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Sion is disgustingly under powered!!! In his main role top

Karoloooo··4 votes·2,573 views

The nerfs where so unnecessary. He needed buffs not nerfs. The reason why everyone used to take only comet on sion was because it was impossible to win fights melee, he had to long range poke...now devs took all long range poke damage from him.

Sion is right now the worst champion in the game. He has no tankiness early so he cannot touch minions, he cannot stack, that means his hp will be low, he does no long range damage, he can't cc anyone because every champion has instant knock ups or dashes. Sion's passive is useless because every champion has super mobility! His ult is useless because it's the hardest ult to hit in the game!! It has high damage but you miss most of your ults anyways. His 'q' is useless because every champion stops it instantly or makes you easier to hit. His 'e' sucks!! It does no damage and it's armor reduction doesn't help you one bit in lane. His 'w' is pretty bad. It can be only used when shield is up, but when enemy engages you they will always pop it, even if you are maxing it. All they have to do is engage, use 1 or 2 abilities and they countered your whole spell.

This is completely unfair. Sion needs a buff or change. He desperately needs it, I don't understand how these nerfs could be approved.

37 Comments

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

  • Sion's problem was being a beefy tank but acts like a ranged poke mage, which doesn't suit his theme at all.

  • He has Bone Plating & W to stop incoming damages, that's your definition of "early tankiness".

  • Sion's kit is all about setting up his combos. Throwing an E slows the enemy opponent, and then charge up Q for the maximum damage. Know that you don't have to fully charge up your Q, so just release it when the enemy laner is about to go out of your Q boundary.

  • Armor reduction on the minion-projectile minion rather than a single target face-first is actually a lot more beneficial than you think. Similar to Garen's case, he can now aim to reduce more than 1 champion's Armor to deal damage with all of his physical AoE abilities.

  • You're not old Galio where you can permanently put up your W & make it act as your permanent guardian angel. You're suppose to time your W right in between taking certain amount of damage & knowing when to pop it, especially when you can increase your W uptime by constantly cc'ing your opponent.

Karoloooo2 votes

Yes I know about his problem, he needed a change not a nerf...the nerf just made him the worst champion.

Yeah 'w' that stops one auto attack and uses brutal mana...that's his tankiness. He got no base tankiness, his base stats are bad. Bone plating rune helps, sure, but other champions have runes too, that deal extreme damage.

Every champion is about combos...Sion's combo is the worse in the game. You toss an 'e' which does pretty much 0 damage, start to use 'q' and then the enemy immediately engages on you, if you can release it earlier than they engage...the armor reduction will increase damage by approx 5. You deal 5 more damage with your 'q', wow. Nothing compared to the 21 damage reduction from one ability, also 'q' got nerfed by a small bit.

Sion's 'w' is terrible. Yes I know how to use it, in your dreams you nicely time your abilities, but in game every champion has mobility, spamming abilities, your 'w' will get popped in a second or you won't be able to use it on a champion because they won't run into it.

Bijeesny1 votes

{quoted}

  • Sion's problem was being a beefy tank but acts like a ranged poke mage, which doesn't suit his theme at all.

You have a point here

  • He has Bone Plating & W to stop incoming damages, that's your definition of "early tankiness".

Soooo in order to survive the lane he needs to rely on certain runes... that's... not good.

  • Sion's kit is all about setting up his combos. Throwing an E slows the enemy opponent, and then charge up Q for the maximum damage. Know that you don't have to fully charge up your Q, so just release it when the enemy laner is about to go out of your Q boundary.

Except most champions right now have some sort of cc and/or escape ability sou you setting up combo is really hard, and in order to do maximum amount of damage you NEED to charge up Q as much as you can, otherwise, it's not worth the amount of mana you spend.

  • Armor reduction on the minion-projectile minion rather than a single target face-first is actually a lot more beneficial than you think. Similar to Garen's case, he can now aim to reduce more than 1 champion's Armor to deal damage with all of his physical AoE abilities.

Except Garen can stick up to opponent a little bit better than Sion, considering he has a silence and move speed buff on his Q to disable an enemy from using escape abilities (if they didn't already used it)

  • You're not old Galio where you can permanently put up your W & make it act as your permanent guardian angel. You're suppose to time your W right in between taking certain amount of damage & knowing when to pop it, especially when you can increase your W uptime by constantly cc'ing your opponent.

A lot of champions can pop your shield before you can activate the dmg part, but you're right, he can block some abilitie's dmg at least

PhDs Nuts1 votes

{quoted}

Soooo in order to survive the lane he needs to rely on certain runes... that's... not good.

That's how Riot's been balancing the game since Runes Reforged was released.

Bijeesny1 votes

{quoted}

That's how Riot's been balancing the game since Runes Reforged was released.

But that's dumb af. Didn't they said that the goal of new runes is to create some diversity, which old runes apparently didn't have?

MrHaZeYo1 votes

Worst champ in the game seems pretty inaccurate.

Karoloooo1 votes

Every top laner decimates him...that's not good, that's terrible.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Teemo Illaoi Gangplank Jayce Malphite Except these.

