I could care less that he runs away like a coward the entire fight mashing E, I don't give a shit if his wind wall blocks ults or not, or how much free crit chance he gets.
My issue with Yasuo is when he ults you under tower, the scripting behind it places him at the outmost range of a turret, just out of range to be hit.
Having this done for you automatically is a little absurd, other than that his kit is fine.
The JigSAW32 votesHis kit really isn't fine.
No champion should have double crit, 50% bonus armor pen for 15 seconds on ult, a wind wall blocking all projectiles for 4 seconds that can't be stopped, a 0.5 second cooldown on an ability at level 1 (E) and a shield that regenerates during combat. They nerf Swain, Anivia, and shortly a few assassins are taking some nerfs but this giant disaster that never should have gotten out of the concept desk is allowed to have the best of everything? The "nerf" with his bonus armor pen is a sham, it now is every critical strike which is all the time when he has -two- items so its not a nerf at all.
At least two of those things have to be removed, he'll still be strong but not so ridiculously able to destroy tanks and adcs and anything else in his way so easily. People used to make a big fuss about Kassadin and LeBlanc and Jax, but this guy makes them look like siege minions!
the weeaboo2 votes[{quoted}](name=SKT T1 Jigsaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW3fnMGz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-01T15:24:55.015+0000)
His kit really isn't fine.
No champion should have double crit, 50% bonus armor pen for 15 seconds on ult, a wind wall blocking all projectiles for 4 seconds that can't be stopped, a 0.5 second cooldown on an ability at level 1 (E) and a shield that regenerates during combat. They nerf Swain, Anivia, and shortly a few assassins are taking some nerfs but this giant disaster that never should have gotten out of the concept desk is allowed to have the best of everything? The "nerf" with his bonus armor pen is a sham, it now is every critical strike which is all the time when he has -two- items so its not a nerf at all.
At least two of those things have to be removed, he'll still be strong but not so ridiculously able to destroy tanks and adcs and anything else in his way so easily. People used to make a big fuss about Kassadin and LeBlanc and Jax, but this guy makes them look like siege minions!
Originally the problem was with Top Yasuo using all bruiser items rather than going Crit like intended. They fixed that so he doesn't have as much damage without Crit.
The JigSAW6 votesThey need to re-evaluate the entire champion. I've used a few builds where I was able to destroy Nasus, Malphite, and a few other tanks with 3-4 items based on his crit, lifesteal, and the shield/dash/etc that allowed him to survive what a regular melee fighter would be dead from. I mean I get the lifelong Yasuo mains downvoting anytime I speak the truth because they are afraid he might turn into an actual champ requiring an iota of skill to use, but then again top lane Yasuo is usually not much of a problem when you use Gnar, Darius, Riven, Pantheon, etc. They claim they want to remove unhealthy mechanics, but yet he is untouched patch after patch.
the weeaboo1 votes[{quoted}](name=SKT T1 Jigsaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW3fnMGz,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-01T15:33:29.850+0000)
They need to re-evaluate the entire champion. I've used a few builds where I was able to destroy Nasus, Malphite, and a few other tanks with 3-4 items based on his crit, lifesteal, and the shield/dash/etc that allowed him to survive what a regular melee fighter would be dead from. I mean I get the lifelong Yasuo mains downvoting anytime I speak the truth because they are afraid he might turn into an actual champ requiring an iota of skill to use, but then again top lane Yasuo is usually not much of a problem when you use Gnar, Darius, Riven, Pantheon, etc. They claim they want to remove unhealthy mechanics, but yet he is untouched patch after patch.
Somebody sounds salty. If he hasn't been touched patch after patch, then that means he fairly balanced. Do not group too close together, or near minions. Then he'll have lots of opportunities to dash and get multi champ knock ups. Away from minions loosely grouped you can destroy him. And I'm not even a Yasuo main.
The JigSAW1 votesI don't have issues fighting Yasuo. I destroy him 95% of the time, no matter who plays him. This is not a salty thread about things I can't defeat. I beat him just fine, but I'm explaining this is horrible for people in general to deal with, friends of mine and others who I teach the same tips and tricks to.
