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Okay Riot, I don't care how hard it is to do, just do it

Plasma Servant··2 votes·706 views

Every time I hear someone say it can't be done, I think "Certainly not by you; you have admitted you aren't smart enough to do it." What I'm talking about is balance all champions not only for ranked and the rift, but for Howling Abyss as well.

Yes, it will be way more difficult that what you have done so far. It will mean that any champion that has insane amounts of damage will by necessity have to be easy to kill. It will mean that tanks/brusers will have to choose between damage and survival. But that is doable.

It will mean that champions that are way op need to be nerfed. It does NOT mean that any champion needs to be buffed (you can balance all by nerfing). In fact, I'd recommend riot that you refrain from balance by buff for the next 4 seasons ... do all your balancing by nerfing the rest of the champions if need be.

You can start by putting real cd times on all champions and removing all reset of timers for all champions (really? you have a cd of 0.1 seconds on yas? ... get real ... with a 40% cdr, that goes to 0.06 seconds ... NORMAL internet latency times are on that order of magnitude, which means it is zero cd).

It doesn't work. Nor is it balanced on H.A. and you have to balance all maps, not just the one that ranked uses.

Riot, GET REAL! if you really are too stupid to accomplish it, release the source for the open source community to make it happen.

21 Comments

CreationFlaw6 votes

[deleted]

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

{quoted}

I think you're to stupid to comprehend what the point behind Howling Abyss is. The point of the gamemode is to be unbalanced with random comps, some are synergistic while other are complete crap, that's the point. "Balancing" makes it boring. If you have a bad comp, be smarter, if you can't, hell yeah you're going to lose.

^

as evidenced by how shitty URF became when they tried to "balance" it

disregardable4 votes

I liked urf. :(

I wish it came back every month or two.

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Kkk5vnUE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-01T16:14:24.455+0000)

I liked urf. :(

I wish it came back every month or two.

I liked URF then they removed champions, then I wanted to like it again and they nerfed supports for it despite the fact that many other champions were a lot more oppressing, AND HOLY F*CK BEING RIDICULOUSLY STRONG WAS THE POINT OF THIS MODE.

your dill king1 votes

it was a little silly having Kassidin being able to ult every second. LOL

let's see, 80% cd --> 20% of standard ... standard was 3 seconds, so it was every .6 for an ult ... and no limit to the power it could deal (he used to double the mana cost and the damage dealt for successive casts of his ult).

DrCyanide1 votes

Same, but it felt like the first iteration was better.

Teleport+Revive for the win!

your dill king1 votes

I liked urf as well ... it seems like they get something fun, and then stop it. I never understand that. It's almost like riot is afraid of something being more fun.

The Sword Saint1 votes

On Featured Game Modes

1374341 votes

URF is fun, but lets be honest after a little bit gets stale as a meta involving the most OP champions forms and people rage if you don't select one of those champs. If you read the boards the final week of URK (especially the second time) you would find many complaining about how serious people were starting to take the mode.

It is a mode that needs to only be around in short bursts...if it was constant it would just be like dominion in which very few people actually play it. With ARAM at least you don't control who you are playing and the team comps.

your dill king1 votes

With H.A., you should be able to control the champion ... and the team comp. There is nothing inherently wrong with H.A. as a mode ... URF I can agree is a little outlandish ... but there is nothing in H.A. that requires random, nor that it is absurd. While snowdown is a little crazy with the poro king and no spells beyond the two set spells, there is no reason it has to be that way.

Plasma Servant2 votes

The point of the gamemode is to be unbalanced with random comps

No, it is not. It is NOT the point. It is the point to have varying champions and team comp, but that does NOT have to mean unbalanced. And let me point out what you obviously missed in the original post. It says NOTHING about ARAM, it says Howling Abyss. Nothing about the Howling abyss has to be random (snowdown is blind pick and that mode should also be on H.A.). You obviously aren't thinking out of the box, which is what my OP was telling riot to do.

You don't understand what the post is about. It is about breaking the mold that riot has senselessly stuck to ... that the only important map is the rift. They can make every map as serious as every other.

And like I said in the opening statement

Every time I hear someone say it can't be done, I think "Certainly not by you; you have admitted you aren't smart enough to do it."

if all you can do it say "that's the point" then you have already ceded the premise of the original statement. The point is that it won't be easy. That smaller minds won't be able to comprehend it possible. I'm very good at H.A., but that doesn't mean it isn't frustrating as all get out if the champions aren't balanced on H.A. as well as the rift. It can be done, but only by those who aren't so blind as to think it can't (or shouldn't) be done.

H.A. has the potential to be the best (most fun) game mode in league. But it won't happen if they don't actually try to make it so. If people who don't know how would stop saying "it can't be done" and get out of the way, it not only could be done, but would be done.

1374341 votes

[{quoted}](name=Plasma Servant,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Kkk5vnUE,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-01-01T17:27:32.305+0000) H.A. has the potential to be the best (most fun) game mode in league. But it won't happen if they don't actually try to make it so. If people who don't know how would stop saying "it can't be done" and get out of the way, it not only could be done, but would be done.

H.A. is a map, not a gamemode. If you are not talking about ARAM you need to be specific about what you have in mind instead of complaining that riot is not "thinking outside the box."

your dill king1 votes

I am not talking explicitly about ARAM. I'm talking H.A. blind pick, normal rules, (I'd even take draft pick/ranked).

