Ekko's still broken, right?

Over Innsmouth·May 8, 2016·76 votes·5,939 views

Specifically Tankko.

Because of his cc and the spam-ability of said cc, he can happily go Tankko and be a tremendous asset to his team.

Because of his innate damage steroids on Passive and W, he can happily build fully tank and still do relevant damage.

Because of his assassin-based mobility and safety, trying to catch the fucker when your combined team finally has enough damage to kill him is frustrating and hilariously hard to do without a specific comp dedicated to holding someone down forever.

Because that's how long it takes to kill him. Forever.

In my mind, there's three realistic ways to approach him and try to fix this Tankko issue.

Gut his bases to the point that if he doesnt build AP, his damage is comparable to a single minion.
Straight up remove, or rework, some of his cc.
Tie his cc to his AP ratios.

94 Comments

HayRossMay 8, 201636 votes

Serious question:

Who thought it was a good idea to give an AOE stun that lasts longer than a Morgana snare TO A FUCKING ASSASSIN and expected it to work out well?

ll League God llMay 8, 201625 votes

{quoted}

Serious question:

Who thought it was a good idea to give an AOE stun that lasts longer than a Morgana snare TO A FUCKING ASSASSIN and expected it to work out well?

because it takes like 3 seconds after you cast to even activate... and even then ekko has to dive into it.. its alot harder to land vs people who arent morons that stand still

HayRossMay 8, 201615 votes

Having it be hard to land doesn't make it a whole lot better, it's still a terrible idea to give an assassin that much CC

ll League God llMay 8, 20168 votes

{quoted}

Having it be hard to land doesn't make it a whole lot better, it's still a terrible idea to give an assassin that much CC

his Q is dodgable... even on the pullback... his stun is definitly dodgable to anyone who moves even a little... his E is the only thing that cant be dodged... and even then, ekko needs to land a minimum of 3 ABILITY hits to even do decent damage. I think you are making him out to be a much stronger pick than he is... yes hes good, but hes not a hyper carry like a jax or a vayne

WinBoatMay 8, 20163 votes

Finally, you said the facts bro. Everyone just hating on Ekko cause he's being played. Iceborn is the fucking problem and needs deleted.

If I were to change anything about Ekko, it would to be remove his shield really, and maybe even the slow on his W which is kinda pointless and not really that good.

People bitch so much about his Q slows when they don't slow you for like 90% like someone named Nasus with an easy point and click which can be spammed on you thanks to iceborn and spirit visage which means you can't get away from him no matter who you are, but meanwhile Udyr, Lee Sin, Rammus can get away and still outrun Ekko when he slows them with Q.

Kenioshi2 sequelMay 8, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Best EV3R NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KR2XgKgQ,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-08T15:27:41.619+0000)

Finally, you said the facts bro. Everyone just hating on Ekko cause he's being played. Iceborn is the fucking problem and needs deleted.

If I were to change anything about Ekko, it would to be remove his shield really, and maybe even the slow on his W which is kinda pointless and not really that good.

People bitch so much about his Q slows when they don't slow you for like 90% like someone named Nasus with an easy point and click which can be spammed on you thanks to iceborn and spirit visage which means you can't get away from him no matter who you are, but meanwhile Udyr, Lee Sin, Rammus can get away and still outrun Ekko when he slows them with Q.

people just don't realize that his Q is a skill shot that can be dodged its not like it has the range of a Nidalee spear jeez... like Ekko says, "Don't Blink", and you should be fine.

Michael702May 8, 20166 votes

Try chasing an Ekko. Good luck dodging his Q. You're not getting away and you're not catching him.

Fina1BossMay 9, 20162 votes

Same with quite alot of champions. What's your point?

GulmaMay 9, 20162 votes

you're not killing him. He builds tanky. How many other champions do that? Ahri? Leblanc? Zed?

CrownsyMay 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

you're not killing him. He builds tanky. How many other champions do that? Ahri? Leblanc? Zed?

those are mid laners. How many top laners build tank? a shitload.

Tank ekko in the mid lane doesnt work, because zed? ahri? and leblanc? will murder him with poke if he goes tank first item not a mana/ ap item. Top, yes, it's a problem, but the new iceborn and other tank items have made ALOT of shit toxic top lane.

