7.19 is feeling like the most imbalanced league has been since S4

BigPapaJSwaggins·Sep 27, 2017·31 votes·2,302 views

Does anyone agree? Shield meta, pick one of 25 champs to do well? I feel like riot has really dropped the ball here. They started off killing adc's off, then over compensated. Tanks were a little behind bruisers and duelists were overpowered, now tanks are overpowered. The whole game is based around pick x initiator and have x hyper carry. It feels like it goes from one extreme to the next, and don't get me started on shield meta. This shield meta is the most cancerous, toxic, unacceptable meta I've ever played in league history. It's just downright unsatisfying to play against a shield bot hyper carry combo.

61 Comments

nGioSep 28, 20179 votes

{quoted}

now tanks are overpowered

They are?

Volibear DrMundo Nautilus Poppy Ornn Malphite Galio nope.

Sejuani Chogath Maokai are strong. They aren't strong because 'the tank class op' or 'meta'. They are strong because they were recently reworked into fucking powerhouses, and work well with items that are underwhelming for most tanks. The tank class is still a majority shit, and nerfing these 3 wouldn't make Voli the next big thing, like the ADC carousel.

PhelasSep 28, 20175 votes

I like how accurate your comment is.

They offer everything a team wants, engage, peel, lockdown and even have some damage steroids. They are perfect, the same Poppy was back when she was reworked and then nerfed into being unplayable, in pro play at least.

BigPapaJSwagginsSep 28, 20172 votes

Also reflects back to the pick one of 25 champs. I shouldn't say all tanks are op I should say the god tier tanks make tanks feel op. The fact that there is a rotation of only 1/7th of the champion pool that is considered non-troll pick is ridiculous.

It Hertz When IPSep 28, 20171 votes

Man. nobody remembers Zac anymore.

...thank God.

Succubús GFSep 29, 20171 votes

HOLY SHIT I forgot zac existed. But I am not mad. Quick lets act like he was never brought up so rito gods don't buff him again

PoskeSep 28, 20171 votes

but dont worry they ll nerf his bite for whatever reason

He had to go in melee hit you 3 times just so he could bite you

Clearly it was broken...

TusutakiSep 28, 20172 votes

Im sorry but Galio is overpowered as shit. He legit does everything you listed but better. Galio is the Fiora of tanks before she was nerfed. He can play in all 4 roles effectively seemingly without weakness. As far as why his winrate is downright terrible I will never know.

nGioSep 29, 20171 votes

45.48% win rate right now.

7.18, below 50% in ALL 4 ROLES, with Galio support being a whopping 37.5%. 47% win rate top lane in Diamond-Challenger.

chipndip1Sep 29, 20171 votes

Galio is fine

Handin Out NapsSep 28, 20175 votes

Everyone on the boards is convinced its an "adc" meta for some reason lol. Nerf adc's as much as you want, but until you do something about enchanters and tanks the next best adc will just take their place.

BigPapaJSwagginsSep 28, 20172 votes

Who down-voted this? Tanks are kinda fine, just a bit over-tuned if you ask me. However the enchanting supports are insanely efficient and strong in itemization right now. We would need some crazy changes to tank support itemization in order to be in the same ballpark as enchanters. It baffles me that riot aren't aware that they are going to be having one of the most boring to watch meta's entering worlds.

It Hertz When IPSep 28, 20172 votes

Because hypercarries are a significant part of the problem. Ardent's over-tuned, yeah, but if I put it on a Corki, Lucian, Xayah, or Jhin, it's going to be far less impactful than if I dropped it on Twitch or KogMaw .

Handin Out NapsSep 28, 20171 votes

Any crit based adc with ardent is going to run through a team as long as the enemy team doesnt have a better adc. And Xayah is one of the strongest adcs right now lol. Enchanters need to be nerfed or this bullshit is just going to continue.

It Hertz When IPSep 28, 20171 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Xayah/ADC

Ignoring the Highest Winrate Build (70 sample size, wat), Xayah typically builds a grand total of ONE AS item (not counting the mandatory ADC boot choice). I suspect if there was another AD/Crit option that she'd be building that instead of RFC. Xayah doesn't build the kind of AS that can really, REALLY abuse Ardent's On-Hit power, because she's closer to an AD caster than an AA-reliant champ.

As for the claim that she's one of the strongest ADCs right now... stats don't match that claim. She's rocking a 49.89% winrate, which suggests pretty average strength; on stat breakdown it looks like her biggest strength is that she doesn't die as often as her counterparts, which makes sense: assuming she's retreating from being attacked, a timely E usually roots her attacker while she runs away. Her backup strength is her strong CS, placing 3rd in her class. Her average kills per game are really low for her class (14th out of 18).

To focus more specifically on your statement... crit has nothing to do with the ability to abuse Ardent, AS does. The two DO go hand in hand, since the big sources of AS for ADCs also include crit chance, but Xayah happens to be the one weird loner (how thematically apt) that focuses on AD-Crit builds instead of AS-Crit builds due to the strength of her abilities.

Handin Out NapsSep 28, 20171 votes

http://www.op.gg/champion/xayah/statistics/adc. Dont waste ur time using champion.gg. Also crit and as comes hand in hand.