Karoloooo2 votes

I don't get where you got that info from...

Sion's long range damage got nerfed incredibly hard, hardest nerf I've ever seen, no other champion gets that nerfed (his q damage decreased by a small bit.. and his 'e' dmg at level 1 decreased by 21 damage! and It gets nerfed even more on higher levels).

He pretty much can't damage teemo, same with illaoi, gangplank. Not sure where you get the info that he can lane against these champions. Malphites ult is easier and better than Sion's, if you want to fight him you can only damage him with your 'w'.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Yeah, just like the info of you claiming Sion being the worst champion.

His E nerf was justified since depending on his E for that long ranged poke is just unhealthy. Coupling the Armor Reduction alongside his Q can seriously damage his lane opponents really well. Reasons I picked the champions above was mainly because none of them have some sort of spam-dashes like Riven & Yasuo to swiftly dodge his skillshots.

I've already have 200k Mastery points & experience on Sion to know how his kit works & experienced the damage I dealt to certain lane opponents, what I guarantee is that he is definitely not considered the "worst" champion in League. Otherwise, LCS might as well pick Teemo or Tryndamere.

Karoloooo1 votes

Yes but that's the only thing he could do...long range poke or short trade. His stats and abilities weren't good enough to actually fight.

Ok and I have almost 1 million points on Sion with my accounts combined. Like I know the guy fairly well too. I try not to copy off and I create my own strategies but he just sucks. Nothing works.

LCS teams picks champions for their strategies. Not whats powerful. In solo queue everyone picks the most oppressive champion and Sion always loses to that.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

The Sion in my last game did pretty well against a Jax, and the Jax was statistically better (rank wise). Sion is a good teamfight tank, he doesn't need to shit on his lane opponents, he'll be useful up or down, long as he comes out of lane not feeding, he'll be ok.

Karoloooo1 votes

He is not good in team fights either...like tell me what can you do against irellia, camille, cho gath, malphite, riven, etc. Who just insta fly past you, you can't even catch up with them. While you charge your 'q' they are miles away. Kill your carry in 2 seconds...Sion running around like a dumbo, everyone running past him without fear because he does no damage.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

Cho'Gath just insta flys by you?

Sion would actually work well in a frontline battle vs Cho, he has what 3 slows (1 could be a knock up) and his ult lol.

I mean you just picked 3 divers/skrimers and Malph who happens to have a unstoppable ult dash. Sion in a teamfight vs like Mao, Cho, Darius, Garen, Trundle, or any other non moblie champion would work just fine.

Sion may not be the best top laner in this meta, but he also isn't the worst champion in League,

Karoloooo1 votes

Cho just gets the Righteous Glory item and he turns into sanic. Like yeah your are right, you can slow him, but don't forget...while you all focus just this single guy who can assassinate anyone for whatever reason...he got his whole team too.

Everyone picks overpowered champions right now with extreme mobility. You know, the ones you have or gets banned every game. Sion cannot do anything against them in lane or late game.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

It doesn't work that like that, seeing how the slow will burst on Sion, Then Cho just becomes kiteable again.

  1. I rarely see Riven anymore
  2. Everyone has always picked the OP picks, which was Sion for a bit and why he got nerfed.

Cho is no better in this meta then Sion tbh and honestly with the likes of Crit ADs and even ADs outside of Kai and Luc far weaker, tanks actually fair far better now then last patch.

Edit: I was curious to see where Sion top really was at in the tier system. according to LA he sits in the Diamond Tier 2 , or Tier 3, (2 but they don't count Challenger tier as T1, I do). https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/tierlist/

He is sitting at a 50.6% win rate in Plat+ Solo Queue, and his "mains" have a 56.4% from the top lane.

Karoloooo1 votes

Sion was average before the nerf, not op.

Champion tiers say nothing, for example apparently galio, kassadin, ryze is bad tier. They are very powerful champions.

The win rate doesn't have to come from solo queue.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

The site tracks champions based on solo queue performance, and that's over the last 7 days, so Sion has a winning top lane win loss record, and it's very high for his mains, meaning people are still climbing past Plat 5 with Sion.

Sion was a pretty solid champion pre nerf and he's still a solid champion post nerf.

Ryze is a awful champion in solo queue right now, he, Kalista, and Azir all got gutted to make them that way, do you not read patch notes and PBE things?

Kassadin was struggling so he got a buff in the last patch or the patch before and he's still struggling, but most that is due to how strong lane bullys are in a meta where the average game time is 24 mins, that's not enough time for him to come online.

Karoloooo1 votes

They got nerfed, but still nothing compared to Sions nerfs. Brutal.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

I'd say their nerfs were way harsher then Sion nerfs. Sion is still in a decent spot, they are not.

FireDrizzle1 votes

{quoted}

Cho'Gath just insta flys by you?

Sion would actually work well in a frontline battle vs Cho, he has what 3 slows (1 could be a knock up) and his ult lol.

