REMINDER TO MORELLO: "I'd like to do to Zyra...make her MORE about plants, and less burst mage"-2013

5G8Nri0B54·Feb 1, 2015·58 votes·4,175 views

The primary thing I'd like to do to Zyra is to make her MORE about plants, and less burst mage. I don't entirely know how this will effect which lane, but I do understand the sentiment to the bottom lane vs mid lane approach. This has been why we've been conservative so far (the missile speed change was just something we should have released with)

...

I think it brings out more about what's unique about Zyra.

...

It's going to be MADNESS.

...okay I just like that random final quote.

I don't even know if you're still in Riot. But...I will NOT rest until she is balanced around the midlane over Support again! There is something to be said when you decide to give her a SUPPORT's recommended build.

98 Comments

SleepyLionCubFeb 1, 201526 votes

She should feel like a plant.

She shouldnt be able to move, and is constantly rooted into the ground. And instead of mana, she uses solar power, and takes double damage from fire types.

AnOstrichWithPMSFeb 1, 201519 votes

{quoted}

She should feel like a plant.

She shouldnt be able to move, and is constantly rooted into the ground. And instead of mana, she uses solar power, and takes double damage from fire types.

so Leona makes her stronger?

NarasimhaFeb 1, 201531 votes

Yes, if Zyra gets hit by Leona's ult, she can cast Solar Beam instantly.

19 19 19Feb 1, 201511 votes

{quoted}

Yes, if Zyra gets hit by Leona's ult, she can cast Solar Beam instantly.

IM DONE LOL

blueberrypancakeFeb 2, 20153 votes

Best Pokemon reference ever xD. What about give Zyra a buff called Sunny Day when that happens.

PureMysticFeb 2, 20153 votes

Actually currently, if Leona hits Zyra with her ult Zyra's character model grows slightly. Zyra the more you know Leona

KingsgraveFeb 1, 201510 votes

Morello is ENTP

He just spews random ideas with no intent on doing anything with them

Kitten of EvilFeb 1, 20151 votes

Hey! I'm an ENTP too. No ENTP-shaming on these forums please!

KingsgraveFeb 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KfMfi9pl,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2015-02-01T21:41:25.979+0000)

Hey! I'm an ENTP too. No ENTP-shaming on these forums please!

I didn't know stating facts was shaming. Eh, I guess thats just how ISTPs like me come off usually.

Kitten of EvilFeb 1, 20152 votes

Oh, I was kidding. I just thought it was funny that you brought up his MBTI.

AuryielFeb 1, 20154 votes

That could easily be done by reducing the damage, mana cost and cooldown of her Q and E and reducing the recharge time of her W and increasing the time the seeds are invulnerable Also make the plant's durability scale pretty hard with AP

Result : instead of having a Zyra that pops two plants per team fight, you get one that pops 4-6 beefier plants

You know... that actually sounds like a LOT of fun I'm kinda worried about what that would to to her farming ability, though. Maybe make the plants deal damage to minions when they burst out of their seeds to compensate or something? That favors mid over support too

5G8Nri0B54Feb 1, 20154 votes

She'll hardly be the first mage with terribly farming capabilities.

But yeah you get the idea.

Also make the plant's durability scale pretty hard with AP

You know what the REALLY fucking facepalmy thing is?

Whenever people bring up the possibility of moving power to her plants, there are always the dumbasses who ASSUME that a Zyra with more emphasis on plants....will keep the current squishy plants, that the plants won't be adjusted to fit such a style.

Or that there are people who think she will completely overshadow Heimer just because Heimer has turrets too.

AuryielFeb 1, 20159 votes

She doesn't even remotely play like Heimerdinger...

The comparison is kinda flawed, imo

Heimer's turrets and Zyra's plants don't really fill the same roles. Yes, Zyra can use her plants for defensive plays, but they're also great for harass. Heimer's turrets? Not so much lol

Besides, Zyra's whole kit (well except her shitty passive that should be changed) revovles around her plants, while Heimer's is hardly cohesive at all

People who think that Zyra would overshadow Heimer should be ignored XD

5G8Nri0B54Feb 1, 20152 votes

Yeah I never brought up Heimerdinger. It was...ahem...look further up (or down...depending on how you sort your comments)

Drunk RummateFeb 2, 20154 votes

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

don't ask them to rework zyra. she isnt perfect but shes fun, and every time they touch a champion I like, I end up hating it forever. RIP Gragas, Nidalee, Ahri

5G8Nri0B54Feb 2, 20152 votes

I'd agree if it wasn't for the fact that she's already been thoroughly touched...

