Talon's E (cutthroat) is a 3% damage amplification until level 15, and 0.25 second slow/root...

Cloak an Dagger·Sep 13, 2015·5 votes·744 views

This ability is garbage. The silence was literally the only thing good about this ability and you still leveled it last. I would sacrifice this ability for something relevant. It really only exacerbates his feast or famine problem since by the time the E (cutthroat) is maxed you have already reached late game at which point you probably didn't fall behind and be useless the entire game. You also probably do plenty of damage at this point to the relevant targets that the 15% is overkill anyway. Talon is Riot's red headed stepchild whom they take out all their frustration on. Call him a stress ball if you will.

18 Comments

SKOBODOSep 13, 20153 votes

It's still a 700 range instant gapcloser on a burst assassin. What if his E interrupted channels?

Cloak an DaggerSep 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's still a 700 range instant gapcloser on a burst assassin. What if his E interrupted channels?

18 seconds is a long time to be committed to an all in without dying. The way you worded his ability made it actually sound good. I'm impressed. It's still garbage. My suggestion wasn't really a good one I was just throwing out a thought since he is supposed to be an assassin but everyone and their mother has hard cc and high mobility these days.

SKOBODOSep 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

18 seconds is a long time to be committed to an all in without dying. The way you worded his ability made it actually sound good. I'm impressed. It's still garbage. My suggestion wasn't really a good one I was just throwing out a thought since he is supposed to be an assassin but everyone and their mother has hard cc and high mobility these days.

18 seconds with 0 CDR. Late game it's 10 seconds, with 40% CDR that's 6 seconds. Maybe his E should "cripple"? That's a new for of cc Riot has been talking about that disables mobility abilities such as Flash and Ezreal's E for a moment. That would help him a bit, though it might be too much of a buff unless they nerf something else.

It's really not a weak ability though, 700 range instant is pretty crazy. Most ADCs won't even be able to attack him without him gapclosing on them. Xin Zhao's E is 600, and it's not instant (it can be interrupted by Janna's E and skillshots). Talon's is a blink, not a dash.

Cloak an DaggerSep 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

18 seconds with 0 CDR. Late game it's 10 seconds, with 40% CDR that's 6 seconds. Maybe his E should "cripple"? That's a new for of cc Riot has been talking about that disables mobility abilities such as Flash and Ezreal's E for a moment. That would help him a bit, though it might be too much of a buff unless they nerf something else.

It's really not a weak ability though, 700 range instant is pretty crazy. Most ADCs won't even be able to attack him without him gapclosing on them. Xin Zhao's E is 600, and it's not instant (it can be interrupted by Janna's E and skillshots). Talon's is a blink, not a dash.

Again, lategame isn't an issue. He's perfectly fine in the lategame. It's getting there that is the issue. His laning is a nightmare in most matchups because he is melee and he is mana gated but has to prioritize Attack damage/Armour penetration because that is all he scales off of for dps. Cooldown reduction, Critical strike chance and lifesteal are luxury stats he can only afford if he isn't already boned from minutes 1-10

SKOBODOSep 13, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Again, lategame isn't an issue. He's perfectly fine in the lategame. It's getting there that is the issue. His laning is a nightmare in most matchups because he is melee and he is mana gated but has to prioritize Attack damage/Armour penetration because that is all he scales off of for dps. Cooldown reduction, Critical strike chance and lifesteal are luxury stats he can only afford if he isn't already boned from minutes 1-10

What if they gave him some mana back if he last hits with his Q?

Cloak an DaggerSep 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What if they gave him some mana back if he last hits with his Q?

That is a very good suggestion +1

Nameless VoiceSep 13, 20151 votes

It's a targeted mobility spell with actual risk associated with using it by having a significant cooldown.

That's how mobility spells should be. The problem is that too many newer champions have too much mobility without much risk or cost.

Blade of JusticSep 13, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It's still a 700 range instant gapcloser on a burst assassin. What if his E interrupted channels?

Honestly, interrupting channels would stop Katharina from countering him.

Cloak an DaggerSep 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KgG8exPG,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-09-13T10:49:43.456+0000)

Honestly, interrupting channels would stop Katharina from countering him.

That is a good example. Removing his silence literally reversed the matchup 360

DesideriumSep 13, 20152 votes

So he'd go back to countering Katarina? Working as intended.

Blade of JusticSep 13, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomb of Insomnia,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KgG8exPG,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2015-09-13T10:54:18.350+0000)

So he'd go back to countering Katarina? Working as intended.

Exactly. That's why it should happen.

It shouldn't have ever not been the first thing in the Silence's place.

SKOBODOSep 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KgG8exPG,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-09-13T10:49:43.456+0000)

Honestly, interrupting channels would stop Katharina from countering him.

Indeed. Would this be a bad thing? They're both assassins, but Talon is more of a "1v1 I burst you assassin", while Katarina is more of a "It's a teamfight and I clean up if I want to".

CppLSep 13, 20151 votes

And what changes you would prefer? Also if they buff his E they have to nerf something else.

Cloak an DaggerSep 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And what changes you would prefer? Also if they buff his E they have to nerf something else.

They could have his passive. It's garbage also for the most part. If they stealth removed his passive I doubt anyone would notice until someone told them.

CppLSep 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They could have his passive. It's garbage also for the most part. If they stealth removed his passive I doubt anyone would notice until someone told them.

Well its 10% more dmg.Real talon mains would notice that lol

Cloak an DaggerSep 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well its 10% more dmg.Real talon mains would notice that lol

Real Talon mains unless they are playing at a diamond or higher elo probably wouldn't and the ones maining him at that elo and not dropping LP like a hot potato are gods. Also it's not "10% more damage" it's "Talon's basic attacks deal 10% increased damage to enemies that are slowed, stunned, rooted or suppressed.

LeeerzeichenSep 13, 20151 votes

Look at for example fizz: he gets 4-14 less damage from basic attacks and ignores unit collision. His complete passiv is only effective against lane minions (unless you stack armor)

Cloak an DaggerSep 13, 20151 votes

My main point is an assassin should be a good duelist but being so item dependent it would be a boon to have some utility to help you get to the point where you are able to do what you were intended to do.