Stop Trash-Talking Junglers

Kewlipo·Jul 5, 2016·3 votes·1,095 views

Going to just bullet the story.

'>be me, Darius top '>3/0/0, slayed enemy top 2 times and jungle one time in a failed gank '>Mid lane 0/2/0, ADC lane 0/3/0, jg 0/0/0 '>Mid and ADC gang up on jg, calling him trash for not ganking, blaming him for their terrible laning '>Holy shit I'm tired of this '>Go balls to the wall defending this jg '>Call them both out for 0 wards '>Call them both out for getting caught '>Supp says, "wow I can see the duo" (saying I am duo with jg) '>Now ADC, Sup, and Mid are flaming jg and I '>20 minutes later '>Mid catches up in kills and gold (of course inflating their ego) '>Mid gets caught, enemy gets baron, enemy gets mid tower '>Game eventually ends with a teamfight at elder dragon '>Mid doesn't even fight, was typing in an argument with Jg '>Lose game

Moral of the story: Don't blame the Jungler for being terrible at laning

22 Comments

DraaaaaavéééééénJul 5, 20162 votes

Um no, i trash talk them when they call me a feeder while i'm getting camped and they never ganked.

BluePolarizerJul 5, 20162 votes

no, too many laners think they are getting camped when they are not. I just had a gold 5 border shen in a mid-plat game say that he was getting "camped" when the enemy Hecarim had 1 assist from mid lane, and I was destroying the rest of the map including mid. All you need to do is stop playing aggressive, play extremely defensively and wait for ganks. That's it. Nothing else. If you continue to play aggressively after I have told you to either play defensively or roam elsewhere, I will assume you are either 1.) unwilling to win the game 2.) unable to comprehend simple instructions. Both situations mean that I will not devote too many resources to you.

If you play defensively+wait for ganks or roam elsewhere, you might get carried. Keep playing aggressively, and you'll become too heavy to carry and lose the game. It's that simple.

DraaaaaavéééééénJul 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

no, too many laners think they are getting camped when they are not. I just had a gold 5 border shen in a mid-plat game say that he was getting "camped" when the enemy Hecarim had 1 assist from mid lane, and I was destroying the rest of the map including mid. All you need to do is stop playing aggressive, play extremely defensively and wait for ganks. That's it. Nothing else. If you continue to play aggressively after I have told you to either play defensively or roam elsewhere, I will assume you are either 1.) unwilling to win the game 2.) unable to comprehend simple instructions. Both situations mean that I will not devote too many resources to you.

If you play defensively+wait for ganks or roam elsewhere, you might get carried. Keep playing aggressively, and you'll become too heavy to carry and lose the game. It's that simple.

Getting ganked 4-6 times and getting 0 ganks is means getting camped right?, btw i know people blame "omfg i'm getting camped why is this jungler not helping me" while they got ganked 2 times. and if you didnt read it completly i said i trash talk them when they call me a FEEDER. so yea

BluePolarizerJul 5, 20161 votes

no, if you get ganked 4-6 times and you get 0 ganks, but the jungler makes plays elsewhere, it means that you need to stop playing aggressively, give up tower if necessary, farm back or roam elsewhere and allow yourself to get carried. That's all. Literally that's all you need to do sometimes. Just stop the bleeding.

Let's turn this around. What if your jungler gets invaded and solo killed by Shaco, is behind, but keeps trying to come to your lane to make plays or solo invade enemy jungle, and feeds? You'd be pissed too right? But see that's exactly what laners do all the time. They feed a Darius, and instead of using their brain and thinking "man Darius is strong I better farm" they'll start autoing him again.

DraaaaaavéééééénJul 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

no, if you get ganked 4-6 times and you get 0 ganks, but the jungler makes plays elsewhere, it means that you need to stop playing aggressively, give up tower if necessary, farm back or roam elsewhere and allow yourself to get carried. That's all. Literally that's all you need to do sometimes. Just stop the bleeding.

I Do roam,i get the adc double kill and i tank the turret, then they talk shit to me and tell me to stay in lane, btw can we stop this?

RabblerouserJul 5, 20161 votes

Stop trash-talking/abusing EVERYONE. Not just junglers. Not just supports. EVERYONE.
Stop thinking about just yourself. This applies to not just tops. Not just junglers, Not just ADCs. EVERYONE.
Remember this is a game that is becoming more and more TEAM-focused. Lessening your teammates lessens yourself.
Relevant to this thread of comments: NOT EVERY SITUATION IS YOUR OWN. I'm seeing both sides here expecting different things about "camped" lanes.

DraaaaaavéééééénJul 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Stop trash-talking/abusing EVERYONE. Not just junglers. Not just supports. EVERYONE.

Stop thinking about just yourself. This applies to not just tops. Not just junglers, Not just ADCs. EVERYONE.

Remember this is a game that is becoming more and more TEAM-focused. Lessening your teammates lessens yourself.