The Sword Saint1 votes

People have answered already - of course it could be done with enough man hours put into design and playtesting iterations. But unless riot decides to suddenly hire a ton of new people who would be dedicated to 'balancing' the mode, doing so would drain resources away from summoners rift.

And riot has been very very clear in the past that they prefer to have one primary game mode that they can put all their resources in to make it the best it can be.

Every random person who posts on the forums with an ego doesn't get to have millions of dollars thrown at their idea, that's just not how it works.

your dill king1 votes

okay, then release the code to the open source community. Tomcat is open source ... it is also the single most used (and profitable) HTTP server in the world. If they can't do it because of manpower, there are parts of the code that they could open source, still keep the servers (I doubt anyone would want the server bills to host competition in any case).

If they can only have one mode, then at least change the mode ... rift is the most boring of mode (well, I might agree C.S. is a little worse ... LOL) but rift is just a boring map, a boring mode, and worse for the fact that "ranked" players feel like it isn't a game (until they get into a different map/mode). If they really feel that way, eliminate all the other modes completely. It takes resources to produce the maps, manage the servers, maintain the codebase, track configuration, support real bugs and all the rest. If they can't do it right, then they should just get out of it. At least then those of us that really don't like rift would know we absolutely should go elsewhere and just let riot die.

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

It isn't about smarts, and you show significant ignorance of real-life jobs for trying to make it about that.

Balance is mostly about play-testing. You can have all the great ideas in the world, but a computer can't correctly account for matchups, risk/reward dynamics, etc. It's not just about calculating the maximum possible damage from ratios and cdr. If it were that easy, they WOULD have it balanced already.

What you are asking for takes an incredible number of man-hours to do. And Riot would LOVE to do it, I'm sure! So as soon as you pony up several million to pay personnel to do it, they'd be happy to do so! Good luck!

EDIT: And as far as the community goes... have you seen boards? Have you seen some of the things people ask for on here? No, community would never succeed. We'd make it far worse than it is right now.

Plasma Servant1 votes

Hmmmm....

It isn't about smarts, and you show significant ignorance of real-life jobs for trying to make it about that.

I tend to wonder ... I've probably worked longer than you have lived. The vast majority of that time in IT as a software engineer. So just maybe, I might not be so ignorant as what you think. There is a reason why some companies do extremely well in producing software and systems ... they hire the best and the brightest. In my experience, it is about smarts when it comes to software engineering. It isn't about putting time in, about how the workforce is organized ... it is about having the smartest people you can find, giving them the goal and showing them why it is important, getting them the right tools and getting out of the way. Of course that is "smarts" on the part of management.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I mean, with the anonymity of the internet, it's kinda hard to give proof in either direction.

I do have secondhand (and I do mean second, not third or fourth) knowledge of their recruiting, and they only take the best and the brightest at Riot. The recruiters I've talked to actually complained, a little, about how picky they were, but were quick to follow up by saying that when you're the best, you can afford to be picky. This is specifically with regard to their software engineers, actually.

So for you to call them out for something I have direct, contrary experience with... makes you sound ignorant. It may not be true, but it certainly seems that way to me. In my experience, those that complain typically don't understand the problem. Those that truly understand it and have passion for it just go fix it.

In this case, that would be by making a better game, or by joining Riot and making that balance happen yourself. Neither seems to have happened here, so for the time being, I'm gonna hold onto my original opinion.

Akenero3 votes

Aram's differences lie in the sheer fact that its a teamfighting map.

Successful champions are able to consistently and constantly teamfight from level 1 onwards, while champions such as tryndamere are more suited to single target fighting. Aram by definition is impossible to balance without it literally changing the entirety of any given champion's kits.

Imagine if in SR nasus could teamfight at level 1 with the same power that lux can, and still be in laning phase, to balance this, his q and w would be GUTTED to accommodate this, and the meta would revolve around constant roams, meaning immobile champions are now uselessly outclassed by anything with mobility, junglers would only ever be ganking junglers, while farm and control junglers are shafted. The support role would also be limited to champions with amazing anti-siege and ad carries would be removed from the meta. Conversely, nerfing champions would create a meta based on laning, where teamfights are so weak, and can last so long, that pushing is the only good option, farm junglers would literally just get strong enough to solo towers and get out, while the support would switch to a kill tactic.

The modes are different for reasons.

Plasma Servant1 votes

Successful champions are able to consistently and constantly teamfight from level 1 onwards,

I suppose I ought to point out that H.A. doesn't have a level 1. It starts at level 3. So most of what you are thinking doesn't apply, but just to answer ...

Imagine if in SR nasus could teamfight at level 1 with the same power that lux can

And nasus on H.A. is fairly equal to a lux with both at level 3. His e zones out other champions well.

and the meta would revolve around constant roams, meaning immobile champions are now uselessly outclassed by anything with mobility

And that is balanced? It wouldn't be in my book. You keep setting up straw man arguments. The instant you say "this would not work because one class of champion would be better than another" you just said it wasn't balanced correctly. It is a straw man ... you have setup an argument that you know won't work, even if the argument isn't the only way to do things. You'd make a great politician. LOL

PabloMaster543212 votes

TRUE DIS

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