Master Yi is fucking stupid right now. He goes 0/6 in jg and then 5 minutes later proceeds to 100-0 everyone on my team in 2 seconds doing 700+ true damage. How is this champ fair to play against again? He literally has no counterplay if your team misses their hard CC and is way more of a stat check than old Aatrox ever was. [sg-lux-2]
MrHaZeYo13 votesHe literally has no counterplay if your team misses their hard CC
See, he has counterplay lol.
La Bello42 voteswhen will people realize "just CC him" is a bogus argument.
getting CC'd to death is incredibly unfun and not a type of "counterplay" you should look to reinforce or support.
This is LEAGUE not Dota2. We actually try to have fun here and frankly LITERALLY BEING UNABLE TO PLAY THE GAME UNTIL YOU DIE. is the epitome of unfun.
nobody pretends like this guy is a paragon of good game design so why pretend like what he DOES is good for the game?
Im so sick and tired of seeing these 4Head level arguments.
"just CC him" AKA: Just unplug his controller bro. He cant beat you if he cant even play the game lul. Get outplayed!
**"just dont let him get farm" **AKA: Spend the entire game focusing all your attention on him so neither of you get to play league properly. ya know cuz thats totally super fun for BOTH parties. Him getting camped and you being unable to do anything else helpful on the map. lets ignore that by sheer game design you are only delaying the inevitable anyway
**"just end the game before late game" **AKA: having champions with a 90% chance to autowin after X items is fantastic design and definitely not some shitty Dota2 game design philosophy that shoulda been dropped years ago
"just ban him" AKA: Literally dont even let him get picked because the champ is bullshit
"Just pick Y champion " AKA: Dont play what YOU want to play and have fun. Your next 20-40 minutes will be dictated by what your opponent picks. Love it when champions get to hold fun hostage like this enforcing rigid pool of reactionary picks. Its like im really playing in the LCS!
"just kite him" AKA: Melee champs? wtf are those?
these are the absolute WORST kinds of counterplays or arguments you can try to make and people need to stop regurgitating these kind of excuses in an attempt to validate their favorite bad champ designs. the only other thing that pisses me off more is when people point to winrates or pickrates as if those are the grand arbiter of balance and fun. People incapable of understanding that sometimes designs can be low winrate but still annoying and unfun as fuck all.
"Oh you think Teemom is annoying to play against? well LOOK he has a 50% winrate so that means he aint OP bro"- person with room temp IQ
Guzergus2 votesYour idea of fun sounds good on paper, but I doubt it's possible to have such game in real life. You'd have to come up with champions which are fun to play as and are not frustrating to play against. Have you ever seen a popular champion which isn't considered 'toxic'? I doubt it.
Overall, you sound as if you should play normals and not ranked. Your ideal fun cannot and will never be achieved in a competitive environment.
Also, I don't get all the dota remarks. I play dota and it's incredibly fun (and much more slow paced than current lol). Do you truly believe you should be able to pick any hero in any situation and achieve equal performance? How is that possible?
Jerry SeinfeId6 votesGetting cc'd to death will keep existing as long as CC exists, that's just how it workd. You're never gonna get rid of it so it's honestly decent counterplay.
Yi is a champ that needs to get into melee range while (often) being squishy, so the best way to beat him is to kill him before he arrives.
To achieve your idea of fun we'd have to remove all the cc and anything that's targeted so everything can be dodged and the one who lands the most shit wins. aside from that every champ should work exactly the same AND deal exactly as much dmg as the other one while every item in the game gives the same stats. Idk bout you but that honestly doesn't seem interesting to me, kinda sounds like a boring shooter game to me.
You don't offer any alternatives that coold be added to the game but pretty much talk shit on every single counterplay option people have against most champs.
cc
CCing him locks him (a mobile damage champ) in place and gives your team easy access to him. In late game CC often means death for squishies so it's not unique to him.
just dont let him get farm
That's never gonna work 100% but making it harder for your opponent to get the items they want is a good thing as you are beating your opponent in a game mechanic. That's like saying it's unfair i won cuz i have 100 farm and my opponent 0 cuz he missed every single one of them in lane.
End before lategame
Champs have different points in time where they are good, some are good late but bad early and vice versa. If you get ahead while he's still weak you should try to end.
