The support conundrum: being shackled to the adc

Madjack01·Sep 19, 2017·88 votes·3,164 views

Supports have, through their kits and through itemization, an incredible amount of ways to boost their adcs. Which is great I guess, but on the other hand it feels like you are not very efficient as support unless you stick to your adc like glue (regardless of whether adcs are strong or not)

It seems to me that too many abilities and items are specifically tailored towards supporting adcs.

Why not add more items/abilities which shift the balance more towards the other roles? Like item abilities which scale with armor, increase cc duration inflicted by teammates, give melee attacks/abilities extra range, reduce the cd of basic abilities for a teammate for every ap ability that you and that teammate fired and that hit a target,...

These are just examples and are probably unbalanced, but you get my point.

As support I'd like to be able to make meaningful choices of whose job I would like to make easier. Right now it's mainly about keeping the adc alive.

Maybe this is a low elo issue or maybe I'm misinformed, I dunno.

Thoughts?

93 Comments

TyrekGoldenspearSep 19, 201737 votes

Personally I would like the idea of being able to support any carry on your team, not just the marksman.

Nothing against marksmen, but as somebody who plays support quite often, queuing up is often a dice roll as to whether your duo partner is autofilled, or even meshes well with your playstyle.

If we get camped hard or our marksman is otherwise toast, being able to switch my supporting abilities to support our Darius's effort to carry until our marksman can farm himself back into the game would be much appreciated.

OyddAWqJ5rSep 19, 20174 votes

Bard

KaeblenSep 19, 20174 votes

It's funny. Every time I play Bard and things seem to go Really well... its because I'm supporting mid lane or jg. Playing Bard to his maximum potential means you can't be babysitting all day long. Almost all adc demand a babysitter, but it's so much more useful (and satisfying) to roam and collect kills for other members of your team.

SalsonSep 19, 201713 votes

Support items should be tailored less for strengthening allies and more on playmaking.

They don't really do damage, which gives them a great power budget that can be used to make the best playmakers in the game. Examples: Thresh Bard Rakan .

Now they just need items that compliment that playstyle instead of 5 million shields.

SanKakUSep 19, 20173 votes

Try walking through the ultimate of Thresh or get hit a couple times by modern roaming Bard or simply right-clicked by Rakan potentially with Xayah chasing one of your allies nearby.

These supports make up for a lack of damage by healing and mitigating damage. I don't have a strong opinion about what support items should do, but I am not currently impressed with item 3096 despite the meta sheep buying it. I also don't share the all too common opinion that 'most supports' can't buy item 3302 to help out.

Champions that are currently strong and feel bad to play against like Jhin Tristana Twitch or whoever aren't so bad once you pick up item 3302 for more healing. The problem arises when people see someone like Blitzcrank come to lane and take the first two minions, when both champions are 100 percent health and the income item is viewed as useless from then on out. Don't get me wrong, in particular is in a bad spot, but Rakan Nami Morgana Lux Janna and more have the tools to reliably trigger the income item's heal.

SalsonSep 19, 20173 votes

I'll be honest, me neither. I don't actually main bot.

What I do believe though, is that they should reward active play like the 3 I mentioned, because currently reactive play with 5 items made to heal and shield is pushing us into a really annoying metagame.

chipndip1Sep 19, 20172 votes

...so...catchers? We need catcher-centric items?

SalsonSep 19, 20171 votes

Well yeah, but also items that allow Enchanters to take Catcher like attributes.

Athene's comes to mind, where it rewards action, rather than saving all your cooldowns to ruin someone's day.

Ideas though, are beyond me. Can't blame Rito for everything huh.

chipndip1Sep 19, 20175 votes

Athene's isn't a catcher-centric item, nor does it have catcher attributes. The issue with enchanters using spells on offense to use Athene's is that they do no damage to stack Athene's with in most scenarios, save Sona and Karma. Sona's hardly ever in the spotlight when there isn't a major balancing concern, and Karma has been intentionally ran into the dirt because she was a huge balancing concern (in pro play) since she's just a massive, walking shield bot.