GulmaMay 10, 20162 votes

okay, so which tops have so much mobility? darius? wukong? vlad?ryze?chogath?

doombotMECHAMay 9, 20161 votes

which is why he's built tank; he can just swagwalk into the middle of your team to get it off, rather than mindgaming the shit out of you.

ll League God llMay 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

which is why he's built tank; he can just swagwalk into the middle of your team to get it off, rather than mindgaming the shit out of you.

I dont get why people on the forums over exagurate the capabilities of some champs. He doesnt "swagwalk" into fights. If you have a solid front line tank, and a smart ADC, you can cripple and ekkos combo leaving him basically useless for the next minute... a trist / cait can poke ekko from way outside his capable range, and with proper play can even self peel him.

Champion balance is based around higher elo ranked games not the typical low elo / blind pick

Too many people come in here playing blind pick screaming something is op when in reality there is literally a counter to every single champion in league, its just a matter of you adapting your playstyle and champ choices to find that weakness.

adcs with high range + heal reduction items make ekko useless, specifically tristana. From an ADC perspective only, she hard counters ekko

Jax also hard counters ekko, even tank ekko gets melted by jax

doombotMECHAMay 9, 20164 votes

well, the thing is, if he was an assassin build ekko and you had solid tank/solid adc, that ekko'd be DEAD. my point isn't that tankko is OP, it's that it accesses ekko's CC way more safely than ap ek, and so tank is the dominant build where it CLEARLY shouldn't be (ie not the manufacturer's intended use).

AttackOfTheBeardMay 9, 20162 votes

so you're calling pro players morons? because ekko gets picked a shit ton in LCS

FastAsHeckMay 8, 20162 votes

it's quite fair when he's an assassin, sadly no one except me plays him like that ^_^

ahferroin7May 9, 20161 votes

I actually know a couple of other people who do. A good assassin Ekko is almost as hard to kill as a full tank Ekko, but for slightly different reasons (that 150% AP scaling on his shield from his W is insane...).

CrownsyMay 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Serious question:

Who thought it was a good idea to give an AOE stun that lasts longer than a Morgana snare TO A FUCKING ASSASSIN and expected it to work out well?

it takes like 2.5 seconds to set up, and while you only see the AOE targeting effect at the last .5 seconds, the ekko clone splitting off and hitting the "bomb" into the air is tough to miss, if your actually looking for it.

you could you know, move out of the AOE to avoid the stun. sure he still gets the shield to fight you with, but at least he won't get the stun.

Tank MasochistMay 10, 20161 votes

Ekko was intended to be played and built as an assasin. He was made with the playstyle of predicting enemy movements hence the 3 second cast time. The fact that he was discovered to be a viable tank is very regretteble and should have been considered in his design process but alittle late for that now.

InivtesPreezeMay 8, 201624 votes

Ekko is 100% pick/ban at MSI and is an absolute terror.

How he hasn't been gutted is beyond me.

It's a trash champ and needs to be deleted.

WinBoatMay 8, 20164 votes

Meanwhile Poppy has a higher win rate at MSI. Meanwhile Poppy is more useful late game at MSI and reliable, and more tanky.

Meanwhile Maoki if in the game and not banned like he is 98% of the time destroys and again more useful late game than Ekko.

Lets just delete Azir, Zed, Ekko, Poppy, Maoki,. Graves, Nidalee, Kindred, Alistar.

Aroha MaiMay 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Best EV3R NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KR2XgKgQ,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-05-08T13:30:10.305+0000)

Meanwhile Poppy has a higher win rate at MSI. Meanwhile Poppy is more useful late game at MSI and reliable, and more tanky.

Meanwhile Maoki if in the game and not banned like he is 98% of the time destroys and again more useful late game than Ekko.

Lets just delete Azir, Zed, Ekko, Poppy, Maoki,. Graves, Nidalee, Kindred, Alistar.

MSI is not even being played on the latest patch and poppy just had some big nerfs to her.

Crowe StalkerMay 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kek is a Lie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KR2XgKgQ,comment-id=000300000003,timestamp=2016-05-10T08:30:49.910+0000)

MSI is not even being played on the latest patch and poppy just had some big nerfs to her.

All Professional Play is literally the last patch we went through. Why do you think 6.9 had so many changes? They don't plan on making the Pros deal with the likes of Malzahar and Veigar in their current state until they get the data that says 'this shit is absolutely broken' and proceed to gut them.

