Crit needs to be harder to build

UnboundHades·Sep 25, 2017·29 votes·1,143 views

Seeing how it used to be you get lucky so you get a nice chunck of damage now its just a +150% damage increase on almost every auto attack instead of it being a luck based system

26 Comments

Teridax68Sep 25, 20178 votes

Unpopular opinion: I would actually support marksmen able to consistently reach 100% crit chance, so long as it entailed a reduction to their AD.

As mentioned in the OP, the application of crit is dependent on RNG. Effectively, the less crit you have, the more RNG-based it becomes, as marksmen would then crit less consistently, which would make any individual crit luckier by comparison. This is, for example, the core frustration with 1% crit builds or Tryndamere, where you just get randomly chunked for a ton of health, despite the enemy not having much crit to begin with. Short of reworking crit entirely (which I personally support) or removing it, the only way to make it less RNG-based would be to make it as reliable as possible, which in this case would mean increasing crit chance.

Obviously, the issue with just buffing crit chance is that it would be a net buff to marksmen, who are arguably too strong right now already. However, another major inconsistency with marksmen is that their items also tend to have the highest attack damage out there: whereas items like Duskblade or Youmuu's, which are designed for assassins, and therefore bursty champions, have at most 55 AD, items like Infinity Edge, Essence Reaver and the Bloodthirster each have 70-80 AD. This is in part why marksmen feel too bursty at times, because any individual attack carries a ton of AD, itself usually multiplied by crit. To remedy this, I think it might help to nerf the AD on those items while buffing crit, so that the two at least cancel each other out. Personally, though, I would advocate going one step further, and making it so that marksman itemization gave less AD than other AD items, and instead gave more attack speed, so that marksmen would have strong DPS without requiring autoattacks that are individually strong themselves.

KloqdqSep 25, 20173 votes

Completely agree to this. One issue I have with Crit is no one feels good about it. If you get a crit it's so strong that anyone without armor is gotted in 2 hits and if you ever miss a crit at 80% than you feel like shit and may even get gotted yourself because you didn't get a Crit.

Really I am on the side of just reworking Crit as a ramping stat to help push their DPS and remove that upfront damage that they do but I doubt that will happen.

MuzétSep 25, 20171 votes

Just dropping my topic from a few weeks ago: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/k3UngWAk-marksman-update

EDIT - New topic https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/fcaeynqG-focused-update-marksmen-itemization-and-crit-work

Asayake 5150glowSep 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Unpopular opinion: I would actually support marksmen able to consistently reach 100% crit chance, so long as it entailed a reduction to their AD.

As mentioned in the OP, the application of crit is dependent on RNG. Effectively, the less crit you have, the more RNG-based it becomes, as marksmen would then crit less consistently, which would make any individual crit luckier by comparison. This is, for example, the core frustration with 1% crit builds or Tryndamere, where you just get randomly chunked for a ton of health, despite the enemy not having much crit to begin with. Short of reworking crit entirely (which I personally support) or removing it, the only way to make it less RNG-based would be to make it as reliable as possible, which in this case would mean increasing crit chance.

Obviously, the issue with just buffing crit chance is that it would be a net buff to marksmen, who are arguably too strong right now already. However, another major inconsistency with marksmen is that their items also tend to have the highest attack damage out there: whereas items like Duskblade or Youmuu's, which are designed for assassins, and therefore bursty champions, have at most 55 AD, items like Infinity Edge, Essence Reaver and the Bloodthirster each have 70-80 AD. This is in part why marksmen feel too bursty at times, because any individual attack carries a ton of AD, itself usually multiplied by crit. To remedy this, I think it might help to nerf the AD on those items while buffing crit, so that the two at least cancel each other out. Personally, though, I would advocate going one step further, and making it so that marksman itemization gave less AD than other AD items, and instead gave more attack speed, so that marksmen would have strong DPS without requiring autoattacks that are individually strong themselves.

How is that unpopular.

Everyone supports an alternative to the RNG that is crit.

Why do you think we want Trynd reworked.