He is not balanced. By that logic so is Xin Zhao.
Ruin Lance5 votesyou're unranked though so it doesn't actually matter if you're destroying people in your games because i doubt any of them are above silver 3
The JigSAW4 votesUnranked by choice. However I was over silver 3 in the past. If you want to make me seem worse of a player because I don't do the toxic ranked schtick where you can legally get plats to make bronze smurfs and boost people up and its legal, then go right ahead. If you want a one on one maybe you'll turn into one of them.
Blåbæret5 votes[{quoted}](name=Ruin Lance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW3fnMGz,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2016-11-01T19:14:27.787+0000)
you're unranked though so it doesn't actually matter if you're destroying people in your games because i doubt any of them are above silver 3
Lmao, typical fallacy from the lack of a better arguement. Go back to school and learn how to construct real arguements. Kiddo.
LordGeovanni1 votesIm straight bronze and my Normals games some times have 3 golds on each side. You lack of room to arguement that drives you to have to look up some ones rank rather than look at the statement itself is a poor reflection on yourself.
Zaghyr1 votesYou know you are right? Sounds to me like you are just really salty. And you seriously think Yasuo takes no skill then enjoy the wrath of Yasuo mains everywhere.
TPA Jason1231 votesI agree with Zagpyr because yasuo does take skill. Just people are salty that they get rekt by good yasuos
The JigSAW1 votesNo such thing as a good Yasuo just someone who clicks faster. I've never had an issue being "rekt" by a Yasuo because I actually know how to counter him rather well, and take pride in how many I've destroyed.
His skill cap, I've already addressed. Seriously you people will do anything to prevent this guy from getting the fat nerf he deserves.
Zaghyr1 votesIf you are so good at destroying every Yasuo you play against, then why are you even complaining about his kit's design? If you destroy them so often then that means you obviously know how to counter him, meaning there is inherent counterplay to his kit that can be exploited. To me, counterplay like that indicates a decent level of balance.
The JigSAW1 votes..The wrath? I've killed almost every Yasuo I've faced, bring it on. My issues aren't with my own performance against the champion, my issues are with the design of the champion.
See ya in game. I'll be the guy with the voidlings...
Justin01 votesVoidlings sound like malzahar lol. "Yasuo take no skill", says the malzahar player. Malzahar has a bad design man, quit your whining.
JustMonika132 votes[{quoted}](name=SKT T1 Jigsaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW3fnMGz,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-01T15:33:29.850+0000)
So... apparently you haven't been paying much attention to the new class concepts / divisions. Yasuo is a skirmisher. His job description is literately killing everything in his path: tanks, ADCs, mages and all, with his extreme sustained damage (which all the other skirmishers do as well). Yeah, diver's (I assume you mean them since Juggernauts are a whole other issue) are going to have a problem dealing with tanky champions if not fed because they inherently have less damage than skirmishers but are tankier in order to make them into semi-initiators, and often they have a way to dive the main targets. I want you to play any skirmisher other than Yasuo into tanks and juggernauts like Malph and Nasus (whose name isn't Darius) and the skirmishers will often time be able to deal with them as well. Sustained damage > Tankiness (as long as kill potential from said tanky champion isn't Darius level) every time.
Now addressing your previous post, you want to remove certain things from Yasuo's kit? Remove his crit bonuses and he will need a boost to his AD stats and base ability damages because all melee fighters need some sort of steroid or sheer stats in order to be able to deal damage; they're not ADCs or Mages, they're putting themselves in danger in order to deal damage.
Remove his shield and he will need an MR and health boost (I say his current base armor is fine). He's one of the two melee champions that have zero growth on MR (the other being Kassadin). This is because he has his shield instead to help soak up damage that would otherwise kill him.