I mean you just picked 3 divers/skrimers and Malph who happens to have a unstoppable ult dash. Sion in a teamfight vs like Mao, Cho, Darius, Garen, Trundle, or any other non moblie champion would work just fine.

Sion may not be the best top laner in this meta, but he also isn't the worst champion in League,

Cho can silence and Knockup SIon out of his Q, and in a brawl Cho will win due to max hp on his E an true damage R. Don't agree that he is the absolute worst champ but what you said is nonsense honestly.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

Except we're talking about teamfighting, not 1v1.

FireDrizzle1 votes

{quoted}

Except we're talking about teamfighting, not 1v1.

But you did say frontline battle and Cho is obviously more of a problem to Sion than the reverse.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

I more meant that the two of them are basically trying to stop the other from making it to the back line, in a 1v1 I'd imagine Cho to win, but it's not like it would be quick.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

Won't Atma's make him a fucking god when it comes out though?

Karoloooo1 votes

If you have 3k hp, you'll deal 45 bonus damage....wow, that will make him a god lol. But the item is pretty nice.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

{quoted}

If you have 3k hp, you'll deal 45 bonus damage....wow, that will make him a god lol. But the item is pretty nice.

I mean.

item 3748 (Atma's) item 3083 item 3022 item 3071 item 3800 sounds pretty good broken to me.

Karoloooo1 votes

Yes on a lot of champions, not Sion.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

{quoted}

Yes on a lot of champions, not Sion.

How come it isn't good on Sion?

Karoloooo1 votes

He doesn't auto often...and he has mixed damage.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

{quoted}

He doesn't auto often...and he has mixed damage.

He sure does auto a lot when he dies though.

Meep Man1 votes

Atma's isn't being added for an unforeseen amount of time.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emperor Churger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M2xwF3Na,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2018-06-12T21:05:22.040+0000)

Atma's isn't being added for an unforeseen amount of time.

Sadly.

Spoofghoul1 votes

What sion needs is simple

Stats wise: 5/hp level to highest hp/5 of all champs at 18 makes damage stick a little easier early to compensate for the Q buff and past lanin phase your regen will actually get better then it is right now and scale with your hp

Q: rather then starting at 33% damage -100% over 2 seconds charging it needs to go to 40-100% over 2 seconds Ranking the ability up makes it's damage towards minions go from 33% to 67% so it deal as much to minions as it does to monsters makes the whole thing more reliable in lane and for farming

W damage now scales with sion's health and the damage cap vs minions and monsters removed since it's no longer needed helps sion scale and make up for lost damage past 20 minutes where his decline sets in, provided you actually made something of your earlygame

There Sion is now fixed

Now Q max is more viable in lane and in plenty of match-ups more preferable as well Sion can potentially scale past 20 minutes if he doesn't fuck up his lane No more tripple bead cheese derp sustain but you can now actually regenerate health half decent later into the game

Most of this is numbers work only so they can add it in next patch It's not rocket science why everyone maxes E, it's more reliable so all riot needed to add after the recent changes was more reliability to the Q With the loss of overall damage throughout the game Sion would need some compensation there so W would fit there as it provides some very basic counterplay, kill the shield, stay out of it's range/disengage or you know win lane and zone him. the potential scaling makes up for his very mediocre early game, Sion needs some reward to counteract the risk of playing him. right now you really have to outperform your opponent and if you do you fall off like a brick anyway fun stuff really

Meep Man1 votes

This sounds like either your new to him or were used to almost relying solely on the value of his E poke to win before to be honest.

Karoloooo1 votes

Play him in higher ranks and you'll see how trash he is.

Spoofghoul1 votes

What sion needs is simple

Stats wise: 5/hp level to highest hp/5 of all champs at 18 makes damage stick a little easier early to compensate for the Q buff and past lanin phase your regen will actually get better then it is right now and scale with your hp

Q: rather then starting at 33% damage -100% over 2 seconds charging it needs to go to 40-100% over 2 seconds Ranking the ability up makes it's damage towards minions go from 33% to 67% so it deal as much to minions as it does to monsters makes the whole thing more reliable in lane and for farming

W damage now scales with sion's health and the damage cap vs minions and monsters removed since it's no longer needed helps sion scale and make up for lost damage past 20 minutes where his decline sets in, provided you actually made something of your earlygame

There Sion is now fixed

Now Q max is more viable in lane and in plenty of match-ups more preferable as well Sion can potentially scale past 20 minutes if he doesn't fuck up his lane No more tripple bead cheese derp sustain but you can now actually regenerate health half decent later into the game

Most of this is numbers work only so they can add it in next patch It's not rocket science why everyone maxes E, it's more reliable so all riot needed to add after the recent changes was more reliability to the Q With the loss of overall damage throughout the game Sion would need some compensation there so W would fit there as it provides some very basic counterplay, kill the shield, stay out of it's range/disengage or you know win lane and zone him. the potential scaling makes up for his very mediocre early game, Sion needs some reward to counteract the risk of playing him. right now you really have to outperform your opponent and if you do you fall off like a brick anyway fun stuff really

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