SaevumFeb 1, 20153 votes

Sup Ginga. So, you found something else to thread up? that's nice.

Now that we mentioned threads (heh 'we') do you have a future Cass related thread shortly? Just saying, would be nice too. Cheers.

5G8Nri0B54Feb 1, 20156 votes

Yes...I do...

Funny enough I play multiple champions in a game with 120+ champion. It just so happens that Riot SPECIFICALLY effs around with the ones I fall in love with. Twitch...Cassiopeia...Zyra...Urgot

The biggest kick in the ass is that I played all of those champions LONG before they became FOTM.

(I swear to god if the sheeps lay their dirty paw on my Swain prompting Riot to "fix" him)

As for Cassiopeia, yeah. Stashu if you're reading this. Read the 100+ threads on Cassiopeia created since your absence since 4.21

AnOstrichWithPMSFeb 1, 20153 votes

k rework zyra to be heimerdinger 2.0 and then buff heimerdinger to be 3.0

5G8Nri0B54Feb 1, 20153 votes

Heimer is all about permanent turrets.

And if you're seriously so afraid of her becoming Heimer 2.0, remember that we have one Heimerdinger. But half a million burst mages.

AnOstrichWithPMSFeb 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Heimer is all about permanent turrets.

And if you're seriously so afraid of her becoming Heimer 2.0, remember that we have one Heimerdinger. But half a million burst mages.

permanent turrets that die in 1 hit to everything

straight4freeFeb 2, 20153 votes

Ginga you never rest when it comes to asking for reworks.

Zyra is my main support, but keep pretending you've got the community's backing on this one.

edit: If Zyra hits a seed with her passive, it explodes dealing X damage in AoE.

I don't like Zyra's passive too much but I don't necessarily think it needs to go.

Leblancs BoobFeb 1, 20152 votes

Well Azir already exists. How would you make Zyra have more plant-based damage without making her a terrible version of Azir?

5G8Nri0B54Feb 1, 20154 votes

The answer to that is so obvious I have no idea how you haven't thought of it before finishing that sentence...

Zyra's plants have independence. They don't need no stinking champion to order each and every single attack.

19 19 19Feb 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

The answer to that is so obvious I have no idea how you haven't thought of it before finishing that sentence...

Zyra's plants have independence. They don't need no stinking champion to order each and every single attack.

Problem I'm having with this is the balance team, I'm scared they will destroy Zyra by ignoring us and creating their own fantasy like what they did with cassiopeia.... I really want this new Zyra Project be based on the community's suggestion rather than themselves.

Leblancs BoobFeb 1, 20152 votes

What? Zyra most certainly controls her plants just by AA'ing any target. If you're not controlling her plant aggro by weaving AA's in between her spells then you're playing her horribly wrong. Having her plants act independently from Zyra is a terrible design and I hope that never happens.

5G8Nri0B54Feb 1, 20153 votes

They ALREADY act independently of your actions. You just have the ability to direct their aggro if they're hitting the wrong target.

SpecterVonBarenFeb 1, 20152 votes

I think the thing we should consider in making Zyra unique from Heimer and Azir is how those two use their "pets". Heimer basically makes a bunker and then dares anyone to try and take it from him. Azir on the other hand is more like a mobile army that goes wherever it's needed. So how can we make Zyra different from these two? Maybe make her plants less offensive and more defensive, like, give Zyra a lot of power if her plants are out but also have it so she needs her plants to keep the enemy off her? Kind of like if Zyra is a powerful cannon with her plants being guards to keep the enemy from getting to her. Just one idea.

5G8Nri0B54Feb 2, 20154 votes

Yeah I don't think fearing she will overlap with Azir will EVER be a concern. Anyone who ever played both champions can easily tell you that.

As for how I view them. Heimer is the bunker who hunkers down as you said. But I view Zyra as a swarm who relies on overhwelming numbers. She can be either a defensive garden or a mass of creeping predatory plants. But she will always make the enemy feel overwhelmed by sheer numbers.

AwoofFeb 2, 20152 votes

As far as I remember Morello's suggestion of shifting Zyra from a burst mage to a more plant-focused dps mage was met with a backlash of downvotes, and he took it the majority of players were against it. So I don't think those two years were spent on working on that.

5G8Nri0B54Feb 2, 20152 votes

Yeah but eventually all those downvotes were drowned out by upvotes till it's in a positive in the end.

Only other times he was downvoted was due to a stupid semantics war on the definition of an APC...