Remove the bonus armor pen on ult? Again, he will need some sort of steroid in his kit in order to do his job as a skirmisher. And if you'd take care to look at the other skirmishers, you would see that he's pretty much the one who's tank-killing steroid is the least accessible; it's tied to an ultimate ability that has the cooldown of one (albeit, negligible at rank 3). Fiora has her passive. Ekko has his passive and his W passive. Riven has her passive. Jax is Jax. Tryndamere is Tryndamere. Yi has his passive and his true damage. These all have their tank killing ability pretty much all the time. Yasuo doesn't.
Remove his dash spamming and his mobility will have to start being more open to defensive uses like all the other skirmishers. Yasuo has the best offensive mobility of the group and of the game (if you don't count Olaf's and Yi's ults), but his defensive mobility is subpar, especially in lane; he has no built in escape if his lane is pushed, and even then, you (and pretty much most people) ignore the fact that he's unique for the fact that his dash is the only one that is interrupted by all hard movement CC, when all other dashes are only stopped by airborne effects / displacements.
Remove his windwall and again he'll probably need a few bonus stat boosts, and of course another skill to replace it. I can't argue against this other than the fact that CC is extremely deadly to Yasuo (inb4: CC screws up everybody. True, but to different degrees, and it punishes Yasuo the hardest). And how much does it cost a team to invest in melee and/or non-projectile CC? Or, you know, simply walk through or past the wall?
And to be honest, if Riot saw an issue, they would have dealt with it. Recently they slaughtered Azir and Kalista. They would have trashed him just the same if it was justified. Also, historically, Yasuo has been pretty much hit with nothing but nerfs since his release. A few buffs (I think) and lots of bugfixes, but mostly nerfs. All of them are justifiable. I still wouldn't be surprised if Yasuo was on the list for a major rework in a class update shall they cover skirmishers or fighters as a whole. Why? Because I acknowledge that Yasuo can be extremely annoying to play against, but annoying to play against =/= broken or overpowered. He does need some toning down to his frustration factor, and his snowballing potential, but removing (instead of nerfing) entire parts of his kit need to be paid back because as he is he needs pretty much all of it.
RogueWill1 votesHere is my problem with Yasuo and why I think he is not quite a skirmished but more towards a weird marksman. As a tank, if a skirmisher throws everything at me I'm full aware he/she is going to kill me but he/she will be very vulnerable for at least the next 3-5 sec so my team can clean up, plus their damage woudl be considerable hinder. Take Fiora for example, she probably can kill any tank with the passive ult and bladework but it will take her an ult and a moderate cd ability (bladework) now she has 4 sec where the best she can do is lunge out and maybe riposte to stay alive (the big heal from her ult can also work but you can push her out of it). Yasuo doesn't have this problem because if he pours eveything on me the only things he is going to be missign is his ult, His Q and E cool downs are practically non-existent so his damage is not hindered at all by pouring everything into me, assuming I poped his passive at the beggining of the fight by the time he kills me it will be back up since it stacks fairly fast, so he doesn't get punished by bad focus at all.
I'll rather have his Armor pen moved to his E (obviously adjusted accordingly to the standard 10%) and remove his E+Q interaction (the unavoidable knock up). That way he will have to think more about using his ult instead of did the knock up hit more than 2 people? yes then ult.
JustMonika131 votesHere is my problem with Yasuo and why I think he is not quite a skirmished but more towards a weird marksman. As a tank, if a skirmisher throws everything at me I'm full aware he/she is going to kill me but he/she will be very vulnerable for at least the next 3-5 sec so my team can clean up, plus their damage woudl be considerable hinder. Take Fiora for example, she probably can kill any tank with the passive ult and bladework but it will take her an ult and a moderate cd ability (bladework) now she has 4 sec where the best she can do is lunge out and maybe riposte to stay alive (the big heal from her ult can also work but you can push her out of it). Yasuo doesn't have this problem because if he pours eveything on me the only things he is going to be missign is his ult, His Q and E cool downs are practically non-existent so his damage is not hindered at all by pouring everything into me, assuming I poped his passive at the beggining of the fight by the time he kills me it will be back up since it stacks fairly fast, so he doesn't get punished by bad focus at all.