Teridax68Sep 27, 20171 votes

Because I'm not actually suggesting a rework to crit here, and am instead proposing buffs to crit and nerfs to AD on marksman items, neither of which are especially well-received usually. I personally do support a rework to crit, but in the meantime I think bringing it up to 100% consistently would help with its RNG component.

Asayake 5150glowSep 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because I'm not actually suggesting a rework to crit here, and am instead proposing buffs to crit and nerfs to AD on marksman items, neither of which are especially well-received usually. I personally do support a rework to crit, but in the meantime I think bringing it up to 100% consistently would help with its RNG component.

Those are drastic changes which can most definitely be called a rework, because it takes away one of the primary parts of crit lategame - the RNG factor. If it was only number changes and nothing else, then it wouldn't qualify, but even though it changes numbers primarily, it also removes lategame RNG.

That being said, people still aren't gonna like midgame RNG.

Teridax68Sep 27, 20171 votes

That's not what taking the RNG factor away means. Crit would still have the same gameplay, you'd just find an extra 20% crit on your normal builds in exchange for number nerfs elsewhere. As you yourself mentioned, crit would still have RNG before getting to full build, so this really isn't anywhere near as drastic as an actual mechanical rework.

Asayake 5150glowSep 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's not what taking the RNG factor away means. Crit would still have the same gameplay, you'd just find an extra 20% crit on your normal builds in exchange for number nerfs elsewhere. As you yourself mentioned, crit would still have RNG before getting to full build, so this really isn't anywhere near as drastic as an actual mechanical rework.

'Consistently reach 100% crit' implies that they'll get to 100% crit most of the time... and that's literally your first sentence.

Teridax68Sep 27, 20171 votes

It is, but that's not removing RNG from crit. Most late-game crit builds currently reach 80% crit, making the "RNG factor" the lowest it's ever been in League for crit, so it's not really like it's a major part of late-game gameplay anyways. None of this even approaches rework territory.

Ithil SnekSep 25, 20177 votes

Crit needs to be removed and/or changed by a non RNG gameplay mechanic.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 25, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Seeing how it used to be you get lucky so you get a nice chunck of damage now its just a +150% damage increase on almost every auto attack instead of it being a luck based system

Okay. A couple things:

First, no. It's not "almost every AA". It's around 70% of them. 30% is still a lot of non-crits.

Second, you're not really saying how this is a bad thing. You're stating a "fact" (in quotation marks because it's just not true), not any real argument.

only zhuleSep 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Okay. A couple things:

First, no. It's not "almost every AA". It's around 70% of them. 30% is still a lot of non-crits.

Second, you're not really saying how this is a bad thing. You're stating a "fact" (in quotation marks because it's just not true), not any real argument.

The issue with your counter argument is that you are basically saying that any character who builds crit, is going to do 170%, or more, damage barring horrible horrible RNG.

So the ADC who has 200 AD, will statistically hit for 400 damage seven out of ten times. if you break that down that means that each shot does roughly 340 damage. This of course does not account for armor on the target, nor does this account for champions who bought item 3031

DuskDaUmbreonSep 25, 20173 votes

That doesn't matter at all. What matters is that OP had no argument.

If I say, for example, "Veigar can hit 1k AP", that's just a fact. We can accurately prove that he can reach 1k AP.

If I then say "Veigar needs to have a harder time getting AP", that's an opinion. However, it lacks any argument.

Even if I say "Veigar can hit 1k AP, he needs to have a harder time getting AP", that's not an argument, it's a fact and an opinion. OP lacked any argument. Any reasoning. It doesn't say why he needs less AP, it just says he does. Same for crit with OP's post. He doesn't say why crit needs to be harder to build. Just that it does.

UnboundHadesSep 25, 20171 votes

Well i was on a phone at 6 am i had to go to work so i couldnt get most of my reasons out i dont really care about the balance of it at the moment itd just crit isnt being what crit should be its now a core part of adcs strength while it should be something extra tagged onto only a few items also veiger and crit arent even closely related his gimick is hes suppose to scale while the gimick crit dhould have isnt exidtant anymore and its just an auto attack steroid (still on phone so deal with shit block of text

only zhuleSep 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That doesn't matter at all. What matters is that OP had no argument.

