Plz, increase his energy costs. Make it so that his WEQ combo takes up all his energy during the laning phase, but decrease it by level (less than it is now). I believe Kennen is the most balanced out of all the energy champs, using him as role-model for energy based champs is a good idea.
Antemos Xaos30 votesKennen is the most balanced energy champion. I have never played against a kennen and thought "This is absolute bull-hockey." like I have with Akali/zed.
If we could make Shen's costs a bit more like Kennen as well, that would be cool.
AbiwonKenabi9 votesI'm not saying I entirely disagree, but doesn't Shen's taunt cost a LOT of energy? I mean, it should, its a very strong ability, and it makes the Shen player think twice about using it to dive in or as an escape, etc. But does it need to be higher? I honestly don't know, I don't play Shen and haven't played WITH a Shen in a long time.
Also, we're all forgetting one of the biggest offenders in the energy category....
Madra3 votesI'm not saying I entirely disagree, but doesn't Shen's taunt cost a LOT of energy? I mean, it should, its a very strong ability, and it makes the Shen player think twice about using it to dive in or as an escape, etc. But does it need to be higher? I honestly don't know, I don't play Shen and haven't played WITH a Shen in a long time.
Also, we're all forgetting one of the biggest offenders in the energy category....
Shen has an energy recovery mechanic associated with his taunt which allows him to follow up with the rest of his repertoire provided he hits enemy champions. This helps offset the otherwise prohibitively expensive cost of the move that was implemented to limit his ability to escape. If Shen shadow dashes and doesn't hit an enemy champion, his energy bar is really going to be hurting.
Junkο2 votesWith the recent buffs to Shen, he does not actually need to hit Taunt to follow up. He needs to wait an extra second for 10 energy to regain energy to cast both Q and W, and that's it. If he hits it he gains energy that he is unable to use back.
The Epicer ONe1 votesdont know if ur retarted or ur trolling. 10 seconds is a LOT in league of legends. to put in perspective teamfights last for 3-4 seconds. trades last for 2.
LankPants2 votes1 second for 10 energy
TheRainInSpain2 votesDon't know if you can read or not. Did you fail first grade or something?
AMYS GRAVE2 votesYeah, if Shen misses his taunt he can't even finish his combo. Even then it still leaves his energy bar really low unless you hit it on 3+ enemy champions.
Chespin20131 votesshens taunt takes like a half of his energy bar
Ariel the Cruel6 votesHis Taunt costs half his energy bar. His other 2 abilities cost ~1/3 of his energy bar. His ult is Free.
Shen's taunt is thinner than a Nidalee spear (roughly located at his head). Taunting an enemy restores ~1/4 of his energy. His passive Procs restore about 1/10 of his energy.
If Shen doesn't hit a champ with his Taunt, he cannot use his full rotation. If he uses his other 2 abilities first without a passive proc, he cannot taunt.
Given that the standard these days is that energy champs are effectively resourceless. I'd say his costs need to be decreased.
Junkο1 votesHis taunt costs 100 energy His Q and W combined cost 110.
If he misses his taunt he has to wait 1 second to use one of his other spells or hit an AA. His ult doesn't cost anything either.
WhiteFireOCN2 votesAs a Shen main, I disagree with his energy costs being decreased.
It makes playing Shen more fun / challenging, as it actually makes you think about what you're doing with your spells cough cough
Ariel the Cruel2 votes*** Given that the standard these days is that energy champs are effectively resourceless.*** I'd say his costs need to be decreased.
That was meant to be a jab at other energy users. Sorry, I should have made that clearer. My bad.
WhiteFireOCN1 votesAh, MB. Sarcasm detection system was malfunctioning :P
Sammystorm1 votesshen is already considered a weak pick. How would increasing energy cost help that? Also his taunt costs an arm and a leg already.
ForgiveColour11 votesIll laugh at this thread when kennen rises to fotm. mark my word people here acutally think kennen is balanced LLOLOLOLOl
SpongebobIsLife4 voteshe is balanced. He has plenty of strengths, but also plenty weaknesses.
Chromatic Eagle2 votesSuch as? I hate laning against him.
killd0zer2 votesKennen is just out of favor right now. He's super fun to deal with when he runs into your team and Ult/Zhonyas, and you can't do anything about it.
ThePlasticSpork2 votesExcept using any form of disengage on him. Janna wrecks him, having a Trist on your team makes Kennen's day pretty difficult, teamwide movement speed buffs make it very difficult for him to stun your team (and every support has the option to build that item), Thresh flay gives him a hard time, etc.
Unless he flash-ults, which he can't do very often, all of those methods will stop him from stunning more than maybe two people on your team unless your team has abysmal positioning.
Then there's the fact that supports can build Mikhaels in the event that he stuns someone really important. QSS also fares well against his stuns, even banshees is nice against him because it will stop you from getting stunned long enough to get out of his ult radius while he's in zhonyas.
There's plenty of options against him. You just need someone to be on point at applying disengage before he gets in the middle of your team. If Kennen is simply E'ing into your team every fight without need of flash, then your team is not very good.
Junkο1 votesSo you deal with Kennen the same way people REFUSE to deal with Zed and complain about why he is so OP? By picking champion counters and building against him?