It Hertz When IPSep 28, 20171 votes

A: Looking over OP.gg, none of the data there contradicts anything I said, or any of the data on champion.gg.

B: Seeing as how I literally said "The two DO go hand in hand, since the big sources of AS for ADCs also include crit chance", I get the strong feeling you didn't read anything I just said. Since you clearly aren't interested in actually having a discussion, have a wonderful day.

Handin Out NapsSep 28, 20171 votes

How the fuck does it not contradict anything you said when the doulbe zeal item builds are played just as much and have higher winrates? And the only reason why she wouldnt have to is because she already gets 50% as from her w. And if you are saying crit and as go hand in hand, what the fuck is your arguement? Lol what a waste of time.

P.s Attack speed alone does almost nothing. Your damage source is either on hit or crit, attack speed is already a given. And I said crit because the only adcs that go on hit are Kog and Kalista. While basically every other adc just uses crit.

BigPapaJSwagginsSep 28, 20171 votes

Yeah you're right, Janna shield being strong enough to negate a fed assassins burst is completely balanced. She shouldn't have to land any peeling abilities, the shield is all she should need.

It Hertz When IPSep 28, 20172 votes

Didn't say enchanter itemization was completely fine. I'm a support main, and I will be the first in line to demand Ardent be nerfed, because it's overpowered as fuck and I'm getting annoyed at having to build it every game or risk being at a disadvantage. But claiming that ADCs are perfectly fine is also wrong, and resorting to hyperbole isn't helping. I can assure you, if the enemy assassin is actually fed, Janna landing one shield is not going to singlehandedly save her ADC; we're talking landing a Q, shielding the ADC, and possibly ulting as well.

The issue is that right now hypercarry ADCs (read: High AS+Crit) are combining with some great options for lifesteal and an overpowered AS/On-Hit health drain support item that is crowding out other support choices; hence why Riot is already looking at Ardent. Just knee-jerk gutting Janna (or the other enchanters) isn't going to solve the problem. If you take them completely out, the next runner up is the tank supports, packing a decently large amount of CC. That assassin can at least make a stab (lul) at bursting through the shield; he/she CANNOT burst through Leona's CC Rotation Of Stuns. And have fun trying to burst the ADC when they get a 12% damage reduction item 3109 , or possibly 30% damage converted to DoT....

Would you look at that. We're right back to the last meta, where ALL the ADCs were ignoring silly amounts of damage because tanks were the meta support, and assassins were STILL frequently unsuccessful at taking down ADCs.

BigPapaJSwagginsSep 29, 20171 votes

Assassins are about creating mispositions or thriving on the chaos of a fight. Leo can q 1 person and e 1 person. If she uses it, assassin gimps the adc. However, Janna shield/lulu/karma shields apply to all incoming damage. Meaning it takes significantly less awareness to protect your adc.

Handin Out NapsSep 28, 20171 votes

I probably hurt some support mains precious little feelings, it happens often.

Karn BishopSep 28, 20175 votes

They need to just refactor defensive adc itemization so its an actual trade off and not both cake and icecream fused into one monstrosity.

THE RlVER KlNGSep 28, 20174 votes

honestly this meta is legit the worst. everything about it, from adcs to ardent to towers to rift herald to tanks to jungling is just horrendous. hopefully runes will be a breath of fresh air but who knows.

Meep ManSep 28, 20172 votes

Nah, I still think there have been far worse times. I mean, unless the enemy has a Janna and MAYBE a Lulu, I don't really notice the whole super shields thing ever since the Locket + Stoneplate combo was nerfed. In reality, people have simply learned due to Janna being FotM that having a solid team composition strategy is decent. When was the last time a meta was named after having a composition instead of a role? I don't recall that time.

BigPapaJSwagginsSep 28, 20171 votes

All S5? Jayce/Nid/Zyra/Varus(ez)(cait)/Corki and various other niche comps had names for them.

Meep ManSep 28, 20171 votes

What were the names besides just naming every good champion in the role? Because just playing every champion that has the best stats isn't what I'm talking about.

BigPapaJSwagginsSep 29, 20171 votes

Turn Comp, Siege Comp, Poke Comp, Unicorn Stampede (Hec Siv, Dive Picks) That was the emergence of comps, they had more generalized names at the time.

chipndip1Sep 29, 20171 votes

Turn and Unicorn Stampede are things I've never freaking heard of...and I was playing HEAVY during season 5.

BigPapaJSwagginsSep 29, 20171 votes

Turn comp was Zyra Supp, Jayce, and Ez/Varus with a good initatior top lane and strong diver jungle. It was completely based around jayce gating people out and then getting a big initiation turn around after cd's got baited then hard engaging. It took coordination and skill to pull off. Unicorn Stampede was just pretty much anytime a heavy dive comp had hec and siv on it.

SirsirSep 28, 20172 votes

I disagree with the severity of the shield meta toxicity compared to the juggernaut and assassin metas.

Truth be told the game has always been as you describe, except for like 1 or 2 golden months (since i started in S3). 1/5 or less of the champ pool are relevant, and theres a clearly superior strategy.