"just ban him"
If you really don't wanna learn to play vs him, don't play vs him.
Just pick Y champion Unless you play at the highest elo counter picks in general don't matter, especially not in the jungle. But if you're trying to 1v1 yi as let's say caitlyn the idk wtf you're even doing and expecting.
Different champs have different strengths so obviously Naut is gonna be a decent pick because he can lock him down with point and click CC, you or your team need to help him finish him off then. likewise Yi is gonna be good against some.
"just kite him" You have either hard CC to hold him down for your team, or you have the stats to deal with him at some point in the game where you can get your lead to beat him.
"Oh you think Teemom is annoying to play against? well LOOK he has a 50% winrate so that means he aint OP bro"- person with room temp IQ
IDC how much or little fun you're having vs teemo, there's plenty of Counterplay against him and he's not a strong champ. The fact you call people retarded for disagreeing with such a stupid statement is ridiculous.
Annoying isn't OP, every champ is annoying to someone.
So pleas either shut up and accept that CC is counterplay to champs or come up with new ways to counter EVERY squishy damage champ.
TheCodeisCupCake1 votesAs someone who played Dota2 in the past for 5 years and reached the Master their equivalent there (6.8k MMR). Dota2 is difficult but more fun than I've ever had in League for the last 2 years. League is fun, but Ardent meta into this shit assassin meta makes me wanna go back to Dota.
Disclaimer: I tried going back but I sucked too much ass and I'm not willing to relearn all of the components
FilDaFunk1 votesI see 2 options, cc them and kill them OR kill them faster than they kill you. One of them is damage creep, is that the one you prefer?
TempName548461 votesjust kill him 4head
ModAcademy Kayn1 votes
Ask the boards, and Old Malz was apparently A-okay, great design.
Moody P1 votes"why do I have to consider what I pick to overcome a champion? what is this, a strategy game?"
Kelg5 votesSee, he has counterplay lol.
Wow it's almost like hard CC is a counter to everything except Olaf and GP. [zombie-brand-clap]
MrHaZeYo2 votesWell any Tank would love to absorb the CC chain.
Most backliners aren't close enough to get CC'd unless you run past the frontline or flank, which usually means you're gonna die.
So yes CCing Yi is counterplay because he has to run straight at you, he's not positioned behind a meat shield (who usually have CC), he's also usually squishy AF.
hrooza dota 1 votesCC is not a good counter to a lot of champs like throw 200 CC in teamfights at 
and they would care less about it since their damage dealer is free to deal damage
while if you throw a single CC at a glass cannon like yi he gonna disappear in half a second
Rabbi Shekelberg1 votes-5 IQ
RyzeTheSmurfMage6 votesAaaand he is getting more buffs while Ryze is getting the 11th nerf in a row, both for no real reason.
Leyruh6 votesWhat should be alarming is that he's the easiest champion to get Pentakills with.
Pentakills should be something that requires skill, or perhaps the enemy team is too dumb and litteraly ints. I'd rather have the former though.
How many times have I seen Master Yi get Pentakills when he finally was able to buy his items. I've even seen one Master Yi get 2 Pentakills in one game.
Just rework him, and pay special attention for his Q. It's litteraly the most busted ability in all his kit.
Also, please work on his design. It's...urgh, it needs to be upgraded.
######What are those 7 lens on his face Rito.
Jamaree5 votesBecause the higher you go up, the lower play he sees.
KagureNai5 votesYi is weak early but can litterally 1v5 if he just gets the gold...which seems unfair if he has a shitty score.
The thing that makes this champion unhealthy for the game is one thing. His Q. A point and click BLINK that makes him UNTARGATABLE.
How much bullshit can you fit in one ability? There you have it. Old point and click abilities don't fit the version we know of League. Since League is constantly changing, its mechanics are evolving as well. Incuding new champions, and reworks.
When I talk about point and click, I mostly talk about specific ones. As in, ones that are straight up just unhealthy and that are ridiculous.
Point and click ( also known as "Unit targeted spells" ) can be either self-targeted, ally-targeted or ennemy targeted. ( also terrain targeted, but that only concerns 
and 
).