Of course, the Pros will just change their 3 picks per roll pools accordingly.

Power CosmicMay 8, 20164 votes

MSI was on 6.8 I am pretty sure. Also in pro games there is a lot of rotating and limited normal laning. Ekko still has a great set of spells, but is weak when forced to trade while laning.

Faceroll TacticsMay 8, 20161 votes

Every champion designed by Gypsylord has an overloaded and hard to balance kit and needs to be deleted.

Gnar, Ekko, Vi, etc.

10TicklerMay 9, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Faceroll Tactics,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KR2XgKgQ,comment-id=00030003,timestamp=2016-05-08T20:25:24.678+0000)

Every champion designed by X has an overloaded and hard to balance kit and needs to be deleted.

You realize that people pretty much say that about ALL of the champion design team? Normally it's CertainlyT who gets the shit for it, it's rare to see Gypsy called out, but it happens

X8ViEhkPS0May 8, 20164 votes

The problem lies in the fact that Ekko's kit synergizes way too well with the tank play style. Having multiple forms of ranged CC, ways to get in and out, and a passive that rewards autos.

Put that on a new champ who is meant to be a tank and they will always be good. And since Ekko has assassin ratios, the small amount of AP that he does pick up goes a long way.

At some point Riot is going to throw in the towel and just make him a tank.

spombjopMay 8, 20163 votes

Riot removed tankiness from shroud of akali and they also removed R or E activaction of her Q... Why they can't also remove heal from Ekko ult, i only find that thing Op about him. Heal on ult makes no sense for an assassin like that. Ok Akali is diferent, she needs heals to survive because she has no escapes, she can only jump on champs and enemy minions.

Supreme Senpai69May 8, 20165 votes

The re-positioning of Ekko's ult is powerful as hell. It lets you get in, assassinate a target, and get out.

But... it also deals damage. So it can also be used to get in, get out, then just nuke everybody if they try to follow you.

But... it also heals. So if they try to follow you and you nuke them and you were low HP, you're now high HP and can finish the rest off.

Thematically the re-positioning and healing are awesome. It really feels like you're going back in time. I've no idea why the damage is there.

AtheosisXMay 8, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KR2XgKgQ,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-05-08T15:15:34.748+0000)

The re-positioning of Ekko's ult is powerful as hell. It lets you get in, assassinate a target, and get out.

But... it also deals damage. So it can also be used to get in, get out, then just nuke everybody if they try to follow you.

But... it also heals. So if they try to follow you and you nuke them and you were low HP, you're now high HP and can finish the rest off.

Thematically the re-positioning and healing are awesome. It really feels like you're going back in time. I've no idea why the damage is there.

Yeah, remove the damage on his ult and he's balanced.

doombotMECHAMay 9, 20162 votes

the damage is there so that the optimal use case isn't just "get an extra life" the idea is to make smart plays in order to get out that miracle ult.

ahferroin7May 9, 20162 votes

The heal on his ult actually makes sense. If they were going to remove something, I'd vote for the shield on his W. If an assassin can't kill someone before they die when they've just stunned their target for that long, then they have other issues.

MLDzXnRRRMay 8, 20163 votes

Still healthier than Graves who gets tanky while building full dmg...

GinkoGMay 8, 20163 votes

At this point I would just be happy if his passive couldn't be applied to champions for a longer period of time if they've been hi by it already.

RozairMay 8, 20163 votes

when ekko was released he was completely op due to his high ap scaling and high base damage but ekko is a high risk high reward champion... but he isnt. AP ekko was designed to be another assasin but due to his ratios players discovered he did tons of damage as a tank as well. So riot nerfed him and nerfed him and nerfed him again because he was broken. Even after all the nerfs he is still broken due to his utility so they keep him nerfed to stay in check. its not the ratios its the kit itself. even if you never land your w you dont really need it. i think they need to gut his base damage and spike his ap ratios like crazy so that it forces your to play ap ekko so that he is squishy as teemo

The 99th ProblemMay 9, 20163 votes

Tank ekko is honestly 100% early - mid game. His damage is literal poop after the mid game. He falls off damage wise so much in the late game (as most tanks do (Garen/Darius anyone?)). I currently have 105k mastery points on ekko, (been playing him before this ekko craze began) and I can confirm that ap ekko has always been better than tank ekko.