Relevant to this thread of comments: NOT EVERY SITUATION IS YOUR OWN. I'm seeing both sides here expecting different things about "camped" lanes.

what?

The Last BalladJul 6, 20161 votes

I think he was listing the various arguments that have happened over the course of this post collection.

RabblerouserJul 5, 20162 votes

That took my respect for the original post and threw it out. It also kinda threw out the "I'm a top defending the jungle role" selfless act to now being more "I'm a jungler defending my own role". While jungler abuse needs to stop (all abuse needs to stop, honestly), people seem to miss out on a lot of the little cogs that make matches win or lose.

Yes, people complain they're getting camped when they're not. But that doesn't mean everyone that says they says so isn't. I've had games where I'm top and get zero ganks throughout the entire game no matter how good or bad I'm doing.

It's a bit of a stereotype that junglers don't care about top.

Also... "get carried"? Lots of people want to BE the carry. Maybe not even do that but just dominate their lane, which is where jungle pressure comes in. Every lane wants jungle assistance so they can get ahead of their laners, top included. Playing defensively with zero ganks isn't fun, they want that extra nudge to put them ahead of their laner.

BluePolarizerJul 5, 20161 votes

guess what's REALLY fun? winning the game. if it costs 2 other lanes and objectives just so that you might have a tiny chance to carry, is it worth it? what about the fun of 4 others on your team?

RabblerouserJul 5, 20161 votes

Trust me, I know. I main support. But if you read, you'll notice I mention it's the same even if they don't expect to carry, but just want to win lane. If you're behind in a solo lane, it begins to feel like absolute hell if you never get any sliver of help.

I'm not even disagreeing about playing defensively. You should if you're behind. And some cases, that gap is just going to widen as the enemy top gets access to more damage/items they can use to keep your ally top off of farm. They get free damage, make sure the enemy stays behind. If you're in that for minutes on end with no help, it feels worse from my experience than the jungle hate (which I agree should never happen in the first place). Because jungle has more tools to turn around.

BluePolarizerJul 5, 20161 votes

no, I only give a fuck about winning the game. I play top lane as well. If I am feeding, I tell the jungler to never ever fucking go near my lane. Why? They're wasting their time and mine. Even if I get the kill, so what? All I'm doing is resetting my gold. Why the fuck would I want to make myself worth gold again, put a target on my back, and get camped even harder? I don't.

I've been camped for 20 minutes, yes, 20 fucking minutes as Malphite top, when the enemy was Vlad so it was already a mismatch. They dived me between inner and inhib tower. I died so much, I wasn't even worth gold anymore. But do I give a fuck? No, because while they're wasting time killing a Malphite worth only 100 gold that only needs Ninja Tabi, Spectral Cowl, Glacial Shroud and Sunfire Cape to be a threat, my actual carry lanes are snowballing thanks to the rest of the map being a 4v3. And that's fun to me. Winning through using my brain, not through KDA or shit like that.

KewlipoJul 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

That took my respect for the original post and threw it out. It also kinda threw out the "I'm a top defending the jungle role" selfless act to now being more "I'm a jungler defending my own role". While jungler abuse needs to stop (all abuse needs to stop, honestly), people seem to miss out on a lot of the little cogs that make matches win or lose.

Yes, people complain they're getting camped when they're not. But that doesn't mean everyone that says they says so isn't. I've had games where I'm top and get zero ganks throughout the entire game no matter how good or bad I'm doing.

It's a bit of a stereotype that junglers don't care about top.

Also... "get carried"? Lots of people want to BE the carry. Maybe not even do that but just dominate their lane, which is where jungle pressure comes in. Every lane wants jungle assistance so they can get ahead of their laners, top included. Playing defensively with zero ganks isn't fun, they want that extra nudge to put them ahead of their laner.

What lost your respect for the original post? If you were referring to me, I was top lane, and I was defending the jungle, and haven't posted another comment until now. Maybe you confused me with someone else.

PSA + wake up call for laners: You are NOT entitled to ganks. Jungle SHOULD try to help you out, but if they don't, do not rant about it. You're not entitled to help. Ward and play passively if the enemy jungler is being proactive.

litocowJul 5, 20161 votes

u ever think if u set up a ward in the jg and gank that jg bout 2 times.... it wont be able to camp u???? i dont know maybe when its red or blue is about to pop up???? would be alot easier if its red and u got bottom mid and a jg vs there one jg.... and that would make bottom push to ur tower where u then maybe be able to pick up more kills there..... but no i guess crying at ur tower and being toxic well make ur jg get some extra powers to somehow help ur losing lane..... as a jg main... it is better to not help a losing lane and snowball a winning one... so if ur losing ur lane tower hug and try to gank other lanes ie mid or jg.. first tower should mean so much u ppl would die for it which is kind of dumb... u feel ur gonna lose bottom tower... and u know u cant defened it and ur gonna die just go rush mid tower.. tower for tower then to try and d it lose it and die and cry also if they take tower to early it kind of helps ur adc farm taking mid tower early or top is alot better

FioraWillCarryJul 5, 20161 votes

Hear hear. Preach it bro!!