ThePlasticSpork4 votesThe cases are hardly similar, and a lot of Zed's problems aren't due to the nature of his interactions with champions, but rather the infinite nature of his waveclear. Notably, Zed was not a problem when most mana users could simply outpoke and out clear him, but due to regen nerfs, Zed is now problematic because his energy combined with excellent, safe waveclear is overbearing. Kennen's waveclear pattern is not nearly as strong as Zed's.
The OTHER problem about Zed, which was still present even when he was balanced, is his absolute safety when he engages. Whether or not that should be maintained is debatable, but IMO the waveclear is a bigger problem and the safe engages are just icing on the cake. But notably, Kennen is once again different because the manner of his engage is unsafe - he puts himself into the middle of the enemy team. If the fight starts going against his favor, he WILL die, unlike Zed, even if he has Zhonyas.
You can't build against Zed's waveclear, nor can any of the items you build make him less safe.
RexZor2 votesAgreed
slippykitten2 votesSo you want zed to never be played again?
ÁCTION IS COMING1 votesSo you want zed to never be played again?
Why is this being downvoted? It's only true, zed nerfs are bad enough. and early game he runs out of energy fast, He consumes way more than kennen. Akali on the otherhand is a reset assassin that already got nerfed, possibly as hard as olaf.
Junkο2 votesAs somebody who used to play Kennen, he is literally manaless late game because of his energy return on E and stuns. So he is even a worse offender than Zed
Meep Man6 votes[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LJo9yOME,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-02-12T20:14:48.675+0000)
As somebody who used to play Kennen, he is literally manaless late game because of his energy return on E and stuns. So he is even a worse offender than Zed
I guess if you hit everything, get all the stuns, and never mess up then yes.
Junkο1 votesHis W now hits everybody caught in his ult and now has a higher per person delay (though that is a bugfix). And note that he was always able to stun 1 person 3 or really rarely 4 times in a row (though diminishing returns) before. With these buffs you must be really bad to not stun at least 2-3 people with Kennen to get 75 energy back, well 115 really if you count E.
MrBuffington2 votesWell it would take most of his energy, but his energy regen passive (that every energy champion has) works with him harassing people at range with his combos. Thus, the better he's able to combo on the enemy, the more he's allowed to harass the enemy. As opposed to like, Shen or Kennen (even Akali and Lee Sin, of all champions), who only gain energy back if they go into melee range with the enemy. In other words, Zed is rewarded for poking with his combo; if it fails, he just backs off till his energy comes back, and if it succeeds, he has his energy back to harass you even more. Every other energy champion requires they put themselves in danger/melee range to gain energy back with their passive.
Auryiel2 votesJust gonna leave this out there, but Kennen's harass and wave clear are on different abilities.... Oh and one of the two key components to his waveclear, his E, deals half damage to minions.... Mmmmm it's like... It's like Riot knew what they were doing with energy champs back in the day and now they don't...
Weird.
Junkο1 votesHis E also gives him 10-50 Armor and MS and hitting an entire minion wave followed by W will instakill it and regain 40 energy for the first target he hits.
Auryiel1 votesKennen... Insta kill a minion wave...
Sure if he's fed as fuck but that's about it.
With 5 ranks in both W and E he deals 303 +90% AP magic damage to a minion wave. That implies he has to actually get into contact with the minion wave, sacrifice his mobility spell and sacrifice the skill that offers the most pressure on his lane opponent (W). For a long CD waveclear that is weaker than most mage's short CD spells used twice. AND Kennen usually maxes Q first.
Kennen's waveclear is so disgustingly well designed compared to Zed's it makes me question whether Riot even thought about that before releasing the shadow ninja. Unlike Zed's it requires actual commitment, it's somewhat weak AND it can't be leveled up at the same time as his main harass spell.
Meanwhile Zed just maxes Q, spams it all day and can try to harass you as he is waveclearing. For no cost at all.
OP's right, Zed should be balanced more like Kennen.
Aww Kat2 votesZed's WEQ does use all of his energy...
aaronconlin1 votesThe complaint about zed is that he can farm with his q and gains the energy back to use it indefinitely
Azteryz1 votesa part of me feels like he is because kennen is ranged which makes this a bit harder ;/
Aboylova921 votesExactly, early levels if you use your E, it's going to severely gate you for a bit. Zed, similar to Azir I guess in that respect, at least FEELS like he can always outtrade you.
DONT NEEEED TEAM1 votesfk u holysht why don't we nerf the people who don't use mana or energy at all then ?
Ariel the Cruel1 votesSure. Why not?
I'm sure 
won't mind.
. . . Um... I think you need to work on Saturday.
AMYS GRAVE1 votesI agree, but kennen's late game can be a little resourceless... his early/mid game can be a good model though.
1st HanarSpectre1 votesPeople have whine incessantly about Kennen in the past, and due to recent buff, people will soon start whining like crazy about him soon.
chumbler1 votesIt's almost like energy is a terrible fucking resource that will never be balanced because it is a conceptual shit pile.
A Drowned Fish1 votesHas anyone ever actually played Zed? WEQ already takes up all of Zeds energy at early levels (175) saving 25 which you can't do shit with.-Sincerely, a Zed main