But yes, TANK EKKO, (lest there be any ambiguity) and only TANK EKKO, may need some retweaking. Do not destroy the champ for those who, much like me, play full ap ekko and enjoy it.

Roit GumsMay 8, 20162 votes

Yep he was so broken in SKT vs RNG last match

spombjopMay 8, 20162 votes

pick Jax to counter him

SlaktarTaskenMay 8, 20166 votes

{quoted}

pick to counter him

Just lol.. First of all, Jax is horrible right now. Second of all, everything about Ekko screams Jax counter. Ekko would have to be completely braindead to not wreck Jax considering he has: Multiple reliable slows, situational hard cc that will definately hit any Jax trying to engage and disable him for a whopping 2.25 seconds, reliable disengages, blink/untargetability, a massive heal, a massive shield, reliable re-engaging mechanics, ranged harass, does not need to ramp up, 3hit burst, 3 hit execute mechanics and we're still... not... done...

The question should rather be, why would you ever pick Jax into Ekko unless you are trolling?

Let's just face it, now that people have figured Ekko out he will forever be cancer till Riot realises his kit.. just.. has.. too ducking mutch.
Anytime he does viable damage he will be broken, there is no way around this. He needs to have shit removed from his kit, less cc, less outplay potential, maybe then we can actually see him be somewhat rebalanced.

TonyTonyMordecaiMay 8, 20161 votes

So basically nerf him to Evelynn status?

SlaktarTaskenMay 8, 20169 votes

{quoted}

So basically nerf him to Evelynn status?

Honestly, I don't really care anymore, this patch is completely bonkers regardless. But yeah, he needs to have stuff removed from his kit, without a doubt.

TonyTonyMordecaiMay 8, 20162 votes

I mean, I want tank Ekko gone as much as everyone else because I want to play AP Ekko again, but that's all I'm seeing in these posts.

Dark ravens 77May 8, 20162 votes

I just hope they can gut tank ekko without gutting ap ekko

Naag OneMay 9, 20162 votes

an assassin with 2 60% slows

gapcloser
move speed steroids
heavy shield and long ass stun
panic button escape and heal for ult
executes

But wait, you can still kill him right?
item 3068 item 3742 item 3025 item 3065 item 3157 item 3047

ofc you can. once every 20 minutes :D

ZT XperimentorMay 13, 20161 votes

Don't forget the matches he gets a guardian angel [zombie-nunu-bummed]

A Miss FortuneMay 9, 20162 votes

Riot's issue is that they keep nerfing Ekko's abilities rather than just remove entire parts of his extremely overloaded kit. Ekko's always going to be a balance issue if his kit remains as overloaded as it is right now.

tooomineMay 9, 20162 votes

So... Tank ekko's damage is kind of irrelevant. more so since the Frozen Fist nerfs. I'd say he's not as broken as AP ekko is now.

LuminieMay 9, 20162 votes

I think he was annoying when he was released (standard Ap build) but this Tank thing is getting out of hand. His slow is just too high and the damage is too high when he builds tank, cant do anything about it it feels, he seriously never dies. I hate playing against him in top lane, especially as melee fighters. I hope tank ekko gets gutted because this is ridiculous. Always ban him in ranked, he is 4th most banned in all ranks, so I hope he will get nerfed alot (Tank not ap ekko)

ahferroin7May 9, 20162 votes

Yes, he is broken. He's even viable as a support against the right lane (and is utterly broken supporting Kalista, you use your w, she ults you in, and if the engage fails, you just ult yourself out).

IceKingChernobogMay 10, 20162 votes

The problem is his unnecessary utility tacked onto his kit. His passive slows, His Q Slows, His W Slows, Stuns, has low clarity, gives him unneeded engage power and rewards him if he doesn't catch anyone in it, His E is a Dash/Targeted blink. His R gives him health back while giving him a AoE veigar ult. Lets be honest here, even if they nerfed ekko to the ground, as long as he still has the utility tacked on to him, he's still gonna be a problem. To meaningfully nerf him they're gonna have to strip away parts of his kit and they're not gonna do it, look at kalista. She gets nerfed repeatedly, yet she's still cancerous due to her kit.