The league system doesn't make sense.

sonics shadow·Jan 1, 2018·2 votes·805 views

The league system needs to be reworked. How does it make sense to move up by getting win streaks if the developers are designing the matching system to stop such things. It doesn't make sense that the league system is only based on wins or loses. It needs to be based on other things, either instead of in addition to. You shouldn't be docked points for a loss if you are a good player during the match meaning you have a positive score i.e. 8/3/16. There is no way to move out of bronze because it is just the place where all the trolls wind up and you cant get a win streak because the matching system matches you with less skilled payers so you can "bring them up with you." it is not a smart way to do that. it should put skill level with equal skill level against equal skill level.

23 Comments

KilanostJan 1, 20183 votes

There is a difference between being good at getting a decent KDA and being good at winning games. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing some changes that might take some of the grind out of climbing.

sonics shadowJan 3, 20181 votes

you cant grind to climb that's the thing the system makes it so you cant get win streaks.

YokoNomiJan 1, 20181 votes

I mean we could. But you're asking them to install a Willy Wonka elevator in a system that probably has absolutely no means of handling something like that. In a perfect world maybe.

{quoted}

There is a difference between being good at getting a decent KDA and being good at winning games. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing some changes that might take some of the grind out of climbing.

Adding this after my initial post of course, but also this. The player's scores only play a part of what wins the game, since it's all about objectives in the end. I've had kills in the 20's before, and still lost due to fighting people who simply had a better hand than what I could deal. They had more team power and objectives. It simply is what it is.

AimléssJan 1, 20181 votes

The problem is if you want to climb out of an elo where your are only slightly better than, for example being silver level in bronze then you may need 500+ games to get there with this current system. However, if you're gold level you'll soar out of there. This is bad because players can never become gold level if they're stuck in bronze because bronze is so bad they barely improve. You shouldn't gain LP for having a good game and losing, but you should be gaining MMR based on good games and bad games, not wins and loses.

KilanostJan 1, 20181 votes

Heres the essence of the problem in doing that:

The metrics the game would use to evaluate a player wouldn't necessarily convey their contribution. Use warding as an example. Theres a big difference between a well placed ward and a shitty ward. A well placed ward will secure a sneaky baron, or let you get a game winning pick. A shitty ward will just give the enemy support 30 gold and likely show you nothing. However, as far as the game is concerned. A ward is a ward is a ward is a ward.

To the extreme of this argument, i put forth Tryndamere . You can have a shit KDA on this champion, never group, never leave lane, never ward, yet you can still solo carry a game. Should this player, who the game's analytics would say played poorly, get less LP for his win?

This is, in essence, the problem with what we want. In a perfect world, we'd be able to quantify all these variables and use it to scale LP for wins and losses appropriately. Unfortunately, its just impossible to do well.

AimléssJan 1, 20181 votes

All you have to do is rework the system so damage to structures is properly represented. You could even judge vision score by how many people your ward caught sight of. You try to poke flaws in my system when the current one is far more flawed. Why should I lose games to afks and feeders and drop my skill rating when they're the ones that should be dropping. That's as bad as the Tryndamere scenario is it not?

And besides, there are ways to split push without having an abysmal KDA, if your KDA is 6/7/7 and your farm is good you've rekt 6 towers then you deserve an S. But if you KDA is 2/9/2 and you took down towers then no, you were feeding, that's not an S. Maybe a B if you really got a lot of towers but still. C'mon people, KDA isn't everything but it matters somewhat.You're not helping your team much splitpushing if you're giving back as much gold as you're gaining from the towers.

KilanostJan 1, 20181 votes

I'm in no way saying that the theory of this is bad. I've thought of it myself as has probably every single person who has tried climbing. What I'm saying is that, in practice, theres too much you can miss and, at the other end of the spectrum, too much opportunity for abuse if someone just plays to the algorithm. If you're playing a tank and you decide the game is over, you can just start suiciding to get damage taken and decrease the LP you lose. Or you can just repeatedly execute yourself to put damage on turrets. You can spam teemo because his shrooms will put your damage against champions through the roof. You can sell one of your items when ur not playing support just to buy a sight stone and run around the map dropping wards. You get the idea.

And I'm not saying you can't split push and have a good KDA, i'm just saying you don't need to have a good KDA to have a high impact. You can go 0/10 and win the game for your team splitting. after a certain point, you're not really worth gold and you're going to keep the enemy laner you feed in the lane protecting the turret anyway. This is especially true if you know you're just going to completely out scale the opposing enemy laner.

Also, if you want to climb, just spam Lux. You had a 59% win rate on her last season. Why play anything else?