I'll rather have his Armor pen moved to his E (obviously adjusted accordingly to the standard 10%) and remove his E+Q interaction (the unavoidable knock up). That way he will have to think more about using his ult instead of did the knock up hit more than 2 people? yes then ult.
I will, in turn, ask you to take a look at the other AA reliant Skirmishers: Jax, Yi, and Tryn. They too will often have their cooldowns off pretty quickly, and if not they are equally content beating you to death and face tanking anyone that isn't a fed ADC. Ekko, Riven, and Fiora are the ones who are more reliant on their abilities and I won't argue against that. Just because someone is in the same group doesn't mean they have to have equal windows of opportunity and power. Darius is a laning monster, while Nasus is the AFK farming I'll come to crush you in 35 minutes behemoth. Katarina is the teamfight AoE damage assassin (thankfully something being conserved in her rework) while Zed seeks to eliminate the highest priority target and then run before the enemy reacts if played correctly. Back to the topic at hand, even Fiora can chose to stay around really. Her Q isn't on too long of a cooldown at max rank (also considering she builds at leas 20% CDR in Black Cleaver) and it's even lower if she hits a target with it. She can chose to dance around a target if she chooses to in order to wait for her cooldowns, give her team enough time to provide support, or kill if she wants. Also take into account that Fiora is a split pusher and not a teamfight monster like Yasuo, though Yasuo can split push as well. And even if Yasuo has more chances to use his abilities, if your team reacts accordingly, and Yasuo isn't stupidly fed, he too will be crushed in a clean-up attempt. Again, his dashes are completely interrupted by CC.
See, what you're suggesting is a lot more reasonable than asking for complete removal of some part of his kit. I'll admit I don't like it though; his E + Q is a very large part of the fun and the fluidity of his kit, but he can arguably do without it. Maybe code it so that the knock up Q can't proc with E + Q, though I'm not sure if it's even possible to pull off in code.
FantasySniper1 votesThey didn't fix it, he's still building 
and taking like one-tenth of the damage that he's dealing.
Dabrick012 votesHis kit is easy to learn, yes. I completely agree.
The skill cap that he brings in split second decision making.
Sure some of the things he has in his kit can be unfair. Only if you are a sad idiot who bitches on the boards about something he knows little about.
TPA Jason1231 votesOnly people that have experienced him can actually talk about how he is.
Dabrick011 votesYou get it when no one else will.
The JigSAW1 votesGive me a break. I've destroyed almost every Yasuo I've faced and will continue to do so. He has no skill cap, keep trying to promote the lie so you can beat players with a broken champion who someday will get the same nerf as Jax, Kassadin, and LeBlanc after they finally realize how ridiculous he is.
Dabrick011 votesYOU have got to be kidding me. If 
does not have a skill cap whatsoever then 
and 
have no skill cap.
His mechanics are not difficult. He has a massive skill cap in his decision making.
I'm going to use 
as an example. RIven's skill cap lies in her hit. It may not be that big, but you can't just spam buttons and expect to do as well as you could. You have to chain autos in there too as well as a few other things.
Yasuo's kit is much less complicated. WHAT I AM TRYING TO GET THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL is that his skill cap lies in his decision making. If you dash in at the wrong time you will be punished. If you ult to every knock up, you will be punished if you do it wrong. If you dash to too many minions you will not have an escape and you will be punished.
I won't deny that you can beat most Yasuo players mainly because they picked up Yasuo during the shitstorm when he was actually broken.
Now, the problem doesn't lie with Yasuo. Hit kit is balanced. The problem lies with people who are masters at Yasuo and his buildpath.
See Riot won't nerf Yasuo anymore because the problem does not lie with him.
Zaghyr1 votes[{quoted}](name=SKT T1 Jigsaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KW3fnMGz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-01T15:24:55.015+0000)
His kit really isn't fine.