If I say, for example, "Veigar can hit 1k AP", that's just a fact. We can accurately prove that he can reach 1k AP.

If I then say "Veigar needs to have a harder time getting AP", that's an opinion. However, it lacks any argument.

Even if I say "Veigar can hit 1k AP, he needs to have a harder time getting AP", that's not an argument, it's a fact and an opinion. OP lacked any argument. Any reasoning. It doesn't say why he needs less AP, it just says he does. Same for crit with OP's post. He doesn't say why crit needs to be harder to build. Just that it does.

The level of nitpicking on word choice you are doing here, is insane. Yes the OP's comment was an opinion. Yes the person i first responded to was giving a rough percentage. These facts don't change the underlying issues. A character who is balanced around the idea that they will do 2 times damage on the vast majority of their attacks, assuming they aren't stomped into the ground the whole game, is an issue. If you are playing the character and don't do 200% damage on multiple attacks, you feel shitty and cheated because RNG screwed you over repeatedly. If you are playing against that character, you have to basically go into any fight assuming they are going to land all their critical strikes. Thus a character with 200 AD would need to be looked at as if they had 400 AD. This of course doesn't even begin to tackle the other issues that come along with certain items item 3031 , item 3087 , etc... Nor does it touch on such "fun" things as Tryndamere with 1% crit chance who just randomly chunks 40-70% of a targets life because they got lucky.

One of the biggest issues is not crit itself, the game use to have ways where you could get insanely high critical chance BUT you had to trade attack speed and damage to achieve it. I don't personally mind if someone is rocking 100% crit, but i do mind when they can rock 70% and still have 150+ bonus AD & 100%+ bonus Attack speed. As the OP says in his response, crit has stopped being a gimmick you have to work towards and has become just a core part the ADC kit, basically it's just a attack steroid.

AirKingNeoSep 25, 20171 votes

It's not a counter argument. OP never gave an argument.

50ShadesOfÀDCSep 25, 20173 votes

Stop QQ about crit and git gud.

Darkdemon653Sep 25, 20172 votes

It doesn't need to be harder to get. It just needs to be more expensive. Crit is supposed to be a very strong stat once a bunch of AD has been obtained. The problem is it is too strong too early.

DtimeDSep 25, 20172 votes

It takes 4 out of your 6 item slots to get full crit, how is that a problem.

KyunseiSep 25, 20171 votes

Crit needs something, doesn't care what but it needs something. Upvoted.

bleufromageSep 25, 20171 votes

I've been using this point as well. I don't understand why crit is so heavily attached to attackspeed. They've made in exclusively an adc thing and made it necessary/oversaturated. Crit should be thematic and a meaningful choice.

Elkington VISep 25, 20171 votes

It's already pretty hard to build imo. Due to the safety and protection adcs get on SR, it gives the illusion that crit is easier to build than it actually is. Vayne and Yasuo are pretty much the only carries that can rush a Zeal without getting put behind, which is only due to how their kits work.

Anyone else needs either a good amount of AD built first or a massive AS steroid to justify rushing IE. Conversely, the components of IE are the worst things to sit on when you're behind.

I would argue the issue lies more with supports and their itemization rather than carries and crit.

Tails9016Sep 26, 20171 votes

I had a weird idea: Remove crit from every item other than item 3031 , but boost the effects on the "old" crit items, examples: item 3508 Make it restore 6% max mana instead(Obviously will need tweaks), item 3087 the damage from the lighting can have some number changes, the crit enhanced version deals significantly more damage since you only have 20% crit item 3085 Make the bolts deal more on-hit damage since they can also crit, but you only have a 20% to, assuming you grab an item 3031 (Also the damage/ attack speed on these items could be increased)

Of course that leaves item 1051 and item 1018 which would do nothing. Possibly give move speed or something since it only builds into item 3086 which gives move speed and give damage or a small buff to crit damage since it's now an item 3031 only item (Or just flat out give it damage)

pixelvoxelSep 26, 20172 votes

That's... seriously toxic to play around. It's a 1 in 5 chance that one of these autos will straight heck you up but only after you buy a massive gambling stick. It might even make crit as a concept just outright trolling and Runaan's seems to be the only good thing left out of here.