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Are tanks meant to be a joke?

GigglesO··104 votes·4,253 views

Just had an over 40 minute game. Grasp gave 100 hp (Laughable) +17 armor + 14 MR (old system I could start flat 16 armor and get 27 of both max level) Bonus shielding doesn't work on mordes self shield 20% tenacity is laughable when 50% of the cc isn't reduce-able anyways.

But I saw a 600 ad rengar, that was pretty neat. Draven had 2.4 AS while having 375 ad fun fun (he started with 40 armor too)

Woo, thanks riot, love me some preseason.

As an edit, some champions that should have the option to be durable can't take much else in the durability tree, or the tree is a joke for durability.

Guardian? (support shielding for the adc) Aftershock (No hard cc like olaf and morde you SoL) Font of life? You must be healing/supporting the adc again. Demolish, oh yea destroying turrets makes me tankier. Iron skin/Mirror Shell are laughable. Heal for 4% of your missing health over 10 seconds on 3k hp thats 120hp for 12hp/second woo, thats really going to slow down the enemy damage dealers, and if you say its for lane sustain I get what 40hp over 10 seconds after a trade in lane, so somehow that regen is supposed to keep me alive while the enemy has things increase damage by 10%?

Overgrowth Assuming 40 minute game, you could get 500 minions to die near you, which would give 60ish stacks which would give you 12% max hp... So then you build your 3k hp and get 360 health, which isn't terrible, but thats a 40 freaking minute game... if this season is anything like last season then you won't get there.

113 Comments

LankPants20 votes

Some of the runes are good ideas but just undertuned somewhat. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with Overgrowth, Grasp, Guardian. Revitalise or Font, they maybe could just do with slightly better numbers. Unflinching could be OK, it should have some of the DR that was originally on the rune back though, the tank tree should have some tank options somewhere in it. I also actually think Conditioning and Aftershock spot on balance wise.

Past these runes though you start to run into the more questionable designs, like why the hell do Iron Skin and especially Mirror Shell even exist? When am I ever going to want Second Wind? The best case scenario for Demolish is that it's utter cancer, more likely it's just garbage. These four runes specifically are prime examples of what's wrong with the Resolve tree. They're lazy, uninspired and generally just shouldn't exist within the game.

GigglesO16 votes

I like aftershock, but what if I play champions that don't have a hard CC like olaf and Morde? What then, how am I supposed to get my tank stats. Damage is nice and all, but you have two issues with champs like Morde and Olaf.

  1. being tanky enough to get to them
  2. having the damage to kill them once you get to them.

New runes don't give enough damage to those type of champs to heavily spec damage, and build tank. They also don't give enough tank to spec tank and build damage.

For the record, I also like unflinching, but I shouldn't have to burn my summoners to get the tenacity.

Handin Out Naps1 votes

Mind explaining this one to me? Shouldn't you just be going phase rush on these champs? And haven't these champs always went for offensive masteries? I think im missing the arguement.

PB4UAME3 votes

Olaf would love defensive masteries more than anything. He goes offensive though, because defense ain't worth shit, and he actually gets more surviability from the extra damage into lifesteal into health than he does from actually getting the defensive tree.

BambooWorld2 votes

How is morde a tank?

Tukan Tonko16 votes

Bonus shielding doesn't work on mordes self shield

Tell me the last time you saw something work on Morde. [sg-miss-fortune]

Ariel the Cruel11 votes

CertainlyT Juggernaut update,

That last time something "worked on" Mord. ;p

Mordepool3 votes

Butchering is technically work

PrinceOfStorms14 votes

Yes. Tanks are meant to be a joke because otherwise ADCs (Riot's golden children) would feel useless, and we can't have that.

DuskDaUmbreon9 votes

Mordekaiser isn't a tank at all. He's not even close to one.

And if you only got 20 procs of Grasp in 40 goddamned minutes, you've fucked up. You should easily have been able to get way more as just about anyone.

