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Why are mages being played as supports?

Cale017·2/4/2015, 9:02:09 PM·4 votes·4,568 views

No, no really. Stop and think about this. And yeah it's a rant, so feel free to click away, I'm just venting here.

Annie, Vel'Koz, Karma, Morgana, Brand, even the odd Heimer. All of them are mages first and foremost, but they are played in the bottom lane as supports because they have a bit of CC but a bunch of damage.

Except Morgana who has a bunch of CC and a bunch of damage.

All of them have either high base damage abilities or passives that let them whittle away at someone, and they essentially pose a threat just by being there instead of actively engaging with the enemy or working with their laning partner. There is no interplay between the two, you don't have one helping the other with heals or buffs. The only thing that's different about them when they're played support is a RoA and giving up on a bunch of farm for the first twenty minutes or so.

That's all. You're still essentially playing them as a mid lane-esque mage but with a slower initial build speed until you (inevitably) get your ADC fed and start roaming fed off of assists yourself.

I wouldn't have such an issue with this if these sub supports weren't able to overwhelm other dedicated supports. Why bring Sona for heals when Annie can get you a level 2 first blood? Why bring Thresh when Vel'koz can poke them down from range? Why zone someone with Blitz or Leona when Heimer's turrets can do that, and do more damage while they are?

It's not that I can't win against these sorts of lanes. But they make people act like they're suddenly god tier players for doing Annie support and landing a targeted stun, or when they're playing Brand and brag about still having buttloads of waveclear.

It's not because you're such a good player you can make it work. It's because you're a mage effectively doubling the offensive potential of a lane, running a gimmick comp just to have a stronger early game.

Haven't we seen what happens when people are played outside of their role to the point it becomes an issue? I don't mean experimentation or just having some fun here, look at poor Annie. She lacks range, if you aren't careful you'll go OOM VERY quickly, and doesn't have a lot of kill potential unless she's got TIBBERS. But because she was being played as a support more and more last year she got her base damages reduced, which then made her mid lane viability drop a bit as well. Lulu and Soraka were both played to capitalize on their great scalings and amazing poke, but then they got slammed into the ground and forced back to just being supports because folks went crazy with it.

Abusing what a champion has for a cheap tactic does not mean you're a better player with that champion. If anything I have more respect for the Soraka who keeps my health up and my enemies silenced than I do the AP tank Soraka going even in the top lane.

I don't know if I'm alone in thinking this, but I really am worried about this, possibly due in part to me just being a bit rubbed the wrong way when people try to brag about doing well when they're not even using all of what a champion has to the fullest to focus on one or two abilities that are all they need to turn a lane.

P.S. Riot if Vel'Koz support leads to him being nerfed I will never forgive you.

P.S.S. Riot please buff Zac.

P.S.S.S. Riot tell us something, anything, about Ao Shin.

50 Comments

Swagicus2/4/2015, 9:21:13 PM10 votes

Honestly, my main issue with what you're saying is that you have determined that because a champion was designed to perform in a role, it is unfair if they can perform other roles.

A support is simply a champion which can assist the ADC in doing well without requiring a high amount of gold income. Because of this, supports almost always bring some form of crowd control to the table, as seen in the list of champions you were talking about. If you really don't want mages to ever support, then their crowd control would need to be gutted, which would only add to the issues that plague immobile midlaners.

If you are really that concerned about the "unhealthy" amount of poke they bring to the table, bring a sustain support. At least, that's my feelings on the matter.

Abyssphere2/4/2015, 9:18:35 PM5 votes

It's because the actual dedicated to supports have got nerfed to the point that mid laners do their job better, and the mana regen has also been nerfed to the point that mages can't compete in mid lane anymore. Buff supports and allow mages back in their lane again and boom, everything's solved.

Wînter Fox2/4/2015, 9:26:34 PM2 votes

Riot decided to nerf Taric, Nami, Soraka, Sona, Lulu, etc. so what else are ppl supposed to use?

Castanean2/4/2015, 9:29:15 PM2 votes

Well, here's the thing. Or at least, what I believe to be the thing. The "Support" isn't really that well defined as a class. Their purpose in the current meta is to provide utility and protection for a class that has neither, the ADC/Marksman, provided they aren't playing Ashe or something. Mages usually have a fair bit of utility, as that is apparently what differentiates a mage from an assassin.

Now, consider this. What does a Support not usually provide? ... Got it? Exactly. Damage. Mages both can, and will, provide both of these, although with less or less powerful utility in exchange. Now, since mages provide additional damage, less CC and utility is actually needed since both champions can deal the damage needed to finish off an enemy.

Scenario Time: Morgana and Draven are swimming in the gold of a dead Vayne, Soraka is crying under turret because Soraka can't do anything about them on her own. Next time Vayne gets back, they ask the jungler for a gank. Eventually, the jungler ganks, and Vayne gets a kill on Draven. They're low, as Draven was ahead. What happens now? Morgana gets a kill on Vayne, the jungler retreats and Soraka goes back to cry under the turret.