No champion should have double crit, 50% bonus armor pen for 15 seconds on ult, a wind wall blocking all projectiles for 4 seconds that can't be stopped, a 0.5 second cooldown on an ability at level 1 (E) and a shield that regenerates during combat. They nerf Swain, Anivia, and shortly a few assassins are taking some nerfs but this giant disaster that never should have gotten out of the concept desk is allowed to have the best of everything? The "nerf" with his bonus armor pen is a sham, it now is every critical strike which is all the time when he has -two- items so its not a nerf at all.
At least two of those things have to be removed, he'll still be strong but not so ridiculously able to destroy tanks and adcs and anything else in his way so easily. People used to make a big fuss about Kassadin and LeBlanc and Jax, but this guy makes them look like siege minions!
Yet you ignore the fact that his crits do 10% less damage (25% for q), his windwall is a high cooldown and stationary, his e requires a target and is very punishable if not used correctly. And his shield? Really? You think that it regenerating in combat is a problem? Dude, you do know there are other shields in the game right? Ya know, the ones with cooldowns that can be used more than once in a fight. Yasuo's shield is no different than having a cooldown on it. Learn to fucking play around his shield for fucks sake. And his ult nerf wasn't a sham. People were bitching about bruiser Yas, so they nerfed it, nobody was ever complaining about regular crit Yas when the bruiser build was dominating.
The JigSAW1 votesOh wow, he does 10% less damage on the crit. If you build Shiv and Cloak of Agility you crit every hit. Normal champs need four items to do that, he needs one and a third. There are shields, yes, but I know of NOBODY who has a shield regenerating WHILE UNDER ATTACK.
Oh, I play around it fine. I hate him but I destroy him -because- of how much I hate him that I found the top counters and items to beat every one of them.
Zaghyr1 votesNo shield huh? So the fact that every shield has a cooldown, and while under attack that cooldown still ticks down to 0 is drastically different from Yasuo's shield? While in combat his shield has an invisible set cooldown that only differs in duration depending on how much you move around. Functionally, I don't see how Yasuo's shield is any different from other shields.
Justin01 votesYou know what I love is the fact that you said stattik shiv. It's phantom dancer now. I don't even play yasuo often but I already know that this is another pointless thread complaining about yasuo's design. Like look at malzahar's design, or warwicks, they literally don't do anything but r. Hell, metaslaves who play Syndra abuse the fact that she dominates laning and damage output is more of an issue that salty players who complain about yasuo. I've seen Syndras land only one q but generate enough orbs to press r and 100 to 0 someone.
GULAG 4 U3 votesDouble crit is there as a steroid. Without it only tank Yasuo would exist and melee carries need steroids, they need to be able to deal more damage than ranged ones because they are in danger for dishing damage. Note I am not saying it's fine or balanced, I'm justifying it's existence.
50% bonus armor penetration is for tackling the tanks. Without it all Yasuo can do is to slap thhe backline if he can reach it.
Aatrox has a o.5 seconds cooldown his W too. Your point isn't valid.
TPA Jason1231 votesThe thing is that Yasuo has a really high skill ceiling which makes him have the space to have a kit that makes him even possible for people to start playing him. He even got nerfed so that he isn't ridiculously strong. Examples are like his passive and how much it shields and his recent ulti nerf where it only foes 50 percent armor pen for 15 seconds. AND most yasuos don't get armor pen so the unti isn't super op.
The JigSAW1 votesYasuo requires skill. Okay that immediately makes this comment not valid whatsoever as I know there's a kid named Best 10 Year Old NA who only uses him because that's the only champ he can get pentas with. A fifth-grader can penta with the guy.
No Yasuos buy armor pen? Must see different ones than I've encountered who go all out to destroy everybody.
Zaghyr1 votesHave you ever played Yasuo? Against anybody else that knows what they are doing? Yasuo DOES require skill, whether you want to believe it or not. I hate Lee Sin, I think his kit is overloaded and overpowered to oblivion, but I know he takes a lot of skill for some of the things he does. Same goes for any other skill-based champion. Just because you know how to beat Yasuo and hate his kit doesn't mean you can blindly dis the level of skill it takes to play him at a higher level than most.
