Clever Way to nerf Fiora

DorkunedAuras··3 votes·1,093 views

Ok, so right now Fiora's ult is being used in team fights not to shred town target opponent, but instead being cast on the most likely to die in the next 2 seconds target, then using the free massive heal for a teamfight win. That is far from intended, and needs to be fixed.

My idea is that Fiora's Ult AoE heal strength be based on how many of the targets she hit. If none are hit, then it's basically nothing, but it all 4 get hit, then it works as usual. That way she isn't a super strong AoE healer in team fights, instead a single target destroyer that can get an AoE heal if she's done her job well.

Another idea is to make Parry not 100% invulnerability to absolutely everything. Maybe have her actually eat debuffs like Death Mark, or not let her block summoner spells.

While on the subject of nerfs, let's look at vayne. Some Ideas I had were:

Actually having a real mana cost on her tumble, so she can't spam infinitely, along with maybe a higher CD early.

Higher Ult CD

Here's a good one to work off of the other two. If you give her Q a higher mana cost, when vayne ults, she could get cost reduction on Qs (back to original value) for the duration of the ult. That gives a real window of power thing for her. Heck, maybe even make her Qs normally have a longer CD, but lower that for the ult. That could be a good trade-off for taking away AD from it.

Remove base damage on SBs, so she doesn't squishy shred as hard

Reduce the knockback on Condemn so she doesn't self peel as hard, and has a harder time connecting with walls.

Higher Ult CD

Reduce the free AD vayne gets from her ult. Right now, she can build loads of AS first, and still have her normals AAs hit like a truck because she has the strongest AD steroid this side of Mundo or Darius

What do you guys think? We all know these champs need to be knocked down, so let's give Riot as many ideas as possible.

12 Comments

pacifishstick3 votes

Funny. The second half of this post doesn't seem to be about Fiora at all.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

well i was talking about viable ways to balance/nerf a champ, and vayne was a logical extension while I was ranting. Remember, this was posted at about midnight-1 AM my time.

Sett up 4my gank2 votes

If you make that change to fiora she becomes sort of useless. She would almost be forced to only go after tanks / bruisers because carries would die to fast. As for vayne she herself doesnt really need a nerf, lane bullies just need to be buffed a bit to deal with her better. She's only strong right now because all the picks that kept / keep her down are useless in the current meta.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

She has no reason to ult squishies because if she gets on top of them, she doesn't need the ult to blow them up. She shouldn't be ulting squishies, because like an assassin-ish-duelist (like Jax), she doesn't need it.

She uses the ult to do loads of damage to those WITH hp, not those without much.

Sett up 4my gank1 votes

{quoted}

She has no reason to ult squishies because if she gets on top of them, she doesn't need the ult to blow them up. She shouldn't be ulting squishies, because like an assassin-ish-duelist (like Jax), she doesn't need it.

She uses the ult to do loads of damage to those WITH hp, not those without much.

The single most important thing in her Kit is to get the full strength heal off. Thats why she ults squishies.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

Honestly, that shouldn't be. Her most important thing should be killing the squshies, not getting a giant AoE heal off, as a duelist assassin.

DarthSpectrum1 votes

Fiora's ultimate already require her to hit at least one vital to proc the healing.

I been practicing with Fiora lately, and she definitely is on the strong side. However, your recommendation wouldn't work because realistically, late game she will rarely ever proc 4 or sometimes even 3 vitals on her ultimate. Most ADCs, mages, and assassins will get 100-0'ed with 2 vitals. Pretty much only a full health tank might take 4. (The vitals do around 17 to 20% maximum health true damage each late game) The other team will also be actively peeling Fiora away. Even if the enemy can survive 3 vital procs, Fiora probably can't even proc all 4 in a team fight due to the amount of CCs that will be put on her.

As well, Riposte doesn't actually block everything. Some AA enhancers like Mace of Spades from Mordekaiser actually goes through strangely.

A better wave to nerf Fiora will be just remove her MS buffs from hitting a vital if she is moving away from her opponent. Or perhaps make each consecutive Vital do more damage than the next, but heavily reduce the damage from the first vital.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

First, i don't think Morde's Mace of shittons of damage isn't supposed to go through, that is probably a bug.

Secondly, she shouldn't be ulting squishies in the first place. If she gets to attack a squishy freely anyway, they're dead period, she shouldn't ult them at all. The ult is for doing damage to this WITH a lot of hp, not those without.

I do like the idea of making the vital damage stack up per hit though.

DarthSpectrum1 votes

In terms of burst, Fiora is actually pretty sub par if she can't hit a vital. If I want someone to 100-0 the ADC, Talon or Rengar are much better options.