So, TL;DR; Mages are played as supports because they're better rounded out and can actually protect themselves decently while the supports are either squishy and helpless or tanky and helpless, meaning ANY carry class can typically off them easily for some free, safe gold. Relatively.

Primary Supports aren't really useless though, as they usually have potentially game-changingly powerful utility, just not the ability to defend themselves. ... There are exaptions though, such as Thresh, Sona, Leona and Taric, surprisingly.

Rockman2/5/2015, 10:54:45 PM2 votes

[deleted]

Sailor Mint2/4/2015, 9:11:33 PM2 votes

Annie: Instant AoE crowd control. Long Range AA Poke. Good Damage. Vel'koz: Strong Poke. CC. High damage. Karma: Strong Poke. Shields and Speed Boost. Morgana: Strong CC. Spellshield. Brand: Strong Poke. CC. Extremely High Damage. Heimerdinger: Good CC. Zoning. Good Poke. Good Damage.

See a pattern?

In general: Sustain > Poke > Engage > Sustain

Fun fact, standard supports crush most of the non-standard supports.

7ha7guy7772/5/2015, 7:36:44 PM1 votes

where's the oak? i occasionally go oak support when i'm duoing with a friend. q is a knockback and slow, W is a root that doesn't require ap to do significant damage but scales pretty well with it, E acts as pseudo wards, slows, and can be used for harass, R protects anyone standing near you.

i've also had occasional success with Malz support + Quinn (AoE blind + AoE silence makes it hard for them to fight back) although that was more of a kill lane than legitimate support and brand would probably be a slightly safer version of that lane because he has non-ult hard cc. high bases + all 3 spellthief procs off of 1 ability + dragon control via W and voidlings tanking dragon (and blocking skill shots) would be my reasons for going Malz support.

Colgate Gator2/5/2015, 7:45:58 PM1 votes

Because they have naturally high damage, they often have some sort of CC and utility.

They are a different kind of supports, but I assume it happens because assassins shove them off mid.

ModKnightsKemplar2/5/2015, 7:57:42 PM1 votes

I have thought about this quite a bit myself. I think the answer is Riot taking away the support's ability to cast things on themselves; that way, they can have powerful abilities that ONLY work in a duo lane. To me, this seems like the only answer, but it would pretty much force them to play support. I'm okay with that, and I don't think Riot is.

Think about a Lulu that couldn't speed herself up, or use ult on herself. Completely different champion. Think about a Soraka that didn't have self healing, and could only heal her partner (if that ability didn't cost health). Think about a Taric that relied on his armor to tank things, instead of having a ridiculous self heal. And yeah, I'm only listing one ability because in every case, the rest of the kit would need to be adjusted. I'm just saying that if you want traditional supports to be as good as mages, they have to have access to some tools that mages don't have. In order for those tools to be powerful, they need to only work in a duo lane.

Now, Riot has tried to do this with some champs, and in some cases it works well. Sona is like this, in a way. Her heal costs the same mana whether you heal one or two people, so obviously you'd rather heal two. Duo lane.

In other cases, it works less well. Taric grants armor to allies, but it's hard to get armor items as a support... Additionally, while his heal does heal for more health, in total, if you use it on someone else, it's incredibly good on Taric alone. If Taric had the numbers on his current kit to be a top-tier support, he would be even better in a solo lane. To me, that's the key problem. Supports don't have a REAL identity. They have abilities that are just as good at supporting themselves as supporting someone else. Until that's fixed, we're going to continue to see a lot of these mage bot lanes.

Centuros2/5/2015, 11:25:59 PM1 votes

This is basically the Dota version of the "support" role - super bursty guys.

On the other hand, mages generally don't have heals. I played against a Nami/ADC Sona botlane once and it was horrifying.

Ligerzz2/6/2015, 7:02:26 AM1 votes

Riot stated that they would bring variety into the game, and having mid lane mages as supports is a good start. The only problem I have with that is that they actually do better as a support than a mid (Zyra she is listed primarily as a mage but recommended items are support items. Now that is a problem).

A little Peepo2/6/2015, 7:32:48 AM1 votes

Supports don't need shields and heals to be supports. Any support that has good team f ought potential and works extremely well with spell thief's edge works.

Annie: has amazing CC with her no cool down stun and has a great team fight potential. Velkoz: has great CC and amazing damage without ap. Works extremely well with spell thief's and has a consistent slow with low mana costs. Morgana: great CC and great shield. Tbh that shield is what makes her a good support, counters popular over picked thresh, blitz, leona. Karma: karma is essentially a hybrid and works as both mage and support but tends to fulfill support better because of spell thiefs.