Catcher-centric itemization would probably focus on movement speed, with ap or resistances added depending on the champ.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERSep 19, 20177 votes

Supports aren't directly tied to their ADCs, champions like Alistar, Braum Leona, Bard etc don't need their ADCs to do other things on the map, and can easily make plays and start fights on their own without their ADCs.

Enchanters however need a carry, they're just there to buff allies and save whomever, they have good utility which is traded off for damage, their items is generally is what's too intertwined with ADCs for example Ardent only benefits ADCs and not any one else really except a Yasuo or Tryndamere, versus Redemption that's more team oriented.

Madjack01Sep 19, 20171 votes

I understand your point and naturally, things aren't as black and white as my post made it look. However, I think the issue I was addressing goes beyond enchanters due to itemization favoring, at least in my opinion, adcs. You can also look at it another way: I believe that the other roles in general profit much less from having a good suppport than the adc does.

The Yetii RiderSep 19, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I understand your point and naturally, things aren't as black and white as my post made it look. However, I think the issue I was addressing goes beyond enchanters due to itemization favoring, at least in my opinion, adcs. You can also look at it another way: I believe that the other roles in general profit much less from having a good suppport than the adc does.

We had support itemization that favored mages. Zeke's Herald. Gave both partners 20% AP when it activated. No one bought it.

DessemSep 20, 20171 votes

More because the stats on the item were shit and other items were plain better. I used to buy it whenever AP Mid was going strong, but getting it to activate right before a burst mage's combo was hard.

At least ADCs didn't care when it activated because flatline DPS, but it was still an unreliable buff for solo play.

The Yetii RiderSep 20, 20171 votes

Supports should be the class that cares least about stats, and stats on an item that gives a power spike should be the worst. The stats you cared about were the 20% bonus AP for both champions. That alone was worth a shit ton of gold.

But this is the point: a strong buff for non-AD allies existed and supports ignored it because they were more concerned with consistent selfish power than with a powerful buff effect. That's the same for every player. They want to feel like they've grown stronger when they buy items.

Also at present we have item 3001 , which is an item supports can take to buff mages and assassins, and even tanks.

DessemSep 20, 20171 votes

Was also hard to appreciate, and annoying to trigger properly.

VoidStaresBackSep 21, 20171 votes

Zeke's herald was also a buff for marksmen (AS buff) and was not bought because it was unreliable and required neither party to act once it was charged or else it would go off before the teamfight. This was especially problematic for mages who are a primary source of waveclear and would constantly have it go off early just doing their jobs.

ProfDrDeathSep 20, 20171 votes

item 3504 generally benefits auto-attackers, though. Not just ADCs and Yasuo/Tryndamere.

Also liking Ardent Censer: Aatrox Azir (partially) Camille Evelynn Fiora Irelia Jax Kled MasterYi Nocturne Olaf RekSai Renekton Shyvana Skarner Trundle TwistedFate Udyr Volibear Warwick MonkeyKing XinZhao Zed (if it allows him to get another attack during ult especially)

LXIISep 19, 20177 votes

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Ardent the only thing that's better used on the ADC than pretty much everyone else? Your shields on everyone else are just as shieldy. Your heals are just as healy. And if you're playing anything that isn't an enchanter everything you do benefits the whole team equally.

Braum can back up a Riven just as well as he can back up a Twitch. Ardent Janna however is slightly less effective helping other allies because they can't fully utilize her Ardent.