AimléssJan 1, 20181 votes

Lol I already climbed from B2 to P4 last season, I'm fine. What you need to understand is that there are just as many flaws in this system as the one I'm proposing, actually there's more. A guy putting down a ton of wards for a little boost to his MMR is nothing compared to a guy inting cause his mid laner stole one raptor while leashing (Yes this happened to me), robbing all 5 of us of LP and MMR. Nothing's perfect but at least those wards are helping us out in a way. The current system is just plain trash.

sonics shadowJan 3, 20181 votes

but the point is that the system is based on win streaks. if it was based on skill i would be out of b5. but i am stuck there because there are trolls and people that just cant play the game. 98% other lanes in my game feed.

ChargeItDownMidJan 1, 20181 votes

[deleted]

sonics shadowJan 4, 20181 votes

you just said that it the matching system is making it so you win 50% of games. that in essence stops win steaks. you cant climb if you don't have win streaks and no losing streaks. it is a dumb system to make it so all it is just win streaks to move up. In terms of assessing skill level, it would be based on things that matter. such as time spent with team during fights, tower take downs or help, not just damaging them. your own score compared to your teams and your enemy. But since it is weighed with your team for those that feed they get docked. but the ones that don't feed don't get docked as much or not at all depending on their other attributes. same goes for the other end. if someone gets feed on their team but the rest of their team is feeding then they don't get docked, just the feeders.

on top of the new scoring system, there needs to be banning of people from playing ranked games if their win rate is below 45% and their other scores, (towers, helping team, ect) reflect that they are consistently bad then they get banned for the season. then next season they start again. But they will only be banned if they are consistently bad.

That kind of system where the players that shouldn't be playing ranked in the first place are weeded out, and then the good players can actually play a game where there isn't a troll or someone that is afk because they don't have the internet or computer to play league. the banning would get rid of those that don't have such things necessary to play a ranked game on a even playing field. it would be ok for the system to be 50% win rate if you don't have to just get wins to move up. Wins help not decide.

sonics shadowJan 4, 20181 votes

i wish there was a way to get the developers to comment here.

SubdueJan 4, 20181 votes

There are Elo Boosting services - People who EARN MONEY to carry accounts up. Their very existence is proof that this thread and all like it are hogwash.

sonics shadowJan 15, 20181 votes

im not going to pay someone to steal my acc. Even if they didnt steal it i still dont want to pay money for it. They just need to fix the system so ppl like me are stuck in bronze for being placed there one time. I will never leave bronze because the system placed me there and it is impossible to get out.

SubdueJan 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=sonics shadow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA5ELHX5,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-01-15T15:59:31.410+0000)

im not going to pay someone to steal my acc. Even if they didnt steal it i still dont want to pay money for it. They just need to fix the system so ppl like me are stuck in bronze for being placed there one time. I will never leave bronze because the system placed me there and it is impossible to get out.

My point wasn't that you should pay for an Elo Boosting service... My point was that the very fact that such services exist is proof that it's possible to climb, especially out of Bronze.

How can it be possible if people do it quickly and efficiently enough to make money off of it?

And to put this into perspective, I googled "Elo Boosting Service" and checked the first one I saw for pricing. Bronze V to Gold V costs $183. If you imagine they want to be paid something obnoxiously low like $5 per hour, that's about 72 games to get from the very bottom of Bronze into Gold. Chances are though, their rate is something closer to $8 or $9, so it's even fewer games.

Does that mean YOU can do that? Probably not. Those players are probably far better than you. However, it's evidence that skill does correspond to upward movement, and if you're stuck in Bronze, it's because your skill is Bronze level, not because the system is somehow cheating you.

sonics shadowJan 24, 20181 votes

then explain why every game i get every lane feeds the other team with out fail. every person on my team just cant play.

SubdueJan 24, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=sonics shadow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA5ELHX5,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-24T00:06:04.136+0000)

then explain why every game i get every lane feeds the other team with out fail. every person on my team just cant play.

Well that's easy. Sometimes you feed too. And somewhere out there someone is making a thread about how shitty it was to have sonics shadow as a teammate.

https://i.imgur.com/EChyYSA.png

sonics shadowJan 31, 20181 votes

if i remember that game correctly, i didnt feed. i couldnt get a kill on varus, but i died later on in the game. 98% of the time i dont feed during laining phase.

OxyrottenJan 4, 20181 votes

It would be too abusable. You could too easily exploit the system by farming kda or padding stats. Which is contradictory to winning games (or at least is supposed to be, maybe not in this meta).

sonics shadowJan 15, 20181 votes

For those that said you dont need a winning streak to rank up you are wrong. You need one in order to get better lp. If you lose one game then all the progress you mad is ruined. the league system is entirely based on win streaks.

sonics shadowJan 15, 20181 votes

"PLACEMENTS Everyone starts off each new ranked season without a rank. The first ten games you play in each queue will place you in a tier and division for that queue. Where you land is based on the outcome of these games, the difficulty of the opponents you faced in these games, and your rank from the previous season and preseason. All players undergo a ‘soft reset’ at the beginning of each season, so your new rank will likely be lower than it was at the end of the previous season. You can read more about preseason here." -League system FAQ