Karn BishopSep 30, 20171 votes

I disagree, in a juggernaut/assassin meta it pushes out certain outlier champions temporarily until riot rebalances them/items to end it, in an adc meta it pushes out anyone who cannot effectively boost an adc, kill them, or otherwise ensure that their adc gets ahead so in short it destroys and eliminates effective roster picks in a far larger cone then an jugg/assassin meta.

Oh i also almost forgot since adc are riots golden children they tend to ignore problems with the class / give compensation buffs for nerfs / revert nerfs that destroyed their winrates, now think about it how often does riot revert nerfs that destroy the winrates of junglers, juggernauts, and ap mages? if you answered anything besides almost never your full of crap and should be ashamed of yourself.

LichKing234Sep 27, 20171 votes

season 4 was the assassion meta as i rember it

TheSingularitySep 27, 201713 votes

S4 was the everything meta, in my memory the only time every class was just as important as the next. There were standout imbalance spikes throughout the season. Feral flare combined with udyr and yi is the only one that comes to mind.

Any position could carry, assassins indeed were present to deal with mages/marksman (think it was immobile adc year).

Assassins to wreck carries, tanks/supports to peel the fuck outta them, healing wasn't overbearing but just right for most champs (executioners wasn't mandatory to kill drain tanks), THE JUNGLE WAS FKEN GLORIOUS! ANYTHING YOU COULD THINK OF, WORKED AND WORKED WELL!

BigPapaJSwagginsSep 27, 20172 votes

That was the jangle meta bro. Junglers were the true carries that season.

Athenes LuluSep 28, 20172 votes

You forgot season 4 was when poke lanes were trashed because the only way to get towers was to kill opponents in lane.

And the horrors of Lulu solo lane replacing entire pools of toplane.

LichKing234Sep 28, 20172 votes

shit when janna mid and raka mid where viable midlaners

Succubús GFSep 28, 20172 votes

Good times. [sg-jinx]

Witch of BabylonSep 29, 20171 votes

TBH with the Janna changes Janna mid feels viable again

LichKing234Sep 30, 20171 votes

you mean again

Witch of BabylonSep 30, 20171 votes

SwiftKitten88Sep 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

S4 was the everything meta, in my memory the only time every class was just as important as the next. There were standout imbalance spikes throughout the season. Feral flare combined with udyr and yi is the only one that comes to mind.

Any position could carry, assassins indeed were present to deal with mages/marksman (think it was immobile adc year).

Assassins to wreck carries, tanks/supports to peel the fuck outta them, healing wasn't overbearing but just right for most champs (executioners wasn't mandatory to kill drain tanks), THE JUNGLE WAS FKEN GLORIOUS! ANYTHING YOU COULD THINK OF, WORKED AND WORKED WELL!

that's why it was the best season of all

XIII VanitasSep 28, 20171 votes

Tanks aren't OP. Tanks are picked because they are the only ones able to deal with the enemy adc + support or assist your adc + support.

The problem lies in all the enchanter supports and dps marksmen (not only in their kits, but also in their masteries and items).

BigPapaJSwagginsSep 28, 20171 votes

Adc kits feel good. Maybe with the exception of Ez, Quinn, and Kog. Kog for different reasons. However, the items they buy are a one direction itemization, and it's extremely strong.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 28, 20172 votes

Ofc tanks are op. They outright duel fighters and are unkillable for anyone except adcs who melt them in two seconds LOL. Also tanks don't even build tank items but support items and are still unkillable.

MizayaSep 28, 20171 votes

As far as competitive goes, there seems to be a lot of unique picks so far this worlds. I haven't played much solo q recently though so im not sure about that.

chipndip1Sep 29, 20171 votes

I mean, this is just play-ins, though. It's not REALLY worlds yet.

BigPapaJSwagginsSep 29, 20172 votes

Yeah there are a lot of outside regions that aren't as adapted to the meta. They play like delta fox with more coordination and less imaqtpie humor. So you see crazy picks, however if you notice those teams didn't make it through play-ins.

chipndip1Sep 29, 20171 votes

To be fair: A balanced and competitive team comp SHOULD have an initiator. You'd have to be smoking something GREAT for it to not.

BigPapaJSwagginsSep 29, 20171 votes

I disagree. It should be equally strong to play a kite and poke comp as it is to play a heavy init comp. As of right now, you get 3 shot by trist if you even try a poke comp. This meta is extremely 1 strat based. Meaning the itemization/champs that are strong are only strong in one fashion. There was a while there, not so much anymore, that if your team got gragas you won. Like that's insane to me. That's where we are with the j4/galio combo. It's hard to lose with that combo no your team. As well as lulu/twitch/kog or xayah/rakan. All these way too synergistic with kit and items. It's one thing to have a great kite and another thing to have a great kit and great item choices. Right now there are champs that are extremely fun to play that are just useless because the items/gameplay don't revolve around their style. Balancing needs to be based around not forcing these 2 tank 2 dps 1 enchanter comps. This isn't world of warcraft it's league. When you have this many champs in a game and the variety that are playable at top tier are this low, just kind of kills the satisfaction of playing for me.