything to change it.

Cale0171 votes

They haven't addressed half the reason people will leave a game though: abuse from their own team.

All they've done is told people that if your teammates are actively fucking you over, whether by being trolls and feeding or just being plain unhelpful, there is nothing you can do about that and that you are required to sit in that match with them.

For a company that talks about promoting counterplay, they've left a rather large part of the experience of playing this game as unable to be played against when it's set against you.

Your own teammates.

AtheosisX1 votes

They ban people for being verbally abusive all the time. The process is invisible to you though, so you don't think they are doing anything about the problem. Trust me, if they weren't doing something about it abuse would happen in every single game.

Cale0171 votes

I didn't say they haven't. But that still doesn't change that people are then stuck in a match which, nine times out of ten, is also a losing one because if teammates are more focused on abusing a player, they aren't playing as well as they should be.

No one should be stuck in that situation.

Eawaf1 votes

There is no way for them to address this issue under the current format of the game. They don't want to address it either. imo

EffectFX1 votes

Or. OR. You could ignore them immediately and finish the game and report them afterwards.

Cale0171 votes

Hard to ignore them when you still need them for help defending your lane from three enemies at a time.

EffectFX1 votes

You don't need to type, or see them typing for that to happen.

Cale0171 votes

If there's information being passed on through text instead of ping, which was pretty clearly what was going on as I was the only person capable of pinging in the game, yes it is. Muting them keeps you from being able to know what's being said if they try to build plans or relay information about enemy movements or ward placements.

EffectFX1 votes

If your team is being douchebags then you're not getting any relevant information in the first place. Inform your team you're muting them, and that if they wish to communicate they need to do it through pings. So no, players should never be allowed to afk unpunished.

Cale0171 votes

Sooo what, they just don't ping at all, leaving me without any means of communication?

Great plan. Really swell. Right on the money. Especially when they already made it clear I'm not to go into teamfights where they are.

When I can walk towards one and Kalista turns to throw a spear at me, I'm going to just not even bother.

EffectFX1 votes

Then congratulations, because they didn't have any relevant communications in the first place you can play without distraction.

It is. Yup. Yup. Just play the game.

Why does this matter? The spear can't hurt you.

Cale0171 votes

It's the meaning behind the throw. And the fact that I couldn't head in their direction without having danger pings thrown at me, the only sort of communication they were willing to allow when it came to interacting with me.

It's like I was in high school trying to find a place to eat in the cafeteria all over haha

Tentacle Love1 votes

The reason that players get warnings isn't to allow you to be a douche every once in a while. It's to make sure there's a bit of leeway in place so that in circumstances like this or others like it, you don't get punished for something beyond your control.

Did you just get stabbed? Go ahead and afk out, get to a hospital, get some treatment, and try to avoid the person that did the stabbing in the future. No game is worth your life. Same applies to having to eat to avoid starvation or having to take your meds. LoL should not be priority #1.

Is your girlfriend/wife pregnant? Are YOU pregnant? Go ahead and afk out. some things don't wait.

Are the cops breaking down your door? FOR THE LOVE OF CRAP KEEP YOURSELF SAFE! Hide, run, hug the floor, do whatever you have to do but DO NOT tell them to wait until the nexus goes down they WILL PROBABLY KILL YOU. This is 50 times more important if you are dark skinned, or if your room is dark and you look dark skinned. God help you if they look on your screen and see Lucian.

If you are being harassed and assaulted in game, you are literally being hurt, and you should focus on your personal health. You can always appeal the decision later on even if it DOES go to the point where you get banned. And if you're running into games like this on a regular basis, perhaps a short break from LoL will help your body's health.

Cale0171 votes

The fact that people can still get banned for things that are beyond their control, or are detrimental to them in some cases, is just wrong though. LoL SHOULDN'T be priority #1, especially over the concept of being treated decently by the people you're playing with. You're a person first and a player second. The warnings are fine, but they should be given out after there's an offense.

If I leave work because there's an emergency, they ask me what happened when I next come in before they write me up for it. Why? Because they understand that it's life, things happen, or maybe for whatever reason you just weren't mentally prepared for work that day. It's happened to plenty of people before, where you just DON'T have the mental faculties to handle the responsibilities of your position.

You're given a warning if you do it too much, but you aren't guilty before proven innocent.

So then why does Riot punish before listening to the plea? You give someone a warning when they've done something wrong. Since when did getting out of a negative situation entail fault on the part of the person removing themselves? That's just basic life advice: if you're in a bad place, get out of it.

Tsunday1 votes

where they're being abused.

Leona wasn't abusing you, Fizz as you said was bad but he wasn't abusing you (in fact you mentioned not knowing Rumble and that you might be bad with him you can't complain that somebody else isn't pro on their champion), Rengar was again bad and maybe not the most helpful yet you criticized him first so you can't really be surprised when he gets on your back for bitching. The only person who seems to be verbally abusing you is Kalista, who didn't seem to start until right about the time you left and would have easily been muted.

You make a board acting like you've been abused by your whole team, write a huge wall of text that has nothing to do with being abused by your team (I got a kill! Oh no Fizz died again) until pretty much the very end and then you're like 'yeah I have 1 toxic teammate so I should have been allowed to ruin the game for my other teammates'.

How about no?

Cale0171 votes

Not knowing a champion and building them entirely wrong while having zero situational awareness are two different things. And honestly the only thing I have a hard time with Rumble with is the very early game trying to keep CS up. After I get a few points in my Q I'm just fine, hence my lead early on. I'm bad with last hitting with him, but as far as the champion mechanics go he's not that difficult so long as you're careful about managing the heat. My only issue is trying to CS against a heavily aggressive enemy laner.

I didn't criticize him in a negative way. When he completely missed a smite I warned him that it helps to hit Zac's blobs while they're just coming out so you can take at least one out right away and not risk missing smite to a minion. When I noticed his build, having plenty of Rengar experience myself, I tried asking him what he was going for with it. Not in a hostile manner, I was just curious to see if there was something he was trying out.

Both Rengar and Kalista were being abusive, and so far as I'm concerned with Fizz being anything but helpful while ignoring advice not to go into areas that get him killed, and Leona saying nothing but completely ditching me at one point, it was pretty clear where I stood with them. And either way, it shouldn't matter how many people are being abusive when everyone on the team is acting like it.

I never said I was being abused by the whole team. But being abused by even one member isn't right for anyone to have to deal with even if it were only one person.

Fizz was an idiot, and unhelpful. So far as I'm concerned he was intentionally feeding when he was walking right into areas where you could see two enemy champions just were.

Leona wasn't saying anything, but her actions made it clear that she didn't want me there.

Rengar and Kalista were both being abusive, so good job on paying attention for that one. Sorry but when I ask for a gank, I'm at low health, but I have the enemy in prime ganking real estate and THEY'RE at low health too, but your response is "No I need blue" on a champion who doesn't even have mana, and then try to say I'm feeding? That's abusive.

I didn't need to do anything to ruin the game for my teammates. The game was already ruined with their ADC fed, their mid fed, their top fed, their jungle fed, even their SUPPORT was fed. The game was already ruined. Me leaving just saved me having to listen to two people spamming danger pings anytime I tried to group up with them under our own turrets and was standing right next to them, watching Fizz walking through the enemy jungle alone, and seeing Leona palling around with her feeding Kalista in all cases instead of going where she could possibly be more help.

There are more ways to be abusive than just verbally, although 1/2 of the other members of my team were still filling that role well until Rengar didn't even bother to try and use the chat feature any further.

How about you don't assume what happened or at what points in time it was happening?

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