ModAcademy Kayn3 votes

Considering Morde's lack of mobility, I'm not surprised he only got 20. Morde's better off with Predator than he is in the Tank line.

deadlychuck2 votes

Mordekaiser isn't a tank at all. He's not even close to one.

And this is what the actual goal of the runes was, to make off builds less viable, and more heavily reinforce the designed playstyles onto the players. You play how they want you to or you don't play at all.

I've seen this gamble before and it didn't pay out.

Xonra8 votes

While I agree with you on the whole...you seem to be basing this off of you playing Morde, and then saying tanks suck. Morde isn't a tank...soooooo

GigglesO4 votes

{quoted}

While I agree with you on the whole...you seem to be basing this off of you playing Morde, and then saying tanks suck. Morde isn't a tank...soooooo

Juggernauts are meant to be huge unstoppable forces, damage dealers, that appear incredibly tanky. And when the juggernaut update dropped these were in the juggernaut update item 3742 item 3053 item 3071 which all have defensive stats.

So, please stop saying that they can't be tanks, because they basically are tanks, that deal damage instead of having cc.

kagepaladin5 votes

Also all the juggernauts have cc Skarner ult is a stun and drag ability darius can pull enemies to himself and slow them illaoi can slow them and dash to them all in their kit. Morde has none of that unless he builds it. Don't get me wrong I love mordekaiser but the Juggernaut rework for him was a trainwreck.

well alot of morde players consider the morde rework a failure, I know alot of people myself included still play him as an ADC, now you may use the argument that he has like a 70% winrate in diamond+ but the player-rate for that role is insanely low which makes it skewed. Morde is an ap mage he doesn't make a good tank or juggernaut cause he is so immobile has no forms of hard cc or way to get close to the enemy or get them close to like darius, illaoi and skarner. Overall he may have been shoe-horned into the role but with no way to get close and if you build him with those tanky AD items your abilities are going to do almost next to no damage then proceed to get outranged and blown up by either twitch, varus. tristana or kog'maw and wont even be able to get close to any of them except maybe kog'maw. you get close to twitch he will either flash out or go invis, close to varus he can ult then flash or even walk away, close to tristana she can rocket jump or flash or just press r on you, kog'maw is one of the few adc's morde can get close to atm due to him having no hard cc or knockbacks but he does have an aoe slow that reduces morde's already slow movespeed to pretty much nothing.

Blakers13 votes

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure MaliciousMetal and other famous Morde Mains still build him as an AP Bruiser when they get the chance. Sometimes they even go hybrid. I'm pretty sure I've seen MM say that almost every item in the game can be good on Morde in some situation. Also Garen is a juggernaut and he effectively has no CC. Just a silence, which is laughable for the most part except in the rare circumstance that the Mage or ADC decide to melee range him for no apparent reason at all, while they are the villain. I'd definitely say Morde falls under the category of a mage/juggernaut hybrid.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Mordes only problem is Mordeplayers want to rotfl stop teams alone without any help like they could before he was reworked he can still do that but now he needs some one else to engage for him is all and they cant get any one to engage for them or they dont follow up on the engage.

kagepaladin1 votes

I always played mordekaiser as a back line carry and would flash in and ult the enemy adc. Harder to do in recent months if you play him top since jungler goes damage mid lane goes damage bot lane is damage and censer supports uptil a bit ago were very oppressive meaning you didn't really have a hard initiator now I don't know especially with pre-season gotta wait till the meta normalizes somewhat again.