As of now, Yi's Q and Fiddlesticks Q and E are really problematic in my opinion. Also, Fiddlesticks has only point and click in his kit. There is definitely something to do about it. ( except his R )
Yi is given free damage and also free "i don't want to be hit by X thing so i'll use Q". And as the champion being targeted by his Q, there is no counterplay available. No time to react. Sure, an early game Yi is pathetic. Wait until you can't even blink and you're dead. What a champion.
Fiddlesticks has just to be in range to get free damage. Also, his E is way too easy to get damage on. Well, the fact that he has 3/4 point and click abilities speaks for itself...
All in all, these old champions must be looked at to fit what League has become. The latest champions/reworks are mostly more mechanical/fun/worked on and they feel rewarding. It's not dumb abilities.
I get the point that getting rid of "easy gameplay to quickly pick the pace of champions" is not that great when we see people that invested themselves on those said champions, or just appreciated the ease of those champs. As in, some people don't want to play the game to grind skills. They want to have fun. And "easy" champs are their way in.
However, these old champs that were good in their time are now completely outdated and they need something new. On my part, I'll always be the one looking for Visual Upgrades ( I like pretty things a lot and being in the art field, I can't stand outdated models to be on Summoner's Rift when I play... ). I'm not the best one on gameplay design, but I think every player can easily have their opinion on what is unhealthy in the game.
By Unhealthy, I'll say that the champion concerned has "little to no counterplay". I think it's the best way to describe it.
We can also talk about unhealthy stuff when it comes to Zoe ( thanks Riot for realizing that she shouldn't deal that much damage if she fails to land her abilities... I mean c'mon ) or Yasuo.
In Yasuo's case, I agree on the fact that his kit counters every matchup possible. He has tools for everything. Against ranged champions? Passive + Windwall. His Dash will get you. Against melee champions? Double crit chance and armor penetration on his Ult.
He melts tanks and squishies the same. I think the double crit and Yasuo is pretty dumb to be honest. He has a shield he gets for moving ( fair enough ) and also is rewarded with a double crit chance....for being Yasuo? Nani?
I talked a bit more about what I think is Unhealthy, but yeah...about Yi : he is braindead and pretty much needs an update. FULL update. ( what was the design team thinking about his 7 lenses that can see the potential of people...it doesn't even look remotely Ionian.... )
Raven Azarath 231 votesSomeone give this person the MVP award today. I agree with this and just left a comment about how YI can dodge cc.
Maybe make Yi's q range much smaller? That way you have some reaction time. It also may be small already and there really is a good frame of time to counter him, but I'd have to research that in the practice tool.
I will say that sometimes it feels like certain champs have a lot less to worry about when it comes to messing up (like every assassin in the game, but I digress). Like I may be able to snare and ult Yi before he gets to me (assuming I am like lux mid and we are 1v1 and at the same lvl and items), but if he can still one-shot me after all that, then that's an issue.
Weedlayer5 votesYou literally just lost to a Yi and immediately posted this thread. This board really is just complaining about champions people lost to, despite them not being a problem.
I could post Yi's sub-50% win rate and abysmal pick rate in plat+, but why bother. Nobody cares about stats anyway unless they confirm their own prior beliefs. I'll instead explain why the argument "Just CC him" does not apply equally to every champion in the game, and is actually good advice for Yi.
Yes, other than Olaf, every champion in the game can be CC'd. However, they are not all equally vulnerable to CC. Ranged champions in particular, such as Xerath or Lux, frequently outrage CC abilities, and thus are less vulnerable than melee champion to it. Additionally, tank champions are inefficient uses of CC, since they are too durable to be easily bursted while CC'd. Hence, champions like Rammus or Sion are also not particularly vulnerable to CC. Finally, burst damage dealers frequently front load enough of their damage that CC-ing them is too late to prevent them from being useful in the teamfight, making "Just CC them" bad advice for dealing with burst casters like Annie.
So taking that together, we see "Just CC them" applies best to champions without long range, without excessive durability and without high burst. Ideally, it applies to sustained DPS, melee range champions that rely on mobility to survive. Examples of this include Master Yi and Katarina. Hence why "just CC them" is given to you as advice against Master Yi.
Tenth Leper2 votesSeconded
AirKingNeo4 votesOk gameplay boards, so Yi is broken with a 45% winrate but Ryze is weak at 46% winrate?