ImHerVoiceFeb 2, 20152 votes

you should see how gutted AP janna is.

nerf base stats- Call it utility scaling (need 280+ AP to make up for lost base stats)

Nerf width. NO Q AP scaling buff. Nerf zeypher. No Scaling Buff. Whats next? Change her R to suck people in? Lmfao.

GaleWinUnleashedFeb 2, 20151 votes

And yet she's still awesome. Still my most played support, and I don't have any reason to change that.

ImHerVoiceFeb 3, 20151 votes

yeah Idgaf about support janna. She's so easy to play support with a low elo could get her to 70%+ winrate easily.

19 19 19Feb 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

yeah Idgaf about support janna. She's so easy to play support with a low elo could get her to 70%+ winrate easily.

her ult.... ugh.

SaevumFeb 1, 20151 votes

And to contribute your current thread.

He said 'like'. You know, 'like' & 'business' are not the closest of friends. Just saying.

However, i would like to see that Zyra experimentation too.

5G8Nri0B54Feb 1, 20153 votes

Yeah I know that he said "like".

But at the end of the day, I want her to return to midlane in her former glory again. The biggest kick in the nuts that they fully admitted that at the time of her nerf, she was completely balanced in midlane.

At the very least bring her back to a point where her recommended items doesn't scream Supprot any longer.

SaevumFeb 3, 20151 votes

At the very least bring her back to a point where her recommended items doesn't scream Supprot any longer.

Item recommendations are just that. The thing would be major changes to the scaling or the kit itself.

SammystormFeb 1, 20151 votes

He isn't in balance any more.

5G8Nri0B54Feb 1, 20152 votes

I can't find it anymore. But I remember him once saying "I am no where, and everywhere" when people asked him if he balances...

19 19 19Feb 1, 20151 votes

If Zyra's plants were the same level as heimer's turret then people will rarely use her as a support since her plants would be taking the CS. Remember, Heimer's secondary is also a support.

As for syndra her Secondary is a support she can be 2x more deadly than zyra support (I've tried it)

5G8Nri0B54Feb 1, 20152 votes

Yeah I don't think Secondary Role necessarily work like that. Or is intended to.

The primary is how you're really intended to play the champion. Secondary is a quality that describes their primary. For instance, when a primary role is Mage, having Support in Secondary implies they are Utility mages, not necessarily that Riot is suggesting you try to bring them botlane to be a 0 CS support. Take Orianna as a prime example. She NEEDS the farm badly

KoKobotoFeb 2, 20151 votes

Hey im ENTP as well :D And yes as ENTP it is usually hard to follow completely with an idea as ENTP generally have more and more ideas that keep on going around but if we are able to lock down on a idea finally we will make sure that it comes out with a perfect result, ahhh ENTP the walking oxymoron its sucks but is also awesome

On topic lol, I think that Zyra should feel more like a plant cause I love Zyra but shes only like 50% plant, and I kinda wish she like did more plant like actions, shes not really a plant but a lady who controls them which I understand from her lore but it'd be nice to see more plant in her like, she could disperse into a plant or something kinda like how Zac is constantly moving as a blob, Zyra can constantly have her body moving around a bit as a plant that is rapidly growing or w/e

5G8Nri0B54Feb 2, 20153 votes

ENTP

-looks around-

I-I'm not the only person around here who immediately understood what he meant by that and where it came from right?

Nausicäa Feb 2, 20151 votes

PBE CHANGES TO ZYRA...............and its ranged indicators for her plants..... yay.

5G8Nri0B54Feb 2, 20151 votes

AP mid Zyra is ba-...ack...?

Ash LockheartFeb 2, 20151 votes

Lol if she gets changed I can only imagine the out cry, and she won't ever be played agein. I know I won't player her again.

5G8Nri0B54Feb 2, 20153 votes

Oh so you mean like the outcry of AP mid players when Riot screwed her up so she can only support?

If you do well with her in midlane now, it's only because your lane opponent is a dumbass.

19 19 19Feb 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Oh so you mean like the outcry of AP mid players when Riot screwed her up so she can only support?

If you do well with her in midlane now, it's only because your lane opponent is a dumbass.

I'm kinda annoyed the fact that Azir and Heimer can summon up to 3 while Zyra is only able to summon up to 2 -_-

hell Even malzahar can summon up to 3, I've seen it.

Champion SkinFeb 3, 20151 votes

Zyra can have more then 2... haven't you seen Zyra in URF mode? Zyra have max 2 charges... max 4 seeds on the ground... and unlimited activated plants (though of course they are limited by their duration and Zyra's cooldowns )