RabblerouserJul 5, 20161 votes

Agreed.

I only rage at the jungler when this Jax sits in a bush while my bot lane engages the piss out of the enemy. He waits until they're a sneeze away from death and nets a doublekill.

No. You're not "helping". You're starving a teammate who needs those kills more than you while you made zero effort and contributed absolutely nothing to the fight save for the killing blow.

Sad part is I'm seeing this more and more lately. Once with that Jax, once with a Sej, again with a Zac. Junglers afraid of making any risk at all despite having tools to deal with aggression. Those are the ones that enrage me.

BluePolarizerJul 5, 20161 votes

It depends. If the jungler is an engage tank, play DEFENSIVELY, draw them out and bait. If the jungler is an assassin, then you should engage. It is extremely simple. I do not understand why laners find this hard. Whenever I lane, I always think - if I was the jungler, how do I make my lane more attractive to gank? and then I do it. Warding, pinging mias, calling sums/ults, talking - this is the shit that works, and it gets ganks and wins games. If you don't do it? NP but why are you expecting miracles?

All you need to do sometimes is sit back and get carried.

JetjoeJul 5, 20161 votes

The jungles job is to

Farm

Place atleast one pink somewhere in the enemy jungle to help team know where he is.

Gank lanes which have been poked down somewhat.

Secure kills

Tip the scale of kills over.

Unless your laner is dead 100% countered, you can make a positive difference by helping them win the trades early game. If your jungler failed to gank early on he deserves the trash talk. A junglers job is to maintain full control over the map and get objectives.

I played a game as Blitzcrank support for Sivir and our jungler was Sion . After we killed their lane about 15 times in 10 minutes sivir went to roam. I was able to kill them on my own but I would ask for sions help (free kills), and he found farmiing golems more important.

dont play jungle if you cant carry the game, because the jungles job is to carry the shit out of games.

litocowJul 5, 20161 votes

ummm everyone job is to have one pink on the map at all times.... as a jg i would put it at my red or the river from top to mid

JetjoeJul 5, 20161 votes

I can agree with red, I would not place one in the river from top to mid because you can scuttle those areas or use a non pink ward there that wont get deleted as easily.

I still typically put my Pink in their side of the jungle so that we can see if he is on their half, because between me getting scuttle, smiting my wolves, being in my own half of the jungle, having one half pinked, the other normally warded, we have a good chance of spotting the enemy jungler at all times

The Last BalladJul 6, 20161 votes

The amount of times I have placed a pink at the river bush by dragon, only to have the enemy ignore it completely(even after walking into the bush multiple times) leads me to believe that it is rather a hit or miss place to put the pink. It really depends on the enemy's intelligence.

litocowJul 5, 20161 votes

life of a jg they invade u no one comes... u ping dragon no one comes... they lose lane ur fault... there lanes is warded so u cant really gank ur fault go buy a pink for them they push to far up when ur near ur fault or not camping to wait for a good chance.... ALL day blame the jg..... mostly crappy spot sometimes.... u want ur jg to gank watch where hes farming not hard top or bottom if hes on ur side and u want help counter the wards for him while u counter the ward the lane is gonna get pushed back to ur side.. help him set it up cuz after after its ur lane and ur asking for help so u should kind of set it up then cry for the jg to come and carry u... unless ur top then jg should smite creeps to counter the ward for u... and if u guys feel u cant gank or their jg is camping ur lane guess what GET A WARD IN THERE JG and gank there jg _ OH NO DID SOMEONE just say gank there jg maybe once or twice if u feel u cant gank ur lane???? then that jg wont be able to camp u guys and then ur jg have the upper hand to camp ur losing lane.. in the end jg cant win ur lane for u he can HELP u but no one wants to help a person that wont help themself... also sometimes understand if ur mid lane and u dont have a stun and ur jg dont have a stun that it like fucking zed or lux and ur like a dumb ass kog mog or some dumb pick like that or yi mid dude just stay quite and pay u dont feed or!!!!!! set up ganks in there jg.... then blame the jg cuz mostly the jg cant do shit for ur lane and would just help u feed it.. ur best option is to gank alot.. IN THE END ur lane is really ur problem.... and 95 percent of u bronze and silver players wouldnt help a jg at lvl 2 if the other jg came to try and steal and blue or red but so fast to blame the jg if they dont help u.... which i find so dumb... mostly played dont wanna counter ward or wanna help the jg,, over push lanes but expects jg to help..... and trust me if u dont help the jg leech at the start when hes near ur lane just dont even ask for help even if i could help u mostly i wouldnt rather go help mid or the other lane cuz ur just a dick of a person.