RISE Shlack1232 votesThe skill ceiling argument is not a valid argument when it comes to balance, however. You will run into people who have the skill and take the time to master a champion. And when you do, there will be little you can do to stop them, instead relying on them to make a mistake.
Balancing a champion around how many mistakes the player makes isn't balance. You can only take the skill ceiling argument so far until it is meaningless. There will always be people who excel at said champions and will put on display how broken they are. Making skill cap the only gate on a champion's power is poor game design and is a poor argument.
Edit: I agree Yasuo, as well as Lee, require skill to play properly. But when you encounter a skilled player, these champions are downright unkillable.
Zaghyr2 votesI understand you completely, and I agree. However, my problem is how this guy is just calling Yasuo's kit unbalanced and bad design by only looking at and pointing out the things that he thinks are stupid, without looking at the rest of the cons and things about him that make him balanceable. He preaches how hard he destroys Yasuo, yet he still spews salt about him without looking at both sides of the coin on his kit and actually discussing what he thinks the problem is. In addition, he says Yasuo doesn't take skill........and that is flat-out wrong.
RISE Shlack1231 votesRight, the argument is presented poorly. But the argument I've always made is the one I've presented to you. I have had both success and utter failure facing Yasuo, and it's all depended on the skill of the Yasuo player. Sure, I'm relatively skilled at the champions I play, but they are all outright countered by Yasuo due to having projectiles in their kits. Hell, 2/3s of the champion roster is countered by Yasuo in some form or fashion. But every time I've won against a Yasuo player, it was because said player played Yasuo poorly. And I got no satisfaction from beating someone who is bad at the champion they are playing. Which just brings another angle to Yasuo being un-fun to play against. Either he curb stomps you or you curb stomp him. But it's almost never an even matchup, even in Gold, where I currently find myself rotting.
Zaghyr1 votesIts not an angle to Yasuo though. You won't have fun beating anyone that is bad at their champion, not just Yasuo.
RISE Shlack1231 votesFair point. But I only use Yasuo as an example because of how much more the matchup relies on Yasuo to play well (or poorly) than how well you play.
Thisgameisturds11 votesyeah, this is bullshit, but then again the whole champion is. very stupid design.
Dabrick011 votesNo.
BoilTheOil5 votesstfu god damn nobody cares about yasuo besides bronzies
EcchiOtakuTM2 votesWell I agree with that however his ulti's bonus is also an issue.
After the LW changes, LW is a lackluster(Well balanced but nothing you'd want to rush) item and thus since yasuo can turn any tank item into a LW it's ruining his mechanical skill and dumbing him down pisspoor easiness. And unlike crit, he doesn't have to build armor pene to benifit from 50% free armor pene just ulti.
It's giving him far too much hidden power because there's no real way to get around it, crit there's omen, Windwall you can still move and reset a teamfight due to it's CD, dashing is enemies only which can be used against him. But 50% armor pene? Tanks will die no questions asked, there's nothing to actually prevent it and it's far more reliable than GP's barrels(the barrels are another issue though :P).
However there's really no suggestion to be made to fix it, simply changing the bonus isn't the answer because it can't be something to help kill squishies but a way to take out tanks in a more counterplayable way than free 50% armor pene.
VasilisGreen2 votesDude, seriously? He's always had that armor pen, and with the LW changes last preseason, he became weaker.... Back then you had a 50% Bonus armor pen and after that you gained 39% Total armor pen from LW and masteries. Now you are stuck with just the 50% bonus armor pen or 72,5% if you also get a LW item, and it's all BONUS armor pen.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesI know he always had the armor pene which turned to only bonus after the LW changes. LW, while it did become healthier, became less wanted and thus enforced his tankier build since he can turn any item into a much better LW. Not to mention since he's going tankier it makes missing a windwall or getting impatient and doing misplays much less consequential.
Old LW was wanted cause it even helped kill squishies better, now ignore LW, grab a tankier item you'll be able to kill any tank while still being able to take out squishies.
VasilisGreen2 votesit didn't turn to bonus, it's always been bonus.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesI misworded it, I meant with LW it was total and after the LW change it's bonus only x.x
Ty for pointing it out.