Dingding1233 votesBetter rework Ryze
Rıots Bad Client2 votesI like the buff to yi, I never seen him often. And its not to outlandish to help in some fields without touching his damage.
And I think its a much healthier Buff, Because with this buff; if he becomes to overbearing they could trim some damage off.
Raven Azarath 232 votesI think the biggest issue is the fact that he ults , runs at you like a monster, then when you're about to cc him, he q's and oneshots you. Basically, HE HAS A COUNTER TO YOUR COUNTER WHICH IS HIS Q.
You're faced w/ 2 decisions: 1 - try to cc him before q and MAYBE land the cc 2 - wait for him to q and, when his q is done, hope you're not dead and cc him then. Also hope he is not in aa range, bc then you gonna die right after the q.
Kelg1 votes[{quoted}](name=Raven Azarath 23,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LsKERP8q,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-08-23T16:39:46.696+0000)
I think the biggest issue is the fact that he ults , runs at you like a monster, then when you're about to cc him, he q's and oneshots you. Basically, HE HAS A COUNTER TO YOUR COUNTER WHICH IS HIS Q.
You're faced w/ 2 decisions: 1 - try to cc him before q and MAYBE land the cc 2 - wait for him to q and, when his q is done, hope you're not dead and cc him then. Also hope he is not in aa range, bc then you gonna die right after the q.
This exactly. You basically have to be a Maokai, Malphite or some other hard CC that's unmissable to counter him, and no one plays those champs anymore. It's not really that Yi is 'OP', he's just a bullshit champ, and I never enjoy playing against one.
JoeMG2 votesI love the "just CC them" argument for "counterplay". Like CC isn't the best way to kill any champ in the game. If a generic solution is the only solution it's not counterplay.
KFCeytron1 votesMaster Yi is fucking stupid right now. He goes 0/6 in jg and then 5 minutes later proceeds to 100-0 everyone on my team in 2 seconds doing 700+ true damage. How is this champ fair to play against again? He literally has no counterplay if your team misses their hard CC and is way more of a stat check than old Aatrox ever was. [sg-lux-2]
He has no counterplay if you fail the counterplay? I don't think that means he doesn't have counterplay. I think that means you failed the counterplay.
Neptunia xoxo1 votesHe has no counterplay if you fail the counterplay? I don't think that means he doesn't have counterplay. I think that means you failed the counterplay.
Relying on just hard CC for counterplay is a bad design. Obviously hard CC counters 99% of champions. The bad design here is the fact that Yi can actually kill you before you can even get hard CC off on him and building armor is only 20% effective since most of his damage comes from true damage and HP shred blood razor and botrk with rageblade.
TisBis1 votesI thought I was the only one who noticed this [slayer-jinx-unamused]
Thilmer1 votesI'm banning him often lately.
How are you going to get 2 or 3 hard CC's ready to stop Yi in SoloQ? You simply can't.
At some point, Master Yi is going to start entering fighs with Q and then procedes to kill eery enemy there with autoattacks, because you know, autoattacks are the most skilled ability in the game, and so easy to counterplay...
50Shades0fTrynda1 votesjust seen a game... they almost got swiped by yi... they didnt lose only because they were feed as hell early and and they got decent cc(but cc wouldn't stop his burst and untargetability that master yi has)
in addition... champions who can very easy avoid high amounts of damage with their non-ultimate ability while at same time dealing very high damage themselves ... the only reason why 
and 
are problematic champions and unfun to play against...
i guess riot thinks the game wouldn't be fun without such and other problematics .... i agree, it would be SUPERFUN!
Arcanine191 votesAs a guy who abused him to get from gold to platinum I agree (and conqueror wasnt in the game at that time), if youre a good master yi player its really hard to get shutdowned by the enemy (you just need some on hit and then tanky items and youre and unkillable melting machine) And for the 'just CC him' Bruh, that can be applyed to every champion in the game and that shouldnt be the counterplay to a champion (ok not olaf or morgana shield but u get it)
KFCeytron1 votes[{quoted}](name=Neptunia xoxo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LsKERP8q,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-08-22T23:51:15.844+0000)
Relying on just hard CC for counterplay is a bad design. Obviously hard CC counters 99% of champions. The bad design here is the fact that Yi can actually kill you before you can even get hard CC off on him and building armor is only 20% effective since most of his damage comes from true damage and HP shred blood razor and botrk with rageblade.
