Perhaps halving the duration to 1 second if they step on a bubble could be fair. Or maybe have CC time lower the longer the trap is on the field. Honestly, her bubble traps are the most annoying when you think that you dodged them when they suddenly expand and snag you at their edge.
Bronze 6 Yasuo3 votesPerhaps halving the duration to 1 second if they step on a bubble could be fair. Or maybe have CC time lower the longer the trap is on the field. Honestly, her bubble traps are the most annoying when you think that you dodged them when they suddenly expand and snag you at their edge.
And then she uses her combo and one shots you.
Fun champ.
Azadethe3 votesNah. The only problem with E is the fact a good aim and predictor can reduce it to a 5 second cooldown once they have CDR, and even if they fail to execute a kill with the first sleep, they can try again almost before the target even wakes up.
I think as a Zoe player the NORMAL cooldown is fine; it makes you regroup when failing a burst. But, the hitting a target cooldown being down to 5 seconds is ridiculous.
The tweak I'd do is knock .5 second off her E's basic cooldown, but remove the 10-30% CDR reduction for hitting it. That'd help balance out the fact that it's a needed skill vs the fact that it would lose it's huge cooldown reduction.
Atm:
Normal Cooldown scales from 16-14 seconds, down to 8.8 - 7.7 seconds on 45% cdr, and between 7.92 - 5.39 Seconds when it hits.
If you look at how the skill behaves: 1+ second of drowsy slowing down a champ followed by 2 seconds of sleep, If Zoe hits, has 40% CDR, and focuses on E, she can have 3 seconds of champ location securing CC, followed by 2.39 seconds before the next sleep gets fired. To the champ on the receiving end, there's almost no real time to be reacting to 1) the huge damage they just took, and 2) the next volley of sleep.
I'm generally supportive of the damage side of Zoe's kit. But this E mechanic is a bit troubling.
The snagging part is part of a healthy mechanic. The spam is not.
Oleandervine1 votesNo, the major problem with E, aside from being on a super low CD for such hard CC, it's range, and the length of the CC, is that it makes the next damage source deal absurd amounts of extra true damage. The skill is overloaded and busted as hell, and needs more than the cool down tinkered with. That sheer amount of true damage should not exist in the game from any source.
Azadethe1 votesThat "Sheer amount of True damage" exists in many forms: Vayne, Cho gath, Camille's Precision protocol converts up to 100% of her damage to true damage.
Fiora does up to about 20% of a target's HP in true damage per Vital she hits.
Gangplank's Passive does up to 225 + 100% of his AD in true damage each time he destroys a barrel and auto attacks after.
There's a lot of sources of LARGE true damage already in the game. I didn't Mention Yi or Irelia, because theirs is moderate.
The true damage on Zoe's E is actually around rank 8 in True damage hits. It Caps at the damage (base +AP) on E's own damage, which means that even at 1000 AP, its cap is 220 + 400 = 620 True damage added to whatever attack procs it.
I want you to look at Darius's Ult or Cho's Ult.
Darius's ult when hitting bleeding stacked foes on 5 charges of bleeding can do around 1300 -1500 True damage (This is why a snowballed Darius can Pentakill and has very little counterplay)
Cho Gath's Ult scales infinitely, and deals 650 + 50% HP + 10% of his Max HP (aka a 4000 HP cho deals at least 1050 true damage, and if he has AP, more)
Fiora's ult allows her to hit up to 4 vitals, all of which on a well built Fiora = at least 80% Max HP TRUE DAMAGE In addition to her AD on hit damage, and a self heal (She's the #1 sure thing true damager)
Vel Koz's entire Ult does True damage if the target takes 3 stacks of deconstruction prior to the Ult (That's potentially a 2000 aoe True damage hit)
Furthermore, Zoe's effect is unreliable. If the next damage source is just an auto attack, many times the damage doubled is a pithy amount and it's wasted.
And, range is also unreliable. If you shoot from too far as Zoe, you literally wasted your bubble entirely. You need to be within 1375 range at minimum to actually hit anything with any combo of skills. Most wall jumping shots put Zoe beyond that, and the MOST reliable 1 shot combo requires you to be at 800 range (and R backwards, proc Q, and then reproc after R ends). If you attempt 1375 range R over a wall and then Second proc Q forward, 90% of the time it will miss. At high range, Bubble is pretty much a support spell for a teammate.
Kitten of Evil1 votesWell many of those examples you gave are ults, so they're really not comparable to a basic skill that can be applied potentially every 5 seconds, and that actually helps proc itself. See, the difference with Camille's Q, Vayne/GP/Fiora true damage is that those true damage skills are not attached to a CC. Those champions must use other parts of their kit or allied CC to stick to or stay in range of an enemy.
Zoe's E slows you for a second, then applies an up to 2 second stun, basically ensuring that you'll take a big chunk of true damage in addition to the CC.