VasilisGreen1 votesback then it was so nice tho. I am so salty about that LW change... That change is the reason AD assassins were so snowbally early to midgame and had a bad late game and it felt like they had no counterplay. Who cares about Yasuo, just bring back lw
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesI'm actually salty because it did hurt jayce/urgot/varus' poke builds but I do agree with the change. LW was just bought to go against everyone squishy or tank and after the changes did go to where it should be health-wise not to mention more thought on buying it.
But I don't agree, after the change AD assassins weren't good at all until they finally planned to focus ad assassins on flat pene. But the problem was flat pene was snowbally(thus the new lethality). So LW-wise I'm not to interested in it returning since AD assassins, flat pene are where they should be and LW is tank buster focus allowed it to have additional effects and more planning on when to actually buy it.
VasilisGreen1 votesLook, what the old LW+Flat pen combo did was to make your damage output smoother and relevant throughout the game. Early game you had that small boost to your damage with the little flat pen you go from brutalizer, then you got the LW to be relevant in mid-late game and after completing ghostblade you finalized your damage spike against squishy targets late in the game. That made your damage output reliable throughout the game but also not overwhelming. If i snowball now as Zed or talon, there is literaly NOTHING you can do to survive. If i snowballed back then as zed, i still needed to hit my spells to be successful. I had a lot of damage, but that damage only came out if i hit my shit. Now that's no longer a requirement. And also, in the late game, when people scale up with their base stats, that flat pen is not as effective as the old lw+flat pen, instead we need to rely on Black cleaver for the % effect, although we need to stack it. Cleaver is not an assassin item and it shouldn't be so important to get on assassins. It is a hinderance. It slows assassins down, A LOT.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesYea but lethality fixed it. The bad part about the LW changes was they didn't do anything about armor pene which was causing major snowball->fall off issues, now it's far more consistent and less snowbally giving a chance to fight them while letting them stay relevant throughout a game. Lethality is 100% where armor pene should have been. Also since it's not based on the person's own level but the enemy if they gain an advantage it won't push it to ridiculous levels but if they're behind they can catch up. Overall lethality feels great to face and use.
VasilisGreen1 votesearly, a full lethality rune page coupled with masteries, it gives you 33 lethality at lvl1, that's about 14 flat pen. It's still more than what people use now, where they have 11,52 from runes and 3 from masteries, but personaly, i am used to 19,2 from runes, for a total of 22,5 flat pen at lvl1. Well, running a 0AD rune page on zed for so long, i am used to farming with no AD, but the problem is that, late game, when your target is lvl18, if you build all the lethality items, that i will, you will have 83 flat armor pen against that target and if they are squishy, that's more than all the armor they will have from lvling up and runes... that's bad. At that point, you will have no hope of survival, tank builds will be even more important and assassn's gameplay will become even worse, especialy for zed who is the one nerfed the most from the update. And no, he is not stronger. Assassin items got nerfed in AD, specificaly the duskblade, Damage amp masteries have been changed, i will not be able to combine double edged sword and bounty hunter anymore, and his AD now depends on his enemies AD stat, a detail that can be heavily abused by everyone on the enemy team, and fun fact, i now gain 67 AD from my W at lvl18 at full build. To get the same number from the enemy, they need to have 413,3333 AD... Good luck killing a Kha'zix/rengo that have that much AD or a jinx/cait/twitch with that AD value... Not to talk about some extremely hard hitting ADCs like Draven or Jhin. With those items, jhin will probs have 800 AD, not just 413 but a Draven with 413 AD will hit like a nuke...
So, we have lower AD overall from itemization, we can only have one 75 AD item because the lethality items will be essential if you want to be relevant late game, Zed's AD will also be less because it depends on his enemies' OFFENSIVE stats and particularly AD, and also, you will still need to get a black cleaver because as a caster you need the cdr, something that all assassin items lack, and all AD assassins are casters, not AA fighters.
No thanks, can we now go back to season 5? PLEASE?