Any champion that can hold their own lane against thresh, leona or blitz works as a support. Good CC and decent damage, then it can be played as a support, support just means you support your adc not having heals and shields. After seeing all these picks you would think people would start to realize support isn't as black and white as it used to be. If you can keep your adc alive and set up ganks with your jungler and have team fight potential then you can be played as a support, period. If you are still stuck with the mentality that a support should be defined by having shields or heals then you need to go back to season 2, this is season 5.

Only Play Darius2/6/2015, 9:53:50 PM1 votes

Morgana does not have good damage, first game I played Morg I went 0/12

Velkoz is manageable mid lane, but for whatever reason he is extremely oppressive bottom lane, sorry if he get's nerfed but it looks like that's going to happen.

Blitzcrank was never a support, his info page states he is a tank/fighter, people just realized that if he can land his Q botlane it's an easy first blood, strategy like that is what you are complaining about in this article.

Galiö2/9/2015, 10:36:16 AM1 votes

Well Mobility, Range (poke), and tanks are the most op things in the gamE I'm that order. So they are just captivating on the poke. You can easily have two tanks bot lane who will melt an adc and a support because their base damage o's greater. But no one does that.

Zazusha2/9/2015, 10:40:28 AM1 votes

karma is a support before a mage according to rito, her recommended build on SR is support. Annie has been a viable support for a while but only in offense with a reliable stun for defense. same for velkoz with his E, just less viable but still possible.

also is "P.P.S." and "P.P.P.S" when adding more "P.S."'s after the first and second.

Drakzul2/9/2015, 10:55:10 AM1 votes

Only thing I hate about this is when they are on my team and I'm adc... lol. Normally people don't play these types of supports passively or like you said play them to SUPPORT. I'm all for having people play whatever they want. But if I'm adc I expect to be peeled for.

Leti the Yeti2/4/2015, 9:08:43 PM1 votes

you might be alone on this bragging supports.. lol unheard of

Aljonau6/11/2017, 3:36:32 PM1 votes

They are played because they are viable. Also they are played in soloq because they are less dependant on adc skill. My main is Janna and as much as I love her... she cannot deal any damage ever which in some scenarios is a huge problem, because that is how lol works.

Of course once the adc is good I wouldnt want to play any other support. Because janna rocks and truly makes those great adcs shine even more. But as soon as I am paired with someone in their offrole.. better pick Thresh, Zyra, Brand, blitzcrank. Because they can still defend a turret once the adc has suicided.

Meserion2/4/2015, 9:13:24 PM1 votes

cause supports have crappy base damage and crappy damage scaling, people want to do damage when they support and hardline supports do very little.

Knight SoIaire 2/4/2015, 9:26:29 PM1 votes

my personal opinions is that nowadays damage is just better than durability or utility so a mage with some sparse cc is actualy competing more to the game than full utility support

siilentdeath2/5/2015, 3:14:52 AM1 votes

my issues lie with the seudo support teemos. the teemo suuports that wont buy wards at all. then not setup kills for the adc then pilfer the kills from the adc. shrooms do not have a huge vision range.

Maple Crusader2/5/2015, 7:54:26 AM1 votes

I actually don't have a problem with mages going support, as long as they have cc, except for two exceptions: Vladimir and Mordekaiser. They bring no CC, and they simply operate better in solo lanes because they will need to rush expensive items. An annoying trend that I see with several mage supports is when they don't get Sightstones and don't even purchase gold generation items. These "supports" often just build AP as if they are laning at mid. If marksmen have to share farm with "supports" who just want to build AP, they will definitely be set behind because they will have to spend more time farming to be able to purchase crucial damage/crit/attackspeed items.

ImpossibleGT2/5/2015, 8:11:44 AM1 votes

That's because what defines a support has changed so drastically since the inception of the duo bot lane that taking an honest-to-goodness straight support bottom is just a wasted pick now. It used to be supports were defined by the utility they brought to a team with 0 cs. Janna is as useful at level 6 with no items as she is at level 18 for all intents and purposes. Same thing with Alistar. One-point-wonder skills were prevalent.

Now all you need to do to be a support is buy a Sightstone. Supports no longer need to be able function without gold. It's a little slower than solo lanes but they mostly keep parity with the rest of the team now. Which would be fine if there were actual support items to spend that money on, like the old Aegis of the Legion or Runic Bulwark. But there aren't. The aura items are too expensive and don't provide enough boost to your team to be worth it. So that leaves supports in the awkward spot of having gold which inevitably ends up getting spent on AP and health because they're the only reasonable stats to build. At this point, if you're playing a traditional support, you're literally just a worse mage. It is simply more valuable to pick an actual mage and bring the extra damage to the team while still supporting your team by warding and babysitting the ADC for awhile.

TL;DR - Increased gold generation for supports combined with the lack of efficient support items beyond Sightstone has lead to supports simply being midlane-lite.