As a guy who abused him to get from gold to platinum I agree (and conqueror wasnt in the game at that time), if youre a good master yi player its really hard to get shutdowned by the enemy (you just need some on hit and then tanky items and youre and unkillable melting machine) And for the 'just CC him' Bruh, that can be applyed to every champion in the game and that shouldnt be the counterplay to a champion (ok not olaf or morgana shield but u get it)
Olaf (and maybe Morg/Ali/GP) are actually not the only champions who aren't countered by CC. Some champions are better able to deal with it because they are more likely to:
For example, Rammus generally builds tanky, and will lose a smaller percentage of his health during the CC than squishy champions would. Garen can use W to pop out of CC more quickly. Rumble's Q and R keep dealing damage while he's stopped by CC.
Compare this to a champion like Kat, who generally builds mostly offensive items and relies on channeling her ult while near enemy champions. If she gets hit by CC shortly after ulting, her damage potential is pretty much nothing, since she probably already used her other abilities to set up the ult. And, since her defenses are low, she'll probably die very quickly.
Another champion countered by CC is - yes - Yi, because he relies on constantly attacking to deal high DPS and drain-tank. If he's CC'ed, he deals no damage, can't negate any damage (with lifesteal or W), and is in danger of dying because he generally builds glass cannon. This weakness led to the funneling strategy, where a Taric or Kayle would ult Yi to help him avoid getting killed before CC wears off (and if a Morg helps out, he has a CC shield that's as invulnerable as he is).
Arcanine191 votes
Olaf (and maybe Morg/Ali/GP) are actually not the only champions who aren't countered by CC. Some champions are better able to deal with it because they are more likely to:
- survive its duration,
- reduce its duration, or
- maintain their effectiveness during its duration.
For example, Rammus generally builds tanky, and will lose a smaller percentage of his health during the CC than squishy champions would. Garen can use W to pop out of CC more quickly. Rumble's Q and R keep dealing damage while he's stopped by CC.
Compare this to a champion like Kat, who generally builds mostly offensive items and relies on channeling her ult while near enemy champions. If she gets hit by CC shortly after ulting, her damage potential is pretty much nothing, since she probably already used her other abilities to set up the ult. And, since her defenses are low, she'll probably die very quickly.
Another champion countered by CC is - yes - Yi, because he relies on constantly attacking to deal high DPS and drain-tank. If he's CC'ed, he deals no damage, can't negate any damage (with lifesteal or W), and is in danger of dying because he generally builds glass cannon. This weakness led to the funneling strategy, where a Taric or Kayle would ult Yi to help him avoid getting killed before CC wears off (and if a Morg helps out, he has a CC shield that's as invulnerable as he is).
Every champion is countered by CC, some more than others, just like you said. I mean if you dont have cc who's stopping rammus to reach your adc at the speed of light and taunt him till he kills himself? Rumble cant Q and R if he gets CCed first too. CC is the 'global counterplay' of the game
Guzergus1 votesHe goes 0/6 in jg and then 5 minutes later proceeds to 100-0 everyone
It's hardly possible in a game where people are capable of playing at a decent level.
Emerald Fang1 votesSo like less than 10% of games at plat+?
Guzergus1 votesPlat is not good, but is decent enough for yi not to come back from 0 6. It's factually wrong to state a typical yi can come back from 0 6 and do it consistently.
lolipopevelynn1 votesRiot disagrees. He is getting buffed xDDDD
Destello Azul1 votesYi isn't the problem, the meta is and a few many op items.
New 
is broken, pfff true dmg and x2 to crit chance, RIDICULOUS.
12% less dmg, and no creep block, since creep block is annoying, it is can...
Tenacity, 50% more dmg in aa, and a very good shield.
My unique recommendation is buy a 
, even if you are the ADC. it will delay your death in 2-3 seconds, maybe in that time, you would be able to stop him.
Pls Delete Zoe1 votesThe thing with Yi is that he can litteraly counter most of the ccs. Why ?