LordGeovanni1 votes

That isnt morde being weaker thats your team composition not being synergistinc

kagepaladin1 votes

Not one to bring elo into this but I'll meme my own here, Bronze doens't have an Elo they follow youtuber's who say play your best role and best champion for that role but if you go against a team that has an actual team comp It's most likely a loss unless someone on your team gets a favourable match and can hard 1v5 carry as long as their is bodies for em.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Just asking why do people no in bronze feel the need to tell people who are currently in bronze and playing the bronze games what bronze is like. I got out once but i dont play solo carry classes (mages and adcs) so im largely at the mercy of not only my team doing well early which isnt particularly required but more so teams who surrender and teammates who other wise give up. and just as bad as those guys teammates who try to play so safe they dont do anything to get anything or help anyone.

kagepaladin1 votes

Well to be short and simple, blame riot, they made a ranking system and those people who can't get out of bronze are made of by those who did even though they were probably in their at once themselves. Basically riot said here is a meaningless title that says you are better or got luckier or got boosted and that's all this is. People have taking it upon themselves thinking that they are god at the game and think of us as to no nothing of the game. Say yet a gold player makes fun of a bronze that gold player will go and get made fun of diamond players and diamond players get made fun of by the master tier players at least I'd reckon that's where the meme of hardstuck diamond 5 comes from. We just happen to be the lowest man on the totem pole and I guess they don't care a whole lot about it cause their is alot worse thing's then someone of a higher elo making fun of someone from a lower elo.

Also not so short now my bad. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Kloqdq7 votes

I mean this is on Morde? You only proc'd Grasp 20 times in 40 minutes. Now I am no expert but that's like, not a whole lot of procs.

GigglesO2 votes

Fights don't last more than 4 seconds in diamond.

Kloqdq2 votes

Doesn't it just last in combat though? Combat counting minions. Just like old grasp? So basically any auto will proc it if you are farming?

GigglesO2 votes

You have to hit an enemy champion to get the proc, old grasp worked the same way.

Kloqdq3 votes

Yes I know that.

What I am saying is you start combat by using the minions than proc it. Even if the fights only last 1 second, you should still proc it once every single time you trade. Twice for longer trades. Proc'ing it 20 times in a single game just tells me you never really fought the enemy or tried to trade with them.

Also why would you go grasp on Morde? Seems kind of pointless for him honestly.

Iota Theta7 votes

Wait, you’re claiming tanks are a joke...based on performance on Mordekaiser? The two are not the same. Not to say the Resolve Tree isn’t the weakest (weren’t a bunch of people not too long ago ranting about how OP tanks were), but if you’re gonna say tanks are a joke, at least use actual tanks.

Lets also not forget that Morde has pitiful base stats, so tank stuff on him might feel weaker than it truly is.

Rıots Bad Client7 votes

I had a situation when I was Nautilus with 4k Hp and item 3065 item 3083 item 3068 item 3001 and at full HP a Heimerdinger Corki and a ApShaco Killed me at full HP within 1.5 seconds. Faster them my team could react.

DeathBurst5 votes

Bonus shielding doesn't work on mordes self shield

Hum, really? That's shit, especially since it was a known bug for a long time with the old Mastery and it finally got resolved a couple months ago. You might expect Riot to not make the same mistake twice...

Font of life? You must be healing/supporting the adc again.

Font of life works on yourself, and it works from Slows, including from Rylai. I don't know how good it is, but at least it's functional.

Heal for 4% of your missing health over 10 seconds on 3k hp thats 120hp for 12hp/second woo, thats really going to slow down the enemy damage dealers, and if you say its for lane sustain I get what 40hp over 10 seconds after a trade in lane, so somehow that regen is supposed to keep me alive while the enemy has things increase damage by 10%?

No, really, it IS for lane sustain and it's super good at that. You can heal for 300-500 HP over the laning phase, easily, and compared to what damage dealers have in similar slots, that's a lot. What do you have in mind that increase damage by 10%? Press the Attack doesn't count, it's a Keystone, it's supposed to be stronger than Revitalize.

Most importantly, though: don't build Mordekaiser like a Tank. Resolve is nice as a secondary Path, but go for an Offensive Path as Primary, or even for Inspiration with Hextech Freezeray. Don't go for Resolve Primary.

GigglesO4 votes

{quoted}

but at least it's functional.