Zoe's effect is unreliable. If the next damage source is just an auto attack, many times the damage doubled is a pithy amount and it's wasted.
The ticking yellow circle may as well read "DO NOT WASTE A BASIC ATTACK ON THIS CHAMPION". Once Zoe's been around awhile, teams will know not to waste low damage skills on sleeping targets.
And, range is also unreliable. If you shoot from too far as Zoe, you literally wasted your bubble entirely.
Unless you were using it to escape. Or using it to help an ally escape. Or using it to help an ally initiate. If you hit a champion with it, it'll be up again in 7 seconds anyway, so it's not a big loss.
At high range, Bubble is pretty much a support spell for a teammate.
So? It's a pretty damn strong one.
Azadethe1 votesYou're actually trying to argue that a ranged skill that misses is more reliable than Ults that are certain kills.
Furthermore Fiora? Lmfao. She has a CC, and it's a pretty all powerful one. Riposte Blocks ANYTHING, and if it was a cc she blocks, it stuns the caster. It's low cooldown, as is her Q, which is literally the spitting image of the debate we're having on Zoe: At high levels, Q's base is 8 seconds, reduced to 4.4 seconds on CDR, AND hitting with it reduces its cooldown another 60% (1.76 second cooldown Lunge). Fiora can literally kill a champ by only using Lunge, and it applies 21% Max HP damage in addition to AD damage. That's 1 skill.
Your argument that Vayne has to rely on allies or other parts of her kit is ridiculous. So does Zoe.... Her E doesn't KILL and can't KILL no matter how built you are. You rely on Q's damage by using R. 3 parts of her kit. Anywho..... If Vayne wall knocks, it's over.
Kitten of Evil1 votesYou're actually trying to argue that a ranged skill that misses is more reliable than Ults that are certain kills.
That's weird. I didn't know Vel'Koz's ult was certain to hit, or certain to proc true damage. I also didn't know Fiora was guaranteed to hit all 4 vitals when she ults. As for Garen, Darius, and Cho, they have to be melee range to use their true damage ults, so it is balanced somewhat by the fact you can kite them.
Also, THEY ARE ULTS. They absolutely should be more powerful than a basic ability, because they are up so rarely.
Fiora? Lmfao. She has a CC, and it's a pretty all powerful one. Riposte Blocks ANYTHING, and if it was a cc she blocks, it stuns the caster. It's low cooldown
Hahahaha. Okay, first of all, that's by definition conditional CC (if the enemy doesn't have a disable, it's just a slow) and it has to be aimed at the source of the CC). Secondly, low cooldown? It's got 16s base cooldown at level 5. Zoe's E has 14s that is reduced to 9.8s if she sleeps someone (30% refund), and that number can go even lower with CDR.
Fiora can literally kill a champ by only using Lunge, and it applies 21% Max HP damage in addition to AD damage. That's 1 skill.
Her scaling is 2.5% + 4.5%/100 bonus AD. So to get to 21 max% HP, she has to have **411 ** bonus AD. At that point, you aren't scared of her % health damage, she's basically 3-shotting you with physical damage and E-crits.
Vayne has to rely on allies or other parts of her kit is ridiculous. So does Zoe.... Her E doesn't KILL and can't KILL no matter how built you are.
I'll be the first to agree that Vayne isn't really an example of a super healthy champion. But she has to land 3 auto-attacks on you to proc that true damage, and it's only 12% max HP in true damage. When Zoe lands an E, ANYONE ON HER TEAM can follow up, adding up to 220+40% of Zoe's AP in true damage to their first hit. And you're stunned for up to 2 seconds until someone does hit you, so the enemy team has time to figure out how best to proc it.
It's just a hugely overloaded ability:
It does a respectable bit of damage up-front (220+40% AP isn't amazing, but late-game it's still potentially 500 magic damage. For comparison, Vel's knockup is 190+30% while Lux's Q is 250+70% so somewhere in the middle)
It slows you for ~1 second and then stuns you for up to 2 seconds
It can be used point blank but even if you miss, it stays on the ground for a few seconds, expanding into a large area denial trap
It doubles the damage of the next hit you take while stunned, up to 220+40% AP in true damage (remember, late-game this can be 500 true damage added to the next hit). This means that this basic skill's actual damage is as high as 440+80% AP damage, half magic, half true.
To top it all off, it rewards you simply for landing it by refunding some of the CD, putting it on as low as 5 or 6 seconds between uses.
Bronze 6 Yasuo2 votesActually, nerf zed instead TOO OP OMG.
Quepha1 votesThe bubble's travel speed has to be slower. If her cc is more powerful and more punishing than a morg binding then it needs to be at least as difficult to land.
Feathermane1 votesIn addition, delete yasuo
SpecterVonBaren1 votesMake it so the zone works like Viktor's gravity field where you have to be in it for a certain duration to get drowsy but have a direct hit work like it does now.