Against a ranged ADC and his/her team peeling for him/her, Fiora will struggle hitting the vital if it isn't placed right in front of her on a silver plate. Using the ultimate on the ADC guarantees that the next attack will hit a vital.

As well, the AOE healing is just so powerful right now. It really isn't worth it to kill the Alistar or DrMundo when you can delete the squishy now and get the healing fountain immediately.

I personally think the healing should be toned down for Fiora's allies. The healing isn't really OP on Fiora herself unless she is ridiculously ahead; however, healing all 5 champions for 1 k + is kinda broken, you might as well gave all of them a free revive and instant teleport.

I been playing even more Fiora today (feel free to check my profile), and honestly one of the reason I find she is doing so well right now is that people don't know how to play against her.

You think players asking why there are crystals on the map or why Darius 's Q is so slow are bad? Wait until you see those who unloads all their attacks while Fiora 's W is up.

Riot might actually be right for holding on to the nerf bat and see how players adapt to fight Fiora. One general tip I noticed is to not be afraid of baiting out her Q with a stun. Honestly, it is much better for Fiora to block a Veigar ' W for example rather than his ultimate.

In one of my recent games, I had a Darius so afraid to get CC'ed that he would always try to bait out my Q with his Q first. It worked, but when he does pull me in he couldn't trade back because he doesn't have his Q.

As well, like all champions Fiora has counters. In both ranked and normal games, I had players pick Malphite against me. Malphite frankly is just good against Fiora in lane. The shield negates her initial Q engage, and Malphite can trade back with his Q and E. Fiora can't run away from Malphite, and Malphite is just so much stronger early game. At level 6, Malphite can point black cast his ultimate which leaves no room for Fiora to parry it. Fiora simply gets withered down by Malphite in lane and gets burst down at level 6. While Malphite remains mostly unscratched.

OJ1911 votes

{quoted}

Fiora's ultimate already require her to hit at least one vital to proc the healing.

I been practicing with Fiora lately, and she definitely is on the strong side. However, your recommendation wouldn't work because realistically, late game she will rarely ever proc 4 or sometimes even 3 vitals on her ultimate. Most ADCs, mages, and assassins will get 100-0'ed with 2 vitals. Pretty much only a full health tank might take 4. (The vitals do around 17 to 20% maximum health true damage each late game) The other team will also be actively peeling Fiora away. Even if the enemy can survive 3 vital procs, Fiora probably can't even proc all 4 in a team fight due to the amount of CCs that will be put on her.

As well, Riposte doesn't actually block everything. Some AA enhancers like Mace of Spades from Mordekaiser actually goes through strangely.

A better wave to nerf Fiora will be just remove her MS buffs from hitting a vital if she is moving away from her opponent. Or perhaps make each consecutive Vital do more damage than the next, but heavily reduce the damage from the first vital.

Um you sure it wasn't just a fail-timing issue? I havn't encountered mace of spades personally but it's certainly SUPPOSED to block everything. Like seriously, if you get that one in a million fluke of timing you can BLOCK IGNITE.

{quoted}

First, i don't think Morde's Mace of shittons of damage isn't supposed to go through, that is probably a bug.

Secondly, she shouldn't be ulting squishies in the first place. If she gets to attack a squishy freely anyway, they're dead period, she shouldn't ult them at all. The ult is for doing damage to this WITH a lot of hp, not those without.

I do like the idea of making the vital damage stack up per hit though.

It does happen though. If you need the heal NOW NOW NOW then you ult a near-dead squishy to get the heal out as you finish them. But I wouldn't call that wrong/broken, strange thematically maybe but not particularly bad or OP.

{quoted}

The single most important thing in her Kit is to get the full strength heal off. Thats why she ults squishies.

Nope. She ults squishies if she needs the heal and right now. If you don't need the heal right-damn-now it's far better keeping it to deal with a tank who will burn down just as fast as the squishy would have because of 4x+ vitals.

Really it's heavily heavily situational and saying it should be used always either way is silly.

CppL1 votes

Just remove sustain from her passive.It already gives her true dmg and ms boost.

OJ1911 votes

Sure, but reliability needs to go up.

It's actually possible to ult someone then hit them and have NONE of the vitals proc... and yes I know the ult vitals don't spawn right away which causes it's own problems

if you stand too close to someone you can't proc vitals

people can just walk over next to a wall and suddenly you can't proc ult at all with no recourse other than to run away if you were relying on the heal to win a duel

disagree on riposte/parry, at most it should lose a fraction of a second off the parry duration but making it arbitrarily not block certain stuff will just be a complete mess.

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