But functional and equally as powerful as damage masteries are a joke.

Fedoran5 votes

if you only got 20 procs of grasp in a 40 min game you are doing something wrong.

GigglesO2 votes

Or you die too fast to get it off...

Ventra1178 votes

or you're not playing a tank. morde is not a tank.

Xonra7 votes

This is the thing. The guy is obviously basing this all off of Morde...who ISN'T A TANK

Ariel the Cruel4 votes

And I just look back on the uproar when Riot took away the +5% max health mastery a while back. XD

TeCoolMage4 votes

morde isn't a tank...

Perniicious3 votes

[deleted]

LankPants36 votes

Have you seen Press the Attack, Arcane Comet, Electrocute, Dark Harvest, Scorch, Sudden Impact or Hecarim/Quinn with Predator? All of this with bonus offensive stats across the board and the offensive bonuses being worth about 2x the gold the defensive are worth.

Damage is massively up across the board, not down.

GigglesO14 votes

This, This is what I can't emphasize enough. Damage saw no real change, while tank stats were reduced when compared to damage stats.

Pierce The Veal18 votes

{quoted}

This, This is what I can't emphasize enough. Damage saw no real change, while tank stats were reduced when compared to damage stats.

Damage DID see a real change. It's up across the board.

LordGeovanni5 votes

not on tanks.

flibitydoo3 votes

I actually ended up way tankier on sion than what I usually get

the one pvp game I played today I ended up with 5088hp and 338 armour which is a ton of EHP (like 15k at least). And that was before the hard cc keystone I had.

the enemy ornn I kinda fed was like 4k hp and 200 armour or so, both us were thousands of health and hundreds of armour ahead of everyone else. And like I was like 2/5 and also having 20 less CS than our udyr jungle so clearly I'm not even fed and getting these kinds of stats. I also had 40% cdr (idunno about ornn).

pretty much the only time me or ornn were dying was when multiple champs were hounding us.

Ralanr2 votes

With enough farm Sion can get really tanky much faster now. But if you cannot farm fast enough you feel outclassed imo.

Nevrankroaton3 votes

If you got 100 HP only with grasp after 40 minuts, you did something wrong or you were bullied from afar/couldn't trade in lane.

Alderiate (Main Tryndamere/Jax/Olaf EU) fought a J4 grasp of undying with his tryndamere and the extra hp forced him to go toward BOTRK first item after J4 purchased BC because he gain a LOT of stat from it. Grasp of undying promote active trade/combat so either the lane was very hard OR was ranged or you were really bad. Except that, you CANT be 100HP bonus at 40 minut. It is simply 20 proc of dying grasp, like was this really a good masteries for your champion or strategy?

DragonShea3 votes

Make Grasp work like this. The stacks you gain will increase from 5 to 5/10/15 at Lv 1/7/13

Chembaron Yamada5 votes

I was already sitting at 5k HP today as Dr. Mundo. I can't even imagine where I would have landed with that change.

squido3 votes

I just dont understand why they gave adcs so much armor.

TwitchInMyPants1 votes

Penetration should not have gotten buffed after removing armor seals/mr glyphs

Something I think people are missing is you actually get more flat HP from resolve, though most of the runes are weaker than the flat stats you'd get from old runes. Basically you can be tankier than before early game but it will fall off, wheras damage across the board has gone up.

PopcornBunni2 votes

{quoted}

Penetration should not have gotten buffed after removing armor seals/mr glyphs

Something I think people are missing is you actually get more flat HP from resolve, though most of the runes are weaker than the flat stats you'd get from old runes. Basically you can be tankier than before early game but it will fall off, wheras damage across the board has gone up.

130 Health is only 347 gold worth. Compare to 11 AD: 385 ; 18 AP: 392 ; 15 AD: 525 ; 25 AP: 534 ; 18% AS: 450

Resolve is horrible, tanks got shit on with these new renamed masteries.

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