SniperkajSep 19, 20171 votes

You are right, but the slightly less effective janna is a vast understatement. Is she shields a mage, he gets a shield. If she shields and ADC, he also get a massive AD, onhit, atkspeed and lifesteal. That is iirc 4800 gold value total, which is so much more than slightly more effective

LXIISep 20, 20171 votes

The slightly comment was mostly meant for when you're shielding someone who needs to be shielded to live, rather than the current "shield adc on cd to buff the hell out of them". If both are running for their lives it's pretty equal, if you're shielding them while nobody is trying to kill them then yeah it's a huge difference on the AD. But you are right, in some scenarios like the one we just talked about it's a huge difference between AD and everyone else.

The main point stands though, Ardent is the main thing forcing enchanters to stay glued to the ADC.

NekoniClawsSep 19, 20175 votes

Honestly I don't feel shackled myself. You're not stuck with your adc. Your adc is stuck with you (if they want to live)

But maybe I don't feel trapped because I work with aggressive, front-line, engage orientated supports. Frontlining and engage are jobs you do for your entire team. That and I care more about having fun than playing the most OP support + item. With a good frontline you lock down the threats to your adc rather than having to reactively peel them off. You can be the first one in to make picks in the botside jungle with your jungler. You can make aggressive wards in botside which helps your entire team, and keeps your adc safe while you roam. And you can easily roam a couple times during laning phase and gank mid (CC on their opponent lets most midlaners execute their kill-combo). Only exception is if you're being camped- but any lane that's being camped is stopped from roaming.

Dextix LTSep 19, 20171 votes

You would have a point of this was season 4-5. When assasins were actually a thing.

Currently, an adc can just solo with no repercussions, they are not stuck with us as they themselves now have great defensive options, burst and even lifesteal to keep themselves up.

Some supports are not shackled, but many are, why would you directly gimp yourself by not supporting the most op class?

NekoniClawsSep 19, 20174 votes

Some of us have a lot of our skill expression in macro and playmaking and tend to be better on that kind of champion anyway, so playing the OP champs gimps us if they don't match our playstyle (also winning/elo isn't everything to a lot of us, I'd rather just have fun)

My support style's season 6+7 by the way- I'm not oldschool enough to have old habits.

Dextix LTSep 19, 20171 votes

It is not about playing an op champ, it is about supporting one, and whether we like it or not, currently supports are specifically tuned to be the adcs bitch. Not only enchanters, tanks too.

If you do not support an adc fully, you are gimping yourself just because of how strong supporting adcs is when compared to other classes.

NekoniClawsSep 19, 20172 votes

Well I'm not sure what your point is. By virtue of low elo, I'm sure I'm playing less efficiently than I could. 100% guaranteed lol.

I am however, personally sure that I (and the majority of my team- no trolling) enjoy how I play, and that's what matters to me.

SpecterVonBarenSep 19, 20175 votes

I think they could make more support abilities Adaptive and have them do different things to their target depending on if they have more bonus AP or AD.

Ariel the CruelSep 19, 20174 votes

I'm just going to re-post this since it appears to have some relevance.

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VqQee7Nz,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2017-09-14T07:07:11.313+0000)

Support (role) aids the team just as much as any individual. Their job is to not be awesome so everyone else can soak up as much glory as possible. It's a result of insufficient income streams. That's why they buy all the team utility items and get no CS. The only reason they go with ADC is for income optimization. ADC's are the least level dependent, so they get the support. ADC's are more than capable of surviving in a solo lane though.

Support itemization is the same way. Effect doesn't discriminate. Best on ADC's (as opposed to other squishies) because they have the game's highest damage out-put (more healing for the builder). Shields everyone equally based on the user's bonus health. The CC removal benefit everyone equally. Except maybe Olaf. Doesn't get built. Heals everyone equally. Doesn't interact with allies. "Allied basic attack burns" don't stack; the duration refreshes. So attacking more than once every 2 seconds accomplishes nothing. Meaning that Raw AD is the only important factor on that part; crit and AS don't help (if I interpret it correctly; Riot is a tad ambiguous on this one). Like Zeke's, the healing doesn't stack; so high AS doesn't matter. This is the only item that does disproportionately favor ADC though, because the bonus AS benefits their raw AD and Crit. Except for Yasuo and Trynd, no one else really builds crit. MS bonus doesn't discriminate. Shield active benefit everyone equally. Doesn't interact with allies. (I'm probably missing something.)

Support champions also have mostly agnostic kits. (Can even us abilities on the front and back line simultaneously!) (Q favors ranged champions for ease of application) (E favors ranged champions for ease of application) (Biased towards Xayah by design) Passive favors ranged champions for ease of stacking. But allies don't directly benefit from anything in his kit. Shield favors ADC's because it benefit their high AS and crit. W AS bonus favors ADC's because it benefits their AD and crit. Interestingly, release Lulu also gave out bonus AP. But the AS and AP buffs were lost in the war against top lane Lulu. The AS came back as an effort to incentivize her to go back there.

The only reason supports get lumped into the mix is because people fail to distinguish between "core" and "meta" problems. Meta dictates that supports build items to benefit allies. Meta dictates that supports lane with ADC. Meta dictates that ADC's build glass cannon. Meta dictates that supports use their items/abilities so their lane partner can go glass cannon.

When you look at things in a vacuum, there's very little supporting that disproportionately favors ADC's over anyone else.

DragonSheaSep 19, 20174 votes

Yea, supports should be champs that bring utility to the team and back them up with that. Not to be an addon to ADC's

xelakerSep 19, 20174 votes

what are you guys smoking? supports can help anyone on the team. shields, heals, and cc universally help everyone out... not to mention hard cc and damage oriented supports like brand, zyra, or malz. The only reason that there are items designed more towards the adc is because the support goes bot with the adc... why, as a support would I buy items for helping top lane if I'm down here at bot.

EROTIC RAID BOSSSep 19, 20173 votes

huh surely you can build zekes or knights vow? they can be good on adcs but they can be good on other champions too. redemption is also helpful to your whole team

SniperkajSep 19, 20172 votes

I have also thought a lot about that. When im doing well as a midlaner, it would be nice if the support could buff me up somehow, by for example making me able to oneshot the enemy ADC even through shields - provided i hit my abilities.

SnakDatSmilesBakSep 19, 20172 votes

What about morgana e or taric ult? I can't think of ways they can make you deal more damage but I can think of ways they can buff you.

SniperkajSep 19, 20172 votes

Yeah they can shield and peel for me, but they can do the same to the adc AND he gets extra damage/lifesteal/ect on top of that. That is special treatment there is no reason for them to have, and make them overbearing.

For example, why not make Jannas shield grant adaptive AD or AP (whatever u have most of)? Or have an item like ardent censor, but for AP or for tanks?

Devilreaper XIIISep 19, 20172 votes

your job is not to keep the marksman/adc alive O.o your job is to maintain bottom lane, and meet objectives (destroy towers and drake)

a support comes in many shapes, i prefer to throw away my 1 support item (ward gold income in one) and go full mage mid/end game XD

you do have some choises as to how you play as support.

1 mage/fighter = burst damage or dps poke, and fast objectives met. (bully) 2 tank = block damage, sustain and keep marksman/adc in lane longer. (guardian) 3 healer = keep marksmans/adc alive, sustain and buff for early roam. (buffer) 4 crowd controller = preventive and passive or passive assertive play to counter flanks.(skirmisher)

Linna ExcelSep 19, 20172 votes

Supports are only tied to the ADC in the early game. Once you get into mid-game your focus is on whoever is carrying your team.

l Joe Rogan lSep 19, 20172 votes

Taric has a heal and shield that scales with the target's max HP, meaning they are larger shields and heals on tanks or bruisers. Also, Ivern is a recent example of a new support that is more effective with melee carries... the dash-to-target on Ivern's Q is super useful for melee carries since they can save their gap closers for defense or the following chase, and Ivern's shield damages and slows enemies around the shielded target, meaning low-range or melee carries can make use of the damage and slow while ADC's will sometimes not be close enough to hit any enemies with the shield explosion.

I love the idea of bruiser/mage supports, I.E. supports to help aid bruisers and mages.

Examples would be giving free gap closers for melee carries like Ivern, max-HP scaling shields or heals for bruisers and tanks, removing magic resistances for mages, some sort of gate/portal that causes projectiles to have increased range or more damage (for mages mostly, but obviously benefits everyone with a projectile), etc.

kurthl33tSep 19, 20172 votes

Well they did just add Brittle to the game with Orrn, so maybe we'll start seeing them play with that.

NielarkenSep 19, 20172 votes

Again bring back soraka's mana restoring and armor buffs. Bring back lulu's ability to give ap to others. Bring back useful aura items. Bring back team buffing abilities like taric old armor and ultamate buffs.

SweedishGunnerSep 19, 20172 votes

Something to let supports enable APC's would be good.

WDG DevourSep 19, 20172 votes

Nobody wants to see mages in the botlane laning with supports... it makes for bad gameplay. Even when ZIggs was botlane it wasn't good for the meta.

RenownedWheat42Sep 19, 20172 votes

Not NOBODY, really. I like to see it.

SweedishGunnerSep 20, 20171 votes

I don't necessarily mean laning with the supports. Just something that allows the support to help an AP champ if they're the one who needs more support (I.e they're carrying).

RenownedWheat42Sep 19, 20172 votes

You can still roam as a support, you don't have to JUST stay by the ADC. When I can, I roam with my jg or move up to help mid. I've had games where I've played with an Azir or Cass bot instead of a typical ADC, and they went well. These are definitely doable, and I'm not sure why you think they're not.

I've thrown an enemy midlaner into my team's mid tower plenty of times with Ali flash + W from fog. Had plenty of hop ults with Braum, EWs with Rakan, etc. You just gotta be proactive and make things happen.

KaeblenSep 19, 20172 votes

We could do something crazy, like make someone's Shield ability scale with the target's max health. (Support Tank/Bruiser)

Or we could make Janna 's Shield give increased % damage dealt, rather than bonus AD. (support Mages)

TyrekGoldenspearSep 19, 20172 votes

Funny thing.

That shield you described is how Tarics shield works.

PrimaquariusSep 19, 20172 votes

Bard Whats this ADC you speak of?

MitchelsonSep 19, 20172 votes

Roaming well and knowing when your adc is not the most important place for you to be or is just bad will help you alleviate this feeling and win more games : )

Athenes LuluSep 19, 20172 votes

If anything, it's ADCs that are much more bound to their supports because we supports can be alone out in the wild, and get out alive should we get caught. ADCs can't and almost always needs an escort. Should the ADC feed and become useless at any point in the game, we have a lot of freedom to go help the other teammates that will be winning games for us, not just ADCs.

That has long been a thing ever since season 4, where supports are no longer merely ward bots, thus can go off on their own to support whatever they desire with a t3 gold item.

Then that changed when a wide array of support itemization were changed in favor of ADCs: item 3504 item 3109 item 3050 namely those.

All this coming from a support main since season 3.

Yara0Sep 20, 20172 votes

I really wanna see bards ult be combined with Ryzes So when you use your ult You also go with it i think it would make his already unique kit even more fun to play.

DemainaNyxSep 21, 20171 votes

The ADC is generally the one who carries the game, hence the name.

That said though, if you have a top lane Riven that's like 10/1 to your ADCs 0/3, there's nothing wrong with you sorta moving to help your top laner carry. Yeah, Ardent might not help your Riven as much as it would your Tristana, but it isn't completely useless. Tell your AP mage to auto attack the minions while you shield them and they still benefit from the on hit life drain.

Still items like Redemption, Locket, Athene's, and Knight's